Damien the Leper Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Authentic spirituality is riddled with doubt, eschews prayer, and is very loud?Are you sure you are not thinking of Unitarians?Doubt is part of faith. Certainty is absurd.
Popular Post Duncan Posted January 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 20, 2015 Doubt is part of faith. Certainty is absurd. are you certain about that? 7
Damien the Leper Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 And (thank you for pausing for breath) He called her to repentance, instead of validating her sexual misconduct.In the which, we follow His example.Jesus is better than all of us.Regards,PahoranAt least he wouldn't arrogantly condescending himself to excommunicate anyone. I'm glad he's the smart one running the bigger show and doesn't endorse excommunication.
Damien the Leper Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) are you certain about that?Of course not. But my years of experiencing certainty is telling of how dangerous it is to genuine spirituality. Absolutism is awkward and unreliable.And nice attempt at a circular philosophical argument. Edited January 20, 2015 by Valentinus
Scott Lloyd Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) At least he wouldn't arrogantly condescending himself to excommunicate anyone. I'm glad he's the smart one running the bigger show and doesn't endorse excommunication.And we're just going to ignore that stuff He said in 3 Nephi 18:31-32 then? Edited January 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 4
Scott Lloyd Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Of course not. But my years of experiencing certainty is telling of how dangerous it is to genuine spirituality. Absolutism is awkward and unreliable.And nice attempt at a circular philosophical argument.Actually, it was quite a deft comeback. It reminds me of people who become extremely judgmental about people who they think are judgmental. Talk about circularity! Edited January 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 4
Duncan Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Of course not. But my years of experiencing certainty is telling of how dangerous it is to genuine spirituality. Absolutism is awkward and unreliable.And nice attempt at a circular philosophical argument. please explain! i can be certain I received x and x from God, am I always holding onto the iron rod? not always but trying! you started me on the path so I blame you Edited January 20, 2015 by Duncan 1
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Doubt is part of faith. Certainty is absurd.The Savior disagrees with you."Doubt not but be believing." 2
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 20, 2015 At least he wouldn't arrogantly condescending himself to excommunicate anyone. I'm glad he's the smart one running the bigger show and doesn't endorse excommunication.Did you miss the parable Jesus gave of the sheep and the goats? Excommunication is mild by comparison. 5
Avatar4321 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 At least he wouldn't arrogantly condescending himself to excommunicate anyone. I'm glad he's the smart one running the bigger show and doesn't endorse excommunication.He is the one who ordained and commands it. 1
USU78 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 At least he wouldn't arrogantly condescending himself to excommunicate anyone. I'm glad he's the smart one running the bigger show and doesn't endorse excommunication. CFR
Damien the Leper Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 And we're just going to ignore that stuff He said in 3 Nephi 18:31-32 then?That says absolutely NOTHING about excommunication. If you could provide the Reformed Egyptian term that translates to excommunication then I'll take you a little more seriously.
Damien the Leper Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 CFRThe scriptures are evidence and authoritative. Unless Jesus says, "I approve this message...", excommunication is irrelevant and unnecessary.
USU78 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 The scriptures are evidence and authoritative. Unless Jesus says, "I approve this message...", excommunication is irrelevant and unnecessary. In other words, "I got nuthin'"
Duncan Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 The scriptures are evidence and authoritative. Unless Jesus says, "I approve this message...", excommunication is irrelevant and unnecessary. would you approve of some bank robber LDS member lady, or some pyromaniac Bishop who or some murderer serving on a High Council? do you think they should be in good standing?
Damien the Leper Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 In other words, "I got nuthin'"I guess the scriptures are nothing to you then. Not my problem. Thanks for playing anyway.
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted January 21, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) That says absolutely NOTHING about excommunication. If you could provide the Reformed Egyptian term that translates to excommunication then I'll take you a little more seriously.Without using the specific term, it precisely defines excommunication as it is imposed when necessary in the Church of Jesus Christ today. I'm beginning to think you don't truly understand the concept yourself, if you make such a remark as the above. Ceasing to number a person among the people of God, yet "continuing to minister" to that person (to use the scriptural phrasing) in the hope that he will repent of wrongdoing and again make himself eligible to be numbered among the covenant people is precisely what excommunication is. If you think it's some draconian practice of shunning and public humiliation, you've got the wrong idea altogether. Edited January 21, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 6
Kenngo1969 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Doubt is part of faith. Certainty is absurd. are you certain about that? Of course he's certain! Don't be absurd! What? Oh, never mind. Don't mind me! 3
Kenngo1969 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 The Savior disagrees with you."Doubt not but be believing."And, "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth."
Pahoran Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That says absolutely NOTHING about excommunication.Actually, it describes excommunication exactly as we practice it. If you could provide the Reformed Egyptian term that translates to excommunication then I'll take you a little more seriously.By which remark, you show that you are merely playing the smart-aleck. How do you expect us to take you seriously?Regards,Pahoran 2
Pahoran Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I guess the scriptures are nothing to you then. Not my problem. Thanks for playing anyway. But Val, you haven't cited a single verse in support of your position. You cannot, when asked for references, simply wave your hand at a large body of literature and claim that it all supports you. That is a complete cop-out, and you know it. If you had something, you would cite it. You don't cite anything, for the entirely good and sufficient reason that you can't. As USU78 said: you got nuthin'. Regards,Pahoran 2
Pahoran Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I think they should slap John on the hands, and give him another wife. That should be his punishment. FYI: however heated the discussions get around here, nobody likes a troll. If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion, maybe you should crawl back under your bridge.Regards,Pahoran 3
why me Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I guess the scriptures are nothing to you then. Not my problem. Thanks for playing anyway. Matthew 18:15-18 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. read more."Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (Bold letters are not mine) Excommunication is certainly in the bible. And we need to remember for the lds excommunication does not preclude coming to church. All are welcome to attend and repent. Of course, people interpret the scriptures different but excommunication is certainly in the scriptures. Edited January 21, 2015 by why me
Damien the Leper Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Actually, it describes excommunication exactly as we practice it. By which remark, you show that you are merely playing the smart-aleck. How do you expect us to take you seriously?Regards,PahoranI am serious. If a direct translation can be provided that literally denotes excommunication then we can have a serious discussion but until then we can go no further.
Damien the Leper Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Matthew 18:15-18 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. read more."Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (Bold letters are not mine) Excommunication is certainly in the bible. And we need to remember for the lds excommunication does not preclude coming to church. All are welcome to attend and repent. Of course, people interpret the scriptures different but excommunication is certainly in the scriptures.This is disfellowship, not excommunication. Keep the citations in their proper context. Membership doesn't exist in the first century church as it does in the modern LDS church.The citations you provide are precisely accurate answers to both USU and Pahoran.
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