What Did Conference Say To You?

[HappyJackWagon]

According to our doctrine and canon, when we follow a prophet, we ARE following Christ.  Although the prophet is a mortal and imperfect, you really cannot separate the two.  

I disagree. I believe I can have a testimony of the gospel of Christ, his atonement etc, yet hesitate to believe everything JS, BY or modern prophets teach. A testimony of the church and a tesimony of the gospel are not the same thing though we are conditioned to believe they are.

[Avatar4321]

Be kinder.

[EllenMaksoud]

There was no one awesome talk I can point to, no phrase or quote that will stick with me for weeks, though due to work and other events there are a few talks I must catch up on.

That said, I felt something.  I will illustrate using Elder Uchtdorf's PH Talk "Lord Is it I"

 

While listening to the talk I was pierced with the same feeling I got all through Conference with the same thoughts through my mind.

 

I sit on top of a pivot trying so hard to stay centered balancing between doubting my doubts and feeding them.  I fully realize their are what I would absolutely call problematicc issues.  There are solid reasons to doubt.  I also see evidences, and those are suffcient enough as well.  3 years ago, I almost called it quits and left.  Luckily I realized that the biggest obstacle in the way was my own assumptions and expectations.  Don't get me wrong, even after those were largely corrected there were still difficult and problematic issues that weighed me down though I also partook in spiritual experiences which kept me connected. but it was a back and forth.  I don't want to be a gullible idiot who falls for a sham.  I also don't want to miss out if the Church is true but in the joy and in the opportunities to become like Christ.

 

This conference has shifted my off the fulcrum.  Below I share some of the things that have changed.

 

- I will say first and foremost, I will still try to deal with difficult issues.  Talk about them, explore them, and see where those discussions lead.  I will also conitnue to empathize with the one who doubts and struggles

 

-  That said I AM going to be more charitable to those who consider me the problem, both in my real world and in the internet world.

 

-  This conference really helped me divide between the gospel and the Church.  The gospel to me is true, no ifs ands or buts.  The Church I see as very flawed.... not in that it is faulty or damaged or in apostacy..... no nothing like that.  But rather we are all on various places on a spectrum and while many the speakers talk to me at the place where I am at, and others still are ahead of me begging me to move forward, I also realize some are simply in another place and their words, council, and "truth" simply is not my "truth" and doesn't meet my needs.  In the past this made me angry.  I would think "Don't they know what they are saying is hurting me"  This conference something clicked and I just understood that is where they are at... so be it.  

 

- I am determined to be better and now, for the first time, I feel I see the road to get there.

 

Scott, ERAY, Bob Crockett, and others - While I still strongly disagree with your approach and will continue to disagree, I am determined to disagree much more softly.  

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WHAT DID YOU TAKE FROM CONFERENCE????

Did we listen to the same conference? Or maybe each one of us heard different things according to the need? I heard a comment about those who leave the church. I heard a comment about "Searchers", of which I certainly am.  One of them talked about getting distracted by narrow issues and losing sight of the will of God and of Jesus the Christ. That's why I have to listen to it again.

[Bob Crockett]

Scott, ERAY, Bob Crockett, and others - While I still strongly disagree with your approach and will continue to disagree, I am determined to disagree much more softly.  

=============================================================

WHAT DID YOU TAKE FROM CONFERENCE????

I hope you find Christian peace in your heart, brother, and come to realize that discussion on a religious-themed board often leads to disagreement rather than accord. And if there is disagreement, I hope that you can find it in your heart to take it with a grain of salt. Edited October 6, 2014 by Bob Crockett

[DBMormon]

I hope you find Christian peace in your heart, brother, and come to realize that discussion on a religious-themed board often leads to disagreement rather than accord. And if there is disagreement, I hope that you can find it in your heart to take it like a grain of salt.

I hope so too.  My worry is someone will bite and I will bite back, but I am determined to be better.

[teddyaware]

I disagree. I believe I can have a testimony of the gospel of Christ, his atonement etc, yet hesitate to believe everything JS, BY or modern prophets teach. A testimony of the church and a tesimony of the gospel are not the same thing though we are conditioned to believe they are.

After viewing and pondering the General Conference addresses, and then comparing those addresses with your point of view, I've arrived at a sobering thought:

 

What if during the prophesied coming days of severe tribulation the Prophets of the Church issue commandments in the name of the Lord that will be absolutely imperative to obey in order for the members of the Church to pass safely through the many treacherous traps and snares laid to destroy the souls of men by the adversary and his human followers? But what if these new and extremely important commandments -- received by revelation from the Lord Himself in order to temporally and spiritually save His people from very real dangers -- are rejected by members who are of the same sort as some today who cavalierly pick and choose when and if they will believe and follow the counsel of the living prophets?

 

If this scenario does indeed become reality, those who disobey the Prophets and are thus trapped and ensnared, will live in constant regret and misery because of their lost opportunities. It seems likely these "pick and choose" future members, who will choose to not obey the Lord's new revelations, will do so because they will view the counsel of the living Prophets as foolish, unreasonable or contrary to the widely-held popular secular views and doctrines of the day. All the while, prior to coming to the awful realization that they have made tragic mistakes, they will most assuredly feel perfectly confident in their partially converted minds that the Lord's anointed have "got it wrong."

Edited October 7, 2014 by teddyaware

[Hamba Tuhan]

The Lord has repeatedly made it clear that He withholds Himself from those who reject the servants whom He sends in His name:

 

'O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

 

'Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

'For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord'.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[HappyJackWagon]

 

what if these new and extremely important commandments -- received by revelation from the Lord Himself in order to temporally and spiritually save His people from very real dangers -- are rejected by members who are of the same sort as some today who cavalierly pick and choose when and if they will believe and follow the counsel of the living prophets?

 

"What if" feels like an "I'm hedging my bets" kind of statement...just in case the prophets are right.

"Cavalierly" is an inaccurate characterization of how many go about making these decisions. We're not asking a magic 8 ball if we should follow the word of wisdom or temple covenants etc. The decisions I make are based on concerted study and following the spirit and my conscience. It is not cavalier at all, BUT my beliefs don't line up perfectly with the brethren though I am very orthoprax.

[stemelbow]

I have to go back and review it all. I got some of the same good things others are saying here, but what stands out to me more than anything is Elder Holland's talk. It was good, but it also troubles me more and more that he admitted to not having answers to the tough questions. It's all part of our journey, I guess. but it became apparent to me that they (the leaders, apostles and all) are just like me, in most ways. And the things that trouble me most have no resolution in this life. I have to trust things will somehow work out.

Its getting to the point for me, nothing is making sense. We don't seem to have any revelation. The problems we face are minimal compared to most in the world, and if not currently in the world, most of those who have lived in the world. My concern these days is the Church isn't really doing anything. Problems persist and we as members ignore them, the org itself ignores them. We're just sitting amongst billions saying things like, "be in the world and not of it" suggesting we're better than others.

It means little to me, anymore, to say follow the prophet, or stay in the boat. Monson's fine and dandy but I don't follow him. I listen to him, take the good and continue to live, but the good I get is often the same type of good I get from reading normal books and even watching good movies. I don't mean to offend anyone or him, but we all know there is no revelation. No particular insight. Just some good guy who leads well, speaks well, and says nice things. Staying in the boat means little to me as well. Ward-level work is spinning wheels. I just keep doing it. Numbers are reported and goals are set. Attitudes get in the way and people either come to Church or not. Those who don't seem as happy and well-adjusted to me, as those that do. The ones who consider coming back are those that are in some way broken and want to be fixed. I'm out weekly to bring people back and I'm busy doing it. But largely they have no interest at all and I don't see a good set of reasoning to get them to come. They see jerks and bad attitudes at church. Why do they want that? I don't blame them. I just love them, appreciate them. I guess that's something that makes me keep going. I'd like to see the big tent version of my dreams. But most in the Church don't want that at all, it seems to me. They want people to either become them or not show up so they have people to talk about while at Church.

I don't know. It does resonate with me to want to be a part of this and even be patient with everyone, loving everyone. But it ain't easy.

[Ahab]

President Eyring's talk on Sunday morning was my fave, but I missed all the Saturday sessions, which I will watch later. His talk was on very basic issues involved with receiving revelations, things I have known for years, but the power of the Spirit was strong during his talk and I appreciated the additional assurances about what I already knew.

And the other talks following seemed to fit very well into his talk while building on it.

Least fave talks were the ones dubbed into English while the captioning did not keep up. Very confusing for my wife who is deaf. And why have them speak in those languages when someone else dubbed over into English anyway? Did those in the conference center hear the original or the dubbed language?

Edited October 7, 2014 by Ahab

[teddyaware]

"What if" feels like an "I'm hedging my bets" kind of statement...just in case the prophets are right.

"Cavalierly" is an inaccurate characterization of how many go about making these decisions. We're not asking a magic 8 ball if we should follow the word of wisdom or temple covenants etc. The decisions I make are based on concerted study and following the spirit and my conscience. It is not cavalier at all, BUT my beliefs don't line up perfectly with the brethren though I am very orthoprax.

I guess you didn't realize the "what if" was targeted at those who disobey the revelations of the Prophets; it was not targeted at the Prophets themselves. You see, I was trying to be polite. Rather than bluntly blurting out the more inflammatory, "what are the disobedient going to say when they realize they should have obeyed the new and extremely important commandments from the Lord," I simply thought it would be less inflammatory to temper my language. But it seems my attempt at being polite caused you to misunderstand

 

Reread my post and you'll see the "what if" had nothing at all to do with any wondering on my part as to whether or not the Prophets are right. I don't need to wonder about that because I already know they are right. And I also know that those who think they know better are going to end up greatly disappointed. But I've said nothing new here because that frequently reiterated admonition is found all over the scriptures.

13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people; (D&C 1)

Edited October 7, 2014 by teddyaware

[bluebell]

I have to go back and review it all. I got some of the same good things others are saying here, but what stands out to me more than anything is Elder Holland's talk. It was good, but it also troubles me more and more that he admitted to not having answers to the tough questions. It's all part of our journey, I guess. but it became apparent to me that they (the leaders, apostles and all) are just like me, in most ways. And the things that trouble me most have no resolution in this life. I have to trust things will somehow work out.

Its getting to the point for me, nothing is making sense. We don't seem to have any revelation. The problems we face are minimal compared to most in the world, and if not currently in the world, most of those who have lived in the world. My concern these days is the Church isn't really doing anything. Problems persist and we as members ignore them, the org itself ignores them. We're just sitting amongst billions saying things like, "be in the world and not of it" suggesting we're better than others.

It means little to me, anymore, to say follow the prophet, or stay in the boat. Monson's fine and dandy but I don't follow him. I listen to him, take the good and continue to live, but the good I get is often the same type of good I get from reading normal books and even watching good movies. I don't mean to offend anyone or him, but we all know there is no revelation. No particular insight. Just some good guy who leads well, speaks well, and says nice things. Staying in the boat means little to me as well. Ward-level work is spinning wheels. I just keep doing it. Numbers are reported and goals are set. Attitudes get in the way and people either come to Church or not. Those who don't seem as happy and well-adjusted to me, as those that do. The ones who consider coming back are those that are in some way broken and want to be fixed. I'm out weekly to bring people back and I'm busy doing it. But largely they have no interest at all and I don't see a good set of reasoning to get them to come. They see jerks and bad attitudes at church. Why do they want that? I don't blame them. I just love them, appreciate them. I guess that's something that makes me keep going. I'd like to see the big tent version of my dreams. But most in the Church don't want that at all, it seems to me. They want people to either become them or not show up so they have people to talk about while at Church.

I don't know. It does resonate with me to want to be a part of this and even be patient with everyone, loving everyone. But it ain't easy.

I very much believe there is revelation.

[stemelbow]

I very much believe there is revelation.

me too. It's just that revelation is equally spread among member and non-member alike. There doesn't seem to be any special info or knowledge given to prophets and apostles that is not also considered inspiration people get from books and movies.

[Silhouette]

I always enjoy hearing President Uchtdorf's remarks. What I got out of conference personally was that I must attend the temple more.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

I guess you didn't realize the "what if" was targeted at those who disobey the revelations of the Prophets; it was not targeted at the Prophets themselves. You see, I was trying to be polite. Rather than bluntly blurting out the more inflammatory, "what are the disobedient going to say when they realize they should have obeyed the new and extremely important commandments from the Lord," I simply thought it would be less inflammatory to temper my language. But it seems my attempt at being polite caused you to misunderstand

 

What we have here...is a failure...to communicate. I understood you fine. I was just nitpicking the "what if" for those who choose to follow because the prophets might be right and they don't want to risk being wrong.

[teddyaware]

What we have here...is a failure...to communicate. I understood you fine. I was just nitpicking the "what if" for those who choose to follow because the prophets might be right and they don't want to risk being wrong.

Now we're communicating quite well. All that's left for me to say before understanding is reached is that I'm not one of those who obeys the prophets because I fear there's a possibility they might be right. I believe and obey them because I already know they are right.

[bluebell]

me too. It's just that revelation is equally spread among member and non-member alike. There doesn't seem to be any special info or knowledge given to prophets and apostles that is not also considered inspiration people get from books and movies.

I disagree.

[stemelbow]

I disagree.

how dare you.

[Ahab]

I disagree.

I'm beginning to like your style. Don't explain why or pinpoint the ideas you don't agree with. Just say you disagree and leave it at that. I kinda like it.

[Grundelwalken]

me too. It's just that revelation is equally spread among member and non-member alike. There doesn't seem to be any special info or knowledge given to prophets and apostles that is not also considered inspiration people get from books and movies.

I have to strongly disagree. Some on this board have mentioned Elder Oaks as an example of revelation in a time of need. There is constant revelation from God to the prophets, Stake Presidents, Bishops, and members. That it is not 'grand' and 'glorious' in the eyes of a few is not something The Lord is going to worry about. MW

[JLHPROF]

me too. It's just that revelation is equally spread among member and non-member alike. There doesn't seem to be any special info or knowledge given to prophets and apostles that is not also considered inspiration people get from books and movies.

 

It really does seem that way doesn't it.  I think they are doing the best they can to lead their stewardships according to the will of the Lord.

I don't think they regularly receive the word of the Lord on decisions as in days past.  I think it is more a case of praying and following impressions as any person might receive in answer to prayer.

But for now, that's what the Lord has chosen to provide.

[teddyaware]

It really does seem that way doesn't it.  I think they are doing the best they can to lead their stewardships according to the will of the Lord.

I don't think they regularly receive the word of the Lord on decisions as in days past.  I think it is more a case of praying and following impressions as any person might receive in answer to prayer.

But for now, that's what the Lord has chosen to provide.

A bit presumptuous because we have no idea what actually goes on behind the scenes with the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, all of whom are prophets, seers and revelators...

"There are those who would assume that with the printing and binding of these sacred records (the Standard Works), that would be the “end of the prophets.” But again we testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord." (Spencer W. Kimball)

Edited October 8, 2014 by teddyaware

[JLHPROF]

A bit presumptuous because we have no idea what actually goes on behind the scenes with the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, all of whom are prophets, seers and revelators...

"There are those who would assume that with the printing and binding of these sacred records (the Standard Works), that would be the “end of the prophets.” But again we testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord." (Spencer W. Kimball)

 

And yet not a single one revealed to the public or membership as in days past. Not one in the last century.  Ever.

[Ahab]

And yet not a single one revealed to the public or membership as in days past. Not one in the last century. Ever.

Do you think the old Nephites and Lamanites were aware of the Book of Mormon as it was being written, aside from the people who wrote it? And how many people in Joseph Smith's day do you think were aware of the D&Cs as they were being written, aside from Joseph and the people who helped him to write them?

Looks to me like most scriptures were like writings in a diary as they are being written and not shown to the public until later, as if they are intended for later generations.

[Hamba Tuhan]

And yet not a single one revealed to the public or membership as in days past. Not one in the last century.  Ever.

 

I can't think of an area or stake training meeting from the past two years where the visiting 70s haven't shared with us as part of their training some of the revelations that the leaders of the Church are receiving and sending forth. And in our ward, as we've acted on these prophetic teachings, miracles have occurred. I've never felt more excited for 'all that God does now reveal' ... or more sure of its source and purpose.