Ok - Seriously. Where Do You (Evangelical) Guys Get This Stuff.

[blooit]

I mean I get it... Mormons are peculiar.  We believe that Jesus appeared to a 14 y.o. boy in New York.  We believe in modern revelation and scripture.  We believe we have a living, actual prophet today.  We believe in modern day miracles and visions and the restoration of the ancient church.  Why then do so many of my evangelical friends need to make stuff up?  Isn't the truth enough to highlight our differences?  But the whole, "I know your beliefs better than you" and "did you know that Brigham Young once said 160 years ago that..."  I don't know I mean if you are truly representing Christ, shouldn't there be a little honesty to go along with it.

 

I'm sorry to vent.  I'm just getting Facebook messages from some friends, and it seems so unchristian to hear some of the bunk they've been fed by their pastors and at their anti-mormon seminars.  The true differences are stark enough.  You don't have to bear false witness to show that there are fundamental differences.  Just sayin'

[Storm Rider]

Blooit, that get that joyful news from their pastors and teachers; all of whom are often completely ignorant of our teachings and learned from those who are just as ignorant as they are.  The biggest majority of my extended family is Evangelical.  It is not that they are evil; it is just that they don't think to read themselves.  Even when they know better - i.e. my family has told them many times what we believe - they will most often go with what their pastor says about Mormon beliefs as the gospel truth.  

 

Of all Christians that exist these are the ones that I have the least interest in getting to know any further as a group.  You will know immediately if there can be a relationship as individuals.  We can enjoy music together, we can work together, but they will harbor ill will toward me, my family, and my beliefs and I will always have a degree of distrust of them.  

 

If the time ever came that the nation started burning Mormons at the stake, it has always been my thought that it would be lead by Evangelicals; Catholics and Jews would follow soon after. 

[BCSpace]

I'm just getting Facebook messages from some friends, and it seems so unchristian to hear some of the bunk they've been fed by their pastors and at their anti-mormon seminars.  The true differences are stark enough.  You don't have to bear false witness to show that there are fundamental differences.  Just sayin'

 

 

You must be new at this. I've dealt with it for decades now and the reality is that much of the 'bunk' is not much different than it was in the early days of the Church. The silver lining is that an LDS person can really get to know their Bible answering it and it doesn't take long to realize with absolutely certainty that the LDS Church truly is the only Biblical Church out there.

[HairBear]

Maybe they don't want to find out the truth about what we believe because they may actually start to believe it themselves.

[teddyaware]

Maybe they don't want to find out the truth about what we believe because they may actually start to believe it themselves.

That's likely why some of these folks come here to debate. They know in their hearts Mormonism makes a compelling case and that our teachings and doctrines are very logical and exceedingly fair, especially in consideration of the fact that God is supposed to be a God of genuine justice and perfect love. They come here to challenge us -- whistling past the graveyard as it were -- in response to the fact that their spirits are whispering to their hearts and minds that the LDS Church might very well be true. So in attempts to tamp these disturbing impressions of mind down, they engage in challenges to LDS beliefs in order to repeatedly convince themselves that they are right and we are wrong. But we make such a good case in defense of our beliefs that they are left unsettled. So they try, try, and try again in the vain hope they'll finally be able to put their restless hearts and fears to rest.

Edited October 4, 2014 by teddyaware

[blooit]

You must be new at this. I've dealt with it for decades now and the reality is that much of the 'bunk' is not much different than it was in the early days of the Church. The silver lining is that an LDS person can really get to know their Bible answering it and it doesn't take long to realize with absolutely certainty that the LDS Church truly is the only Biblical Church out there.

 

I wish I was.  I grew up near Manti, Utah.  From the time I was very young I listened to this stuff.  I'm old enough to have watched the arguments change somewhat, but mostly remain the same.  I guess after decades of trying to reason with these people, I really just found myself (yesterday) realizing that many of them don't even believe it themselves.  Like I said, there is plenty there that is true to argue about.  If you have to make stuff up, you must fear the truth.  Reminds me of what the pharisees did to Jesus.  I find myself wanting to do a Jack Nicholas imitation, "You can't handle the truth!"

[cdowis]

I had a conversation with an Evangelist about all the bad things said about the church ==>>

 

Well, let's suppose that there really was the true church of Christ on the earth today.  How do you think the rest of the world would respond to it -- the press, the other churches, etc.  What would they say?

 

He thought for a moment, and said he got my point.

Edited October 4, 2014 by cdowis

[JLHPROF]

My favorite isn't when a lie is told.  It's when an actual belief of the Church is announced like it's news to us and should shock us to our core.

When in fact we already knew that...

[Senator]

Blooit, that get that joyful news from their pastors and teachers; all of whom are often completely ignorant of our teachings and learned from those who are just as ignorant as they are.  The biggest majority of my extended family is Evangelical.  It is not that they are evil; it is just that they don't think to read themselves.  Even when they know better - i.e. my family has told them many times what we believe - they will most often go with what their pastor says about Mormon beliefs as the gospel truth.  

 

Of all Christians that exist these are the ones that I have the least interest in getting to know any further as a group.  You will know immediately if there can be a relationship as individuals.  We can enjoy music together, we can work together, but they will harbor ill will toward me, my family, and my beliefs and I will always have a degree of distrust of them.  

 

If the time ever came that the nation started burning Mormons at the stake, it has always been my thought that it would be lead by Evangelicals; Catholics and Jews would follow soon after. 

 

...and the ones supplying them with the stakes and lighter fluid will be the cultural and fringe mormons.

 

Don't forget them!

Edited October 4, 2014 by Senator

[saemo]

I mean I get it... Mormons are peculiar.  We believe that Jesus appeared to a 14 y.o. boy in New York.  We believe in modern revelation and scripture.  We believe we have a living, actual prophet today.  We believe in modern day miracles and visions and the restoration of the ancient church.  Why then do so many of my evangelical friends need to make stuff up?  Isn't the truth enough to highlight our differences?  But the whole, "I know your beliefs better than you" and "did you know that Brigham Young once said 160 years ago that..."  I don't know I mean if you are truly representing Christ, shouldn't there be a little honesty to go along with it.

 

I'm sorry to vent.  I'm just getting Facebook messages from some friends, and it seems so unchristian to hear some of the bunk they've been fed by their pastors and at their anti-mormon seminars.  The true differences are stark enough.  You don't have to bear false witness to show that there are fundamental differences.  Just sayin'

As a Catholic, I see the same both from Evangelicals and Mormons. Facebook is where a lot of people say a lot of ill-informed things. So what? I don't crowd source for acceptance in the world. Facebook is not my faith community and the like button isn't my absolution.

Edited October 4, 2014 by saemo

[saemo]

Blooit, that get that joyful news from their pastors and teachers; all of whom are often completely ignorant of our teachings and learned from those who are just as ignorant as they are.  The biggest majority of my extended family is Evangelical.  It is not that they are evil; it is just that they don't think to read themselves.  Even when they know better - i.e. my family has told them many times what we believe - they will most often go with what their pastor says about Mormon beliefs as the gospel truth.  

 

Of all Christians that exist these are the ones that I have the least interest in getting to know any further as a group.  You will know immediately if there can be a relationship as individuals.  We can enjoy music together, we can work together, but they will harbor ill will toward me, my family, and my beliefs and I will always have a degree of distrust of them.  

 

If the time ever came that the nation started burning Mormons at the stake, it has always been my thought that it would be lead by Evangelicals; Catholics and Jews would follow soon after. 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt here, and not believe that you intended to display the bigotry I see. Really, don't trust non Mormons because they're just waiting for the opportune moment to light you up? I can assure you, I know of no one who is of this mind.

[drums12]

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt here, and not believe that you intended to display the bigotry I see. Really, don't trust non Mormons because they're just waiting for the opportune moment to light you up? I can assure you, I know of no one who is of this mind.

I can assure you, I've met people who are of this mind.  Most probably aren't, but there are some.  Probably most of us who served full time missions experienced an ambush a time or two.  I recall getting a media referral (someone had responded to a Church advertisement for a free video as I recall).  When we arrived they were waiting with "Kingdom of the Cults"

[saemo]

I can assure you, I've met people who are of this mind.  Most probably aren't, but there are some.  Probably most of us who served full time missions experienced an ambush a time or two.  I recall getting a media referral (someone had responded to a Church advertisement for a free video as I recall).  When we arrived they were waiting with "Kingdom of the Cults"

But did they have stakes and flames prepared?

[drums12]

But did they have stakes and flames prepared?

I took your usage of "light up" to be figurative  

[EllenMaksoud]

I mean I get it... Mormons are peculiar.  We believe that Jesus appeared to a 14 y.o. boy in New York.  We believe in modern revelation and scripture.  We believe we have a living, actual prophet today.  We believe in modern day miracles and visions and the restoration of the ancient church.  Why then do so many of my evangelical friends need to make stuff up?  Isn't the truth enough to highlight our differences?  But the whole, "I know your beliefs better than you" and "did you know that Brigham Young once said 160 years ago that..."  I don't know I mean if you are truly representing Christ, shouldn't there be a little honesty to go along with it.

 

I'm sorry to vent.  I'm just getting Facebook messages from some friends, and it seems so unchristian to hear some of the bunk they've been fed by their pastors and at their anti-mormon seminars.  The true differences are stark enough.  You don't have to bear false witness to show that there are fundamental differences.  Just sayin'

I was Evangelical from 1974 to 2004, you do the math. There was a brief stint in the RLDS church. We were searching.

 

The Bible can be spun, and to add to the confusion, there are some EV folk who actually do seek Jesus the Christ, but they are largely silent. So, the Pastors go to Bible College and then to Seminary, it's confusing. I have a dear friend who is a Four-Square Pastor, and to keep his license, he must tow the church line. He can't preach about compassion for gays and "other sinners" One of the things that propelled me out of the ranks of the EV was a certain TV Evangelist shouting and pounding the pulpit and saying "All Muslims are going to HELL!"  After that and a few other things, the church did not seem real, and Jesus did not either.

 

Still, the first Commandment in the OT is clear. "I am the Lord thy God and thou shall have no other God's before me".  It was also very clear to me that the slash job that the Media and our government was doing on all Muslims was just bogus. And after years of vague hate filled generalities, Islam seemed like the only true religion.

 

It hurt me a lot that Pastors can get up there and demean women (In some EV churches, woman can not mount the pulpit unless a man is there too).  Most unnerving to me is that Pastors can yell from the pulpit. I have heard them shout about gays, Muslims, and it has made me ask, where is Jesus in all this hate speech?

 

So, after being gone from their ranks for a decade, I can see some moderation in their ranks.  The "Stop Murdering Us" campaign had some effect, and then the Evangelical Discovery of Mormons was pure shock for them. There was a gathering of one of the main bodies of Evangelicals in which one of their members, gave a message complaining that Mormons are doing a better job than us. This was really surprising because one of my issues with EV folk is that they like to predatorize others, even members of their own flock.  I have just moved, so please do not ask me to locate the printed copy. One of these days, the person who loaned it to me will ask for it back and I live in fear of that.

 

One thing that is absolutely unique about Mormons is no matter what I have done, I've never been made to feel guilty or devalued.  They always speak of moving on and growing. If you have never sat in an Evangelical "Circle of Sin", you have never lived. It is comprised of a circle of chairs with one in the middle. The sinner is placed in the middle and  the righteous occupy the the outer circle. I made it through several "correctors", got up and left and went straight to Islam.

 

Yes, Mormons are peculiar, delightfully so! 

[Ahab]

I mean I get it... Mormons are peculiar. We believe that Jesus appeared to a 14 y.o. boy in New York. We believe in modern revelation and scripture. We believe we have a living, actual prophet today. We believe in modern day miracles and visions and the restoration of the ancient church. Why then do so many of my evangelical friends need to make stuff up? Isn't the truth enough to highlight our differences? But the whole, "I know your beliefs better than you" and "did you know that Brigham Young once said 160 years ago that..." I don't know I mean if you are truly representing Christ, shouldn't there be a little honesty to go along with it.

I think an inspired translation of their comments would help you to understand them better.

"I know your religion better than you do" usually means "I've been told something about your religion that I don't think you're been told yet". Often followed by some half-truth or misrepresentation.

"...did you know that Brigham Young once said 160 years ago that..." usually means "I don't know if you know but I've been told that Brigham Young once said 160 years ago that...". Often followed by some half-truth or misrepresentation from their pastor who misrepresented what Brigham Young actually meant.

I'm sorry to vent. I'm just getting Facebook messages from some friends, and it seems so unchristian to hear some of the bunk they've been fed by their pastors and at their anti-mormon seminars. The true differences are stark enough. You don't have to bear false witness to show that there are fundamental differences. Just sayin'

Yeah, well, sometimes they just get carried away.

[mormonnewb]

I had a conversation with an Evangelist about all the bad things said about the church ==>>

Well, let's suppose that there really was the true church of Christ on the earth today. How do you think the rest of the world would respond to it -- the press, the other churches, etc. What would they say?

He thought for a moment, and said he got my point.

Great point! I had someone ask me if we really had orgies in our temples? In response, I simply asked him, "If we had orgies in our temples, do you think we'd only have 15 million members worldwide? Heck, we'd have 30 million in California ... and YOU would be one of them." He conceded the point. Edited October 4, 2014 by mormonnewb

[Storm Rider]

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt here, and not believe that you intended to display the bigotry I see. Really, don't trust non Mormons because they're just waiting for the opportune moment to light you up? I can assure you, I know of no one who is of this mind.

 

Saemo, you may have misunderstood and I more than likely wrote poorly - after the Mormon are burned the Evangelicals would then be looking to burn Catholics and Jews.

 

On the other hand, if you did understand me correctly, I may be a bigot.  I don't distrust non-Mormons - I am very distrustful of Evangelicals as a group.  As I said above, when meeting in person you know rather quickly if an Evangelical can be a friend or a good acquaintance without letting me being a Mormon getting in the way of their willingness to accept me as a human - even one that could be a bigot.  

 

I appreciate that you don't know of anyone of this mind.  Having grown up in the south you may not know some of the Evangelicals I have known or how they have so poorly treated the Mormon people in my community.  I wish I could say it was part of the day of decades ago, but it continues unto this day.  Mormons and Catholics, they having an even smaller congregation than Mormons were likewise thought to be the spawn of Satan and were treated just as poorly as Mormons. 

[mfbukowski]

My favorite isn't when a lie is told.  It's when an actual belief of the Church is announced like it's news to us and should shock us to our core.

When in fact we already knew that...

"Did you know that you believe that Jesus was the BROTHER OF SATAN????"

 

.....oh gosh, not again..... 

[mfbukowski]

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt here, and not believe that you intended to display the bigotry I see. Really, don't trust non Mormons because they're just waiting for the opportune moment to light you up? I can assure you, I know of no one who is of this mind.

And of course you have no chip on your shoulder either, and this post illustrates your peaceful nature waiting in the wings to give hugs to your fellow Christians.

[EllenMaksoud]

Maybe they don't want to find out the truth about what we believe because they may actually start to believe it themselves.

They are cautioned to avoid any other doctrine than that of Jesus Christ, not realizing how far off they themselves are. And, if you are going to confront a Pastor with scripture he will mostly go to that denominations interpretation of the scripture that is often far from what we would think. 

[Tacenda]

My favorite isn't when a lie is told. It's when an actual belief of the Church is announced like it's news to us and should shock us to our core.

When in fact we already knew that...

That's where transparency in the church will work out well.

[Tacenda]

I was Evangelical from 1974 to 2004, you do the math. There was a brief stint in the RLDS church. We were searching.

The Bible can be spun, and to add to the confusion, there are some EV folk who actually do seek Jesus the Christ, but they are largely silent. So, the Pastors go to Bible College and then to Seminary, it's confusing. I have a dear friend who is a Four-Square Pastor, and to keep his license, he must tow the church line. He can't preach about compassion for gays and "other sinners" One of the things that propelled me out of the ranks of the EV was a certain TV Evangelist shouting and pounding the pulpit and saying "All Muslims are going to HELL!" After that and a few other things, the church did not seem real, and Jesus did not either.

Still, the first Commandment in the OT is clear. "I am the Lord thy God and thou shall have no other God's before me". It was also very clear to me that the slash job that the Media and our government was doing on all Muslims was just bogus. And after years of vague hate filled generalities, Islam seemed like the only true religion.

It hurt me a lot that Pastors can get up there and demean women (In some EV churches, woman can not mount the pulpit unless a man is there too). Most unnerving to me is that Pastors can yell from the pulpit. I have heard them shout about gays, Muslims, and it has made me ask, where is Jesus in all this hate speech?

So, after being gone from their ranks for a decade, I can see some moderation in their ranks. The "Stop Murdering Us" campaign had some effect, and then the Evangelical Discovery of Mormons was pure shock for them. There was a gathering of one of the main bodies of Evangelicals in which one of their members, gave a message complaining that Mormons are doing a better job than us. This was really surprising because one of my issues with EV folk is that they like to predatorize others, even members of their own flock. I have just moved, so please do not ask me to locate the printed copy. One of these days, the person who loaned it to me will ask for it back and I live in fear of that.

One thing that is absolutely unique about Mormons is no matter what I have done, I've never been made to feel guilty or devalued. They always speak of moving on and growing. If you have never sat in an Evangelical "Circle of Sin", you have never lived. It is comprised of a circle of chairs with one in the middle. The sinner is placed in the middle and the righteous occupy the the outer circle. I made it through several "correctors", got up and left and went straight to Islam.

Yes, Mormons are peculiar, delightfully so!

You're so right, I need to keep all of what you've said in mind, except it is the reason for my constant fencesitting. Edited October 4, 2014 by Tacenda

[JLHPROF]

That's where transparency in the church will work out well.

 

Transparency is definitely getting better.

 

But the big "shockers" that we get told by evangelicals we already know about our own religion.  They're not going to make us drop our jaws and abandon the Church.

[EllenMaksoud]

I wish I was.  I grew up near Manti, Utah.  From the time I was very young I listened to this stuff.  I'm old enough to have watched the arguments change somewhat, but mostly remain the same.  I guess after decades of trying to reason with these people, I really just found myself (yesterday) realizing that many of them don't even believe it themselves.  Like I said, there is plenty there that is true to argue about.  If you have to make stuff up, you must fear the truth.  Reminds me of what the pharisees did to Jesus.  I find myself wanting to do a Jack Nicholas imitation, "You can't handle the truth!"

I'm 67. It is never too late to join the church.