JLHPROF Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 1. I do not believe Joseph practiced polygamy. 2. I believe that reincarnation (rebirth) occurs in certain, mostly exceptional, circumstances. 3. I believe adultery is not next to murder in seriousness; we misunderstand Alma's teaching. 4. I believe Joseph designated his son, Joseph Smith III, as his successor according to the principles outlined in D&C 43. 5. I don't believe we now have a "full" prophet in the Joseph Smith sense; the church is under apostolic administration and has been since the martyrdom. 6. I believe the last "thus saith the Lord" revelation the church received was D&C 136 (the last verse pretty much says that). 7. I do not believe we will ever be a God; but we can be a god. Thanks Alan,I am very surprised reading your beliefs (some of which we've discussed) that you are LDS and not Community of Christ.
Boanerges Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 OK, I'll take a stab. I might forget some off hand. 1. I don't believe the Bible or Book of Mormon to be literal, although there are some literal stories (more so in the NT).2. I don't believe the Word of Wisdom is a commandment, and I don't believe it includes specifically coffee and tea3. I do believe Joseph Smith experienced the First Vision and some of the other stuff - I don't believe all of the D&C was actual revelations received by him (in other words, I think he made much of it up)4. I do not believe Adam and Eve were actual individuals, I believe they are symbolic representations of all of us. Therefore the Garden of Eden did not exist.5. I don't believe one needs to be baptized to return to God, likewise any other ordinances.6. I do not believe the COJCOLDS has any monoploy on authority to baptize (I think no authority is needed, baptism is only symbolic).7. I do not believe sexual sin is next in seriousness to murder, and I don't believe masturbation is a sin at all8. I support civil/legal same sex marriage9. I do not believe our president receives revelation for the church or that he or any of the apostles have actually seen Christ, and not everything they say is "scripture"10. I don't believe that polygamy or the priesthood ban were ever commandments from God11. I don't believe God is intimately involved in our daily lives and He does not help us find our lost car keys12. I don't believe we are to be strictly obediaent to the almost numberless commandments, nor are we to blindly follow the prophet - we're supposed to figure things out for ourselves, love our neighbors, and do the best we can 1
The Nehor Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 [*]I believe that, in the end, everyone on this message board will be good friends.HERETIC!!!!!!!BURN HIM!!! BURN THE WITCH!!!! 1
Buckeye Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 HERETIC!!!!!!!BURN HIM!!! BURN THE WITCH!!!! That's not my real post. It's a false one.
Mahoneymoriancumer Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Ok, let's see: 1. I do not believe the story of Adam and Eve is literal, but an analogy with deep lessons to teach. As to our first parents, I do not deny that they existed, but wonder if they were truly the first humans, or the first of God's greatest creations, and possibly the first to covenant with Him.2. I do not believe in the global flood. It puts me at odds with some of the leaders who have taught the doctrine of Earth's baptism, but there you go.3. I have issues with the Word of Wisdom as commandment as opposed to counsel. I recognize the terrible consequences of abuse of the proscribed materials contained therein, but take issue when a beer will keep me out of the temple while 10 lbs of steak a week will not (I do not drink, smoke or eat ten lbs of meat a week, BTW). I have to wonder if the current enforcement of the WoW has more to do with President Grant being a prohibitionist and with the PR of the clean-living Mormon lifestyle. Please don't tell my bishop.
JLHPROF Posted November 5, 2014 Author Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Please don't tell my bishop. Oh, I didn't tell you? Every one of these posts is being forwarded straight to the First Presidency along with the originating IP address to trace. Thanks,Strengthening Church Members Committee Edited November 5, 2014 by JLHPROF 3
Grudunza Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 As has been stated, some of these are not countering actual doctrinal absolutes to begin with, but more of a general notion within the church or culture... - Evolution is being shown overwhelmingly in science, and we'll need to adapt our theology to that (which I think our theology is very well-suited to do). - Tithing is however you feel it should be paid, but I personally disagree with tithing on gross as being the correct method, as I feel that is unfair to all family situations and more burdensome to the poor, and has the potential to create debt. I also disagree strongly with those who have said we should pay tithing before feeding our family or paying rent. Be responsible for your family and to those you owe debt to (landlords, etc.), and then pay tithing on what remains. - I am happy to sustain and follow the prophets and leaders, but do not *depend* on them (as JS repeatedly preached against) or put them on a pedestal. Rather than feel the need to keep hammering "follow the leaders" over and over in the recent GC (which really started to feel defensive), I think it would be more effective to "show me don't tell me." In other words, there were very powerful talks by Elder Holland and Christofferson and Uchtdorf and Hales and others... By the virtue of their preaching they invite me to follow them. If the apostles are the divinely appointed leaders of our church, and I do sustain them in that fashion, then let us appreciate their insight and their light and love of Christ, and we will be compelled to follow them by the spirit. Commanding us to follow them not only seems wrong, doctrinally, but feels wrong, spiritually. - I take a lot of the OT to be poetic or figurative or retold with embellishment over time (e.g., I believe in a limited flood), but still consider it to be very valuable scripture. I believe the BoM is a true account, but some things were probably embellished in the telling. - I am in a confused state about polygamy and its implications. What I mean is... JS very clearly preached against polygamy, many times and quite forcefully. And so either he was a big fat liar in that regard (though perhaps was commanded to lie about it), or... well, I know there are some who claim that BY and others put JS' polygamy onto him well after the fact. In some ways, I'd be more comfortable with that, but that also requires a big ol' conspiracy, and I don't think I can accept that, either, with the mountain of evidence that seems to show that JS did have many wives. For now, I continue in faith and sort of put the whole polygamy thing on the shelf, but there are a lot of difficult issues involved there, and I think some human failing and deception was probably involved. And I can accept that and still be faithful and revere JS for the great things he did accomplish. - I do not believe the priesthood ban was an inspired revelation, but a policy put in place, and the Lord allowed it, but to the detriment of the Church for a long time. I also think other things were somewhat muted or corrupted from the original Restoration after Joseph's death, and as a result we've had a somewhat limited or darkened time in some respects... no new revelations or scriptures revealed, etc. ETB said in, I think, 1980, that we were still under condemnation from the Lord, 150 years later, for not giving enough attention to the BoM. I think that's been helped since, but it goes to show that just because we have grown and spread as a church, we're not necessarily always as spiritually in tune as we should be.- There are a lot of cultural doctrines that I disagree with... only white shirts, no rated R movies, applause breaking the spirit, etc. I feel like as missionary focused as the church is, we do a lot to put up walls in a cultural sense, which don't really need to be there. And we can be very Pharisaical about some things, which I think gets us in trouble. One example is the rated R thing... that never was a doctrine and was only spoken to the youth to begin with. But it became such an ingrained "cultural doctrine" that droves of church members then supported completely illegal operations (movie editing services) and ended up watching way more crap than ever, only it was *okay* to watch because the bad words and violence was removed. (Clean Flicks once stated that "Saw" was one of their most popular titles... Really? Saw is worth spending time watching now, just because the rated R stuff has been removed??) - Requirement for baptism should be repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. We should baptize anyone and everyone who has that desire. If they also have interest in joining our Church and accepting our theology and paying tithing and all of that, great, but baptism alone should be more of a simple thing. I feel like if we offered a basic baptism service to those seeking it, we'd have a lot more people taking us up on that, and then they'd have a foot in the door, so to speak, as far as appreciating our theology and particular faith. We're always trying to "up sell," though, and I don't feel like baptism is necessarily meant to be connected to the whole package of joining our Church, but is still an important and necessary ordinance for all to receive.
cdowis Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 There was death during days four and five of the creation, prior to the creation of Adam. We've had a couple of threads on that topic.
Guest Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Because all members agree on all doctrines? Or because we shouldn't discuss which doctrines we disagree on?No, because it is a tread that is about how we differ with the Church or leaders. It you want to do something like this so be it. I just find it odd that you want to couch it in such terms. If you are speaking of disagreeing with "Church Doctrines", then it becomes one thing, when you speak of differing with "Church Leaders" it is open to politics, tie selection or lunch preferences. In short...well you have already seen.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think masturbation should be a sin, especially for single people. Having no sexual release can pose risk for prostate cancer. 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 I think the church teaching that sexual sin is like murder is wrong and a misreading of scripture. Actually it doesn't teach that at all.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) I don't think masturbation should be a sin, especially for single people. Having no sexual release can pose risk for prostate cancer.IT seems to only be a sin before a mission. Magically, on and after a mission, it doesn't matter. I guess it depends on the bishop too. But that to me tells me that it is not a big deal if there is that much wiggle room. Edited November 5, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram
strappinglad Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think masturbation should be a sin, especially for single people. Having no sexual release can pose risk for prostate cancer. That's not something half the population worries much about.
carbon dioxide Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Wow, thanks guys! Some of your beliefs and perspectives I already knew, but I am finding this give me a much better understanding of where each of you are coming from.I am also astonished at some of the beliefs held by active Church members - I think there are many of us here (myself included) that could face discipline if we were to start preaching our beliefs in Sunday School (or even to member friends). Mormonism, even within the Church and ignoring other Mormon groups, is much more of a tapestry of beliefs than you would ever know to look at Church materials, conferences, gatherings etc.I think it goes to show that LDS are not mindless robots that believe exactly the same on every point. I would say I accept over 95% of Church doctrine. The rest I am not completely committed. I am not commited to the world wide flood of Noah leaving only 8 people left on the planet and all the animals on the ark. I have a hard time believing Noah would put termites on a wooden ark. I also do not accept the alternative view that the flood was just a local or regional flood. If that is all it way, why build an ark? God could have just told Noah to walk 200 miles in a certain direction and be safe. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Evolution is another area I just don't know about. Though the current model of science suggest that it occurred, I have a hard time believing God needed a billion years to put man on the earth yet he ressurects man from the dust in seconds. If evolution is correct, I would think the resurrection will require millions of years to accomplish as that is just as hard if not more difficult than putting moral life on the Earth. I just keep an open mind realizing what it says in the D&C that when Christ comes, things about the Earth will be revealed that no man ever knew about. All the models that mankind has made on the history of the Earth will be broken and replaced with that actually happened before humans began writing history books.
pogi Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think masturbation should be a sin, especially for single people. Having no sexual release can pose risk for prostate cancer. Too much masturbation can pose the same risk...careful there buddy! http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20090127/masturbation-and-prostate-cancer-risk 1
SeekingUnderstanding Posted November 5, 2014 Posted November 5, 2014 Actually it doesn't teach that at all.You are right that I mis-worded that. Here is what I disagree with: The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5).
Grudunza Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Too much masturbation can pose the same risk...careful there buddy! http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20090127/masturbation-and-prostate-cancer-risk Or hold out until you're 50, at least. Edited November 6, 2014 by Grudunza
Robert F. Smith Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5).What sort of sexual sin? Should one distinguish between adultery and non-adulterous fornication? What of petting? Masturbation? Are there gradations of such sin? What are the real concerns of an LDS bishop nowadays? What did Alma actually mean (Alma 39:5)? Wasn't he concerned not only with Corianton's consorting with the whore Isabel, but with the way in which it created the view among the Lamanites that the sanctimonious Nephites were hypocrites 1
shinedown Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 Evolution is another area I just don't know about. Though the current model of science suggest that it occurred, I have a hard time believing God needed a billion years to put man on the earth yet he ressurects man from the dust in seconds. If evolution is correct, I would think the resurrection will require millions of years to accomplish as that is just as hard if not more difficult than putting moral life on the Earth. I just keep an open mind realizing what it says in the D&C that when Christ comes, things about the Earth will be revealed that no man ever knew about. All the models that mankind has made on the history of the Earth will be broken and replaced with that actually happened before humans began writing history books. That's a good point. I tend to look at things such as this as being something that was put into terms that people could understand. When the bible was written, the idea of billions of years would have been a very tough concept. Not to mention that the timeframe for a day is a very worldly concept, and may be drastically different than what a day would be like for Heavenly Father.
Garden Girl Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 I just keep an open mind realizing what it says in the D&C that when Christ comes, things about the Earth will be revealed that no man ever knew about. All the models that mankind has made on the history of the Earth will be broken and replaced with that actually happened before humans began writing history books. D&C 101:32-34.... one of my favorite passages, and one that tells me that even with all the advancements in science and physics (which I personally believe have been inspired) that we still do not now know, nor will we ever fully know, the manner in which the earth was created... we still will have much to learn. But I do believe that all of these "laws" were utilized in the process as needed. GG 1
carbon dioxide Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 What sort of sexual sin? Should one distinguish between adultery and non-adulterous fornication? What of petting? Masturbation? Are there gradations of such sin? What are the real concerns of an LDS bishop nowadays? What did Alma actually mean (Alma 39:5)? Wasn't he concerned not only with Corianton's consorting with the whore Isabel, but with the way in which it created the view among the Lamanites that the sanctimonious Nephites were hypocritesNot all sexual sin is the same in my book. As far as I am concerned, the worst sexual sin is not adultery but child sexual abuse. Only murder can top that.
mfbukowski Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 I'm not as concerned about "official doctrine" as I am about Church position. If it's Church position that Jehovah in the OT is Christ's pre-mortal spirit and I as a member disagree, that's not difficult to define. If it's Church position that nobody died before Adam and Eve fell and you disagree then that is not difficult to define. Overcomplicating terms is just pedantry. It has its place but in a discussion like this it's simple - pick a Church teaching - agree or disagree. Simple. I hate semantics if they prevent simple discussion.Good. There was no death before the fall, and there is no reason for further discussion. Easy enough for you?
mfbukowski Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 There was death during days four and five of the creation, prior to the creation of Adam. We've had a couple of threads on that topic.No, that was just the carbon cycle- carbon recycling itself. The word "death" hadn't been invented yet.
mnn727 Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 11. I don't believe God is intimately involved in our daily lives and He does not help us find our lost car keys Amen to that. The idea that people believe the Supreme Ruler of the universe helps find lost keys is just boggles my mind.
The Nehor Posted November 6, 2014 Posted November 6, 2014 Amen to that. The idea that people believe the Supreme Ruler of the universe helps find lost keys is just boggles my mind.How about a sad child praying to God to help him or her find their lost ball?
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