Gay, Christian, Cake Baking, Muslim, Mormon, Motorcycle Cops... Oh My!

[california boy]

Apples and tomatoes, maybe. Any person hired as a cashier would have to be blatantly obtuse to think that he would never be asked to handle pork at some time as pork is offered for sale in almost every market in the US. Perhaps he just came off the boat and had only been in the States for 3 days and had been a cashier only in Saudi Arabia previously. Right, that definitely was the situation.

   The policeman was in a somewhat different situation. Was the motorcycle troop a required part of the job or was it a voluntary signup? If the Westboro Baptist bunch organized a parade with their usual theme and the Police Chief approved a motorcycle escort ( why, one can't imagine) which was expected to do fancy maneuvers at the front of the parade, I wonder if there would be any officers objecting / refusing to do it. Who in the community would castigate any officer who so objected? Would the gay activists complain that such objectors  are not fulfilling their civic duty? Methinks not.

 

 

The motorcycle group is a volunteered position on the police force.  SLC gay pride parades have been going on since 1998.  Police officers are required to ride for Westboro Baptist Church or whatever parade when that service is asked of them.  Part of the duties of the motorcycle cycle squad's job is to perform maneuvers for parades.  Does that change your view?

[KevinG]

The motorcycle group is a volunteered position on the police force.  SLC gay pride parades have been going on since 1998.  Police officers are required to ride for Westboro Baptist Church or whatever parade when that service is asked of them.  Part of the duties of the motorcycle cycle squad's job is to perform maneuvers for parades.  Does that change your view?

 

Part of the Costco employees duties were to scan customer's purchases at the register.  Pork is an item Costco carried prior to his application and hiring.  He was not dismissed but moved to other duties when he refused to scan the pork.  He is now suing the grocer for discrimination.

 

Does that change your view?  (And what is your view - since you haven't shared it yet?)

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Elected legislators passed laws saying you had to cover those issues.

 

Some one once said something out being a representative republic and not a majority rule, which is the reason for the courts? I am sure you have the same feeling on states that banned ssm?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[california boy]

Part of the Costco employees duties were to scan customer's purchases at the register.  Pork is an item Costco carried prior to his application and hiring.  He was not dismissed but moved to other duties when he refused to scan the pork.  He is now suing the grocer for discrimination.

 

Does that change your view?  (And what is your view - since you haven't shared it yet?)

 

Sounds like both employees were asked to perform their duties and both decided not to because of their religious beliefs.  Looks the same to me.

 

I think that every employee has a right to quit his job if he feels he is asked to do something against his religious convictions.  An employee does not have the right to dictate to his employer what assignments he will do and will not do without the very real possibility that they may be fired for not performing those duties.  In my career, I have been asked from time to time to do something that I didn't want to do.  And from time to time, have refused to do the work.  In doing so, I was fully prepared to be fired for that decision.  Fortunately enough, the company valued me as an employee to let me turn down the assignment and give it to someone else.  Had they chosen to fire me, I would have held no grievance towards them. It was my choice to turn down the assignment.  

 

As far as both of these cases, I prefer to only look at the facts that have been reported and not make any judgement on either one because I fully believe that not ALL of the facts are being reported.  There may be more to the Costco employee's case than just being reassigned different duties.  A court will sort this out hopefully using all of the facts.  That is what the courts are for, not the newspapers.

[JLHPROF]

Sounds like both employees were asked to perform their duties and both decided not to because of their religious beliefs.  Looks the same to me.

 

I agree with this.  Although there seems to be some ambiguity as to whether the cop was being asked to escort/provide security for the parade (his job) or to ride in the parade (not his job).

The checker has no such ambiguity about his job duties.

[california boy]

I agree with this.  Although there seems to be some ambiguity as to whether the cop was being asked to escort/provide security for the parade (his job) or to ride in the parade (not his job).

The checker has no such ambiguity about his job duties.

I agree there is a little quibbling between the two situations.  But if the motorcycle squad that he volunteered to join routinely does manovers for parades, it becomes pretty much the same situation.

[sethpayne]

Part of the Costco employees duties were to scan customer's purchases at the register.  Pork is an item Costco carried prior to his application and hiring.  He was not dismissed but moved to other duties when he refused to scan the pork.  He is now suing the grocer for discrimination.

 

Does that change your view?  (And what is your view - since you haven't shared it yet?)

 

the officer was not fired.  He quit without exhausting any of his appeal options.

[Brian 2.0]

A Muslim, a Christian, and a Mormon cop walk into a bar...

[JLHPROF]

A Muslim, a Christian, and a Mormon cop walk into a bar...

 

The Christian looks at the Muslim and the Mormon and says "What are you two doing in a bar?"

They answered:

 

...anyone got a punchline?

[teddyaware]

The Christian looks at the Muslim and the Mormon and says "What are you two doing in a bar?"

They answered:

 

...anyone got a punchline?

 

I provided what I thought was a perfect and very funny punchline. In fact, I laughed myself silly. But then when I took some time to really think about it, I realized there are many who would not think it's so funny. If you want to know what it is, contact me privately by the email address you'll find in my profile.

Edited March 5, 2015 by teddyaware

[KevinG]

the officer was not fired.  He quit without exhausting any of his appeal options.

 

Replace dismissed with suspended if it helps.  

[KevinG]

That is what the courts are for, not the newspapers.

 

Thanks.  I agree that neither employee has much of a case.  I also think there is a lot of overreacting on the part of more than one party to these situations.

 

As far as being tried in the courts.  That would take all the fun out of blogging!  

[Daniel2]

The motorcycle group is a volunteered position on the police force. SLC gay pride parades have been going on since 1998. Police officers are required to ride for Westboro Baptist Church or whatever parade when that service is asked of them. Part of the duties of the motorcycle cycle squad's job is to perform maneuvers for parades. Does that change your view?

Well said, CB.

[Ahab]

Compare and contrast:

1) The LDS Officer wanting a non-ceremonial assignment for the SLC Gay Parade being put on probation.

2) A bakery being sued because they refused to bake a cake for a "gay wedding".

3) A Hobby shop suing for the right to deny funding for medical procedures/products they feel are not moral.

4) A Muslim man refusing to handle pork at his cash register suing Costco because he was reassigned to gather shopping carts.

http://7online.com/religion/former-employee-suing-costco-for-religious-discrimination-/532866/

Tuesday, February 24, 2015

NEW YORK (WABC) -- A man is suing Costco for religious discrimination.

He tells Eyewitness News exclusively that when he refused to work with pork, the major retailer sent him outside to gather carts...

Is it even possible to be consistent in the application of civil liberties, freedom of association, and religious rights across this diverse yet similar set of issues?

Simple solution: don't assume anything.

Basic contract law would fix most of our problems.

1. The policeman should have worked out an agreement with his employer that would have exempted him from certain kinds of work with his employer/rep still choosing to hire him for the work he was willing to do.

2. No agreement to bake a cake for a gay wedding, no expectation that the baker would.

3. No agreement to pay for specific benefits, no expectation they would be paid for.

4. No agreement that the cashier would be able to refuse to sell/ring up certain products while selling/ringing up only whatever he wanted to sell/ring up, no expectation that he would be able to choose his own transactions.

Employers and employees simply need to come to an agreement about what is expected and what will or will not be tolerated. Communication is key. Don't assume anything.

[Ahab]

I've already lost faith in humanity. Bring on the 2nd coming.

I have faith that there are all kinds of people in society. Some good, some bad. Some highly intelligent, some very stupid. Some Christians, some not, or not very good Christians. All kinds of people. To think all are the same is to think what is not true.

[strappinglad]

I agree that there is more to the cop story than we have been told, like who told whom what and when and were there orders issued or requests made etc. However I am still 85 % certain +/- 3% 19 times out of 20 ,, that if the SLC motorcycle corps were ordered to escort a Westboro or KKK parade, those doing so would object to doing circles, figure eights, loop de loops or whatever at the front of the procession and would ride slowly and stoically so as to not give the impression that they were part of the show and somehow approved of the message.

Edited March 6, 2015 by strappinglad

[tonie]

The Christian looks at the Muslim and the Mormon and says "What are you two doing in a bar?"

They answered:

 

...anyone got a punchline?

 

 

They Answered:

 

Its Utah beer, so it is really just water.

[strappinglad]

The Mormon answered, " I'm just here for the pork rinds and he is here for the coffee."

[Brian 2.0]

I have faith that there are all kinds of people in society. Some good, some bad. Some highly intelligent, some very stupid. Some Christians, some not, or not very good Christians. All kinds of people. To think all are the same is to think what is not true.

Is that really faith in anything?

I have faith that the sun will or won't come up tomorrow.

[JLHPROF]

Is that really faith in anything?

I have faith that the sun will or won't come up tomorrow.

 

No, that's called "hedging your bets", not to mention "creating self-fulfilling prophecy".

Edited March 6, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Ahab]

Faith is simply to be sure about something, usually based on somebody else's assurance. And getting an assurance from our Father is usually the assurance we holy men prefer.

So yes the fact that I am sure about some things regarding people in general is a measure of faith that I have regarding people in general. I am sure that some people are good and some other people are bad, generally. And my Father gives me his assurance that that is true pretty much every day.

[williamsmith]

WOW!

 

Next time quote the full statement, and bold the part you think "wow" about, so there is context please.

 

But as to the wow, what's so wow about it?

The guy takes a job where he knows pork is sold, and he will have to scan it.

He then complains, so he is given another job that is available to give so he doesn't have to touch pork.

He then complains about the downgrade, but there is the saying that beggers can't be choosers.

He then proceeds to sue the store when he's the one who created the initial problem, and continued to create problems.

 

So, what part of that story doesn't scream entitled spoiled slimeball to you?

It's like, I take a job in a Porn store, I then complain that I have to sale porn, so the porn store gives me the janitor position, so I complain about the downgrade and then sue the porn store.

What part of that is me not being an entitled donkey that belongs digging ditches the rest of his life away from humanity?

Low moral human beings should be classified as such, not respected in any way.

[Ahab]

Next time quote the full statement, and bold the part you think "wow" about, so there is context please.

But as to the wow, what's so wow about it?

The guy takes a job where he knows pork is sold, and he will have to scan it.

He then complains, so he is given another job that is available to give so he doesn't have to touch pork.

He then complains about the downgrade, but there is the saying that beggers can't be choosers.

He then proceeds to sue the store when he's the one who created the initial problem, and continued to create problems.

I highly doubt that the cash register guy sees things as you do. A lot of people just don't follow through to think about all of the ramifications of their decisions so it's likely that when he accepted the job as a cashier that he just didn't realize he would have to sell pork to others. Not smart, no, but I wouldn't say the guy has no morals.

Low moral human beings should be classified as such, not respected in any way.

It can be fun to be nice to people even when they have low morals. Not that you have to highly esteem them or what they do when they show that they have low moral standards. Just being nice is a way to show some kind of respect for someone even if only because they are the same kind of being you are.