Ok - Seriously. Where Do You (Evangelical) Guys Get This Stuff.

[EllenMaksoud]

You're so right, I need to keep all of what you've said in mind, except it is the reason for my constant fencesitting.

Well, I am the consummate fence sitter. Um not actually fence sitting, but how many Mormon women do you know that walks the streets in Hijab, has many Muslim friends and talks to them about Isa PBUH (Jesus Christ) and Allah SWT (God) and areas that we can come to agreement on. Much to my amazement, no Mormon has chewed me out. If I was Evangelical, I would be back in the circle of sin.

Edited October 5, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[Tacenda]

That's probably why we gravitate to Mormonism. They're taught to be loving people. I believe the church has evolved in this direction for many eons, that's what makes it great. Not sure it's the only true church, but believe in it's ideals and that of following Christ.

[ERayR]

That's where transparency in the church will work out well.

 

How?

[Tacenda]

My quote function's not working but ERay, it will help members know all the warts and not act shocked at what the EV's throw at them. They can reply that they already know about such and such a thing and the facts surrounding it, and even the fact that men are fallible, not perfect.

[Kenngo1969]

It was interesting to walk past the street screechers, and through more than one line of missionaries/youth/young people singing hymns in response) back to our transportation after my group sang in the afternoon session today (Yes, yes, I know we were awesome; yes, I know you loved us.  Thanks!  (363 awesome voices and, well ... me.   ))

Edited October 5, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[boblloyd91]

It was interesting to walk past the street screechers, and through more than one line of missionaries/youth/young people singing hymns in response) back to our transportation after my group sang in the afternoon session today (Yes, yes, I know we were awesome; yes, I know you loved us.  Thanks!  (364 awesome voices and, well ... me.  ))

So you were in the choir from Tooele area? Cool! Out of curiosity how were the street preachers? A movie came out this past year about an LDS man and a street preacher named Ruben Israel, who became friends. I have wondered at times if the anti Mormons ever feel like they need to change their tactics to "reach" us better. I don't think the efforts of the street preachers has really brought much fruit.

[mormonnewb]

So you were in the choir from Tooele area? Cool! Out of curiosity how were the street preachers? A movie came out this past year about an LDS man and a street preacher named Ruben Israel, who became friends. I have wondered at times if the anti Mormons ever feel like they need to change their tactics to "reach" us better. I don't think the efforts of the street preachers has really brought much fruit.

If I didn't know better, I would think that they were on the LDS payroll. Regardless of how one feels about the truth claims of the Church, it's hard to side with the street preachers as they harangue some nice family or a group of earnest young missionaries.

[Storm Rider]

If I didn't know better, I would think that they were on the LDS payroll. Regardless of how one feels about the truth claims of the Church, it's hard to side with the street preachers as they harangue some nice family or a group of earnest young missionaries.

 

I find them offensive, but I also realize that in their minds, most of them, I expect them to think that they are saving lost souls.  They come from a culture where street preaching has a long history and a method of witnessing to the lost.  The idea of productivity probably is not addressed; however I hope that some would occasionally consider how offensive some of them are or have been. 

 

Our missionaries have a different approach, a different style and that has evolved over since the Restoration.  We do what we think works to reach those who are seeking regardless of their religion or any other qualifier.  

 

On the Church's payroll; you do know how to ingratiate yourself into the hearts of others. 

[saemo]

Saemo, you may have misunderstood and I more than likely wrote poorly - after the Mormon are burned the Evangelicals would then be looking to burn Catholics and Jews.

On the other hand, if you did understand me correctly, I may be a bigot. I don't distrust non-Mormons - I am very distrustful of Evangelicals as a group. As I said above, when meeting in person you know rather quickly if an Evangelical can be a friend or a good acquaintance without letting me being a Mormon getting in the way of their willingness to accept me as a human - even one that could be a bigot.

I appreciate that you don't know of anyone of this mind. Having grown up in the south you may not know some of the Evangelicals I have known or how they have so poorly treated the Mormon people in my community. I wish I could say it was part of the day of decades ago, but it continues unto this day. Mormons and Catholics, they having an even smaller congregation than Mormons were likewise thought to be the spawn of Satan and were treated just as poorly as Mormons.

I have family on one side, from Georgia, who are 1st generation converts to Mormonism. At the news of my conversion to Catholicism, they were the most kind and cordial of all my family. Others, all Mormons, unfriended me from Facebook and have been so rude to me in person, in public, that I was embarrassed for them. I avoid those particular relatives now. Only a few occasions where I can't avoid being in the same room. I never thought about lighting them on fire. Maybe that indicates a lack of imagination.

And yes, I spent some time in the Catholic threads at CARM, years ago. I guess I never took them personally or seriously enough to feel my life was in danger. There are some colorful characters participating there. It struck me as silly that only Evangelicals are allowed in the Bible study threads. I'd rather hang out in Bible study, than the Catholic threads there. Not to argue but to understand what is believed. I got bored there after a while.

Edited October 5, 2014 by saemo

[blooit]

I find them offensive, but I also realize that in their minds, most of them, I expect them to think that they are saving lost souls.  They come from a culture where street preaching has a long history and a method of witnessing to the lost.  The idea of productivity probably is not addressed; however I hope that some would occasionally consider how offensive some of them are or have been. 

 

Our missionaries have a different approach, a different style and that has evolved over since the Restoration.  We do what we think works to reach those who are seeking regardless of their religion or any other qualifier.  

 

On the Church's payroll; you do know how to ingratiate yourself into the hearts of others. 

I disagree.  You can't behave like that when motivated by the love of Jesus Christ.  There are a few exceptions, but the cruelty I have seen there tells me they are motivated by hate - pure and simple.

[Storm Rider]

I have family on one side, from Georgia, who are 1st generation converts to Mormonism. At the news of my conversion to Catholicism, they were the most kind and cordial of all my family. Others, all Mormons, unfriended me from Facebook and have been so rude to me in person, in public, that I was embarrassed for them. I avoid those particular relatives now. Only a few occasions where I can't avoid being in the same room. I never thought about lighting them on fire. Maybe that indicates a lack of imagination.

And yes, I spent some time in the Catholic threads at CARM, years ago. I guess I never took them personally or seriously enough to feel my life was in danger. There are some colorful characters participating there. It struck me as silly that only Evangelicals are allowed in the Bible study threads. I'd rather hang out in Bible study, than the Catholic threads there. Not to argue but to understand what is believed. I got bored there after a while.

 

Saemo, I think my statement was to the effect that if there ever came a time when they started burning Mormons the Evangelicals would lead the charge - not that they want to now burn Mormons at the stake.  No one to my knowledge in the US at the present time wants to burn Mormons, Catholics, Jews, or even Muslims at the stake in the US.  The issue for me is one of distrust.  That is all; let's move on. 

[Senator]

Saemo, I think my statement was to the effect that if there ever came a time when they started burning Mormons the Evangelicals would lead the charge - not that they want to now burn Mormons at the stake.  No one to my knowledge in the US at the present time wants to burn Mormons, Catholics, Jews, or even Muslims at the stake in the US.  The issue for me is one of distrust.  That is all; let's move on. 

 

That's a pretty offensive hypothetical.

 

Just sayin

[strappinglad]

The Bosnia war starkly illustrated just how quickly people of different faiths who have lived peacefully as neighbors for decades, gone to each others weddings and funerals , and been 'friends' , turned on each other and , yes, burned down houses with whole families inside. Never underestimate the capacity of humans to be inhumane.

[Kenngo1969]

So you were in the choir from Tooele area? Cool! Out of curiosity how were the street preachers? A movie came out this past year about an LDS man and a street preacher named Ruben Israel, who became friends. I have wondered at times if the anti Mormons ever feel like they need to change their tactics to "reach" us better. I don't think the efforts of the street preachers has really brought much fruit.

I don't really have too much to say about them.  I was too busy trying to keep up with folks who set a vigorous pace walking to the underground parking at the Church Office Building so I wouldn't miss my ride home.  I think you're right about the tactics of the screechers.  From what I understand, some have attempted to abandon the bullhorn, fire-and-brimstone approach in favor of engaging individual Conference-goers in conversation, but, as I say, I was otherwise occupied and didn't have time for that.  

[dianaiad]

But did they have stakes and flames prepared?

Well, one of my mission experiences involved real rocks that drew real blood and left a real scar. Does that count?

[dianaiad]

"Did you know that you believe that Jesus was the BROTHER OF SATAN????"

 

.....oh gosh, not again..... 

I remember the first time I heard that one. I think I blew the guy's mind when I turned around, and with a bewildered look, said "well, yeah...didn't you figure that out from the lesson on the Plan of Salvation?  What's your point?"

[mfbukowski]

Well, one of my mission experiences involved real rocks that drew real blood and left a real scar. Does that count?

Do I remember you from my old days at CAF?

 

I'm looking forward to your posts!

[Storm Rider]

That's a pretty offensive hypothetical.

 

Just sayin

 

I can see where a naive person would feel that way.  Just sayin. 

[Sandy Petersen]

When confronted by the "Jesus brother of Satan" claim, I pointed out that we believed that we were ALL children of our Heavenly Father, Christ as the first-born, and that, therefore, Satan was a child of God too, just like us.. I then iterated that this does not mean that we like Satan. My friend (who, admittedly was not a rabid evangelical), actually understood my point, and said it made sense that if we were all brothers and sisters then obviously Satan would be one too, though a rejected one. 

 

Not saying this approach would work with someone who is only hoping to shock or attack, but I was happy with the results. (I live in Texas.)

[Storm Rider]

When confronted by the "Jesus brother of Satan" claim, I pointed out that we believed that we were ALL children of our Heavenly Father, Christ as the first-born, and that, therefore, Satan was a child of God too, just like us.. I then iterated that this does not mean that we like Satan. My friend (who, admittedly was not a rabid evangelical), actually understood my point, and said it made sense that if we were all brothers and sisters then obviously Satan would be one too, though a rejected one. 

 

Not saying this approach would work with someone who is only hoping to shock or attack, but I was happy with the results. (I live in Texas.)

 

This only works on the ignorant and those who do not think - it is sensationalistic in approach, but without value for the thinking individual.  That does not mean the it is not used, but only that it does not really have an impact on part of their flock. 

[teddyaware]

When confronted by the "Jesus brother of Satan" claim, I pointed out that we believed that we were ALL children of our Heavenly Father, Christ as the first-born, and that, therefore, Satan was a child of God too, just like us.. I then iterated that this does not mean that we like Satan. My friend (who, admittedly was not a rabid evangelical), actually understood my point, and said it made sense that if we were all brothers and sisters then obviously Satan would be one too, though a rejected one. 

 

Not saying this approach would work with someone who is only hoping to shock or attack, but I was happy with the results. (I live in Texas.)

Does the fact that God the Father created the being who became Satan make Him (God) guilty by association as well? It seems to me that if the logic of the anti-Mormons is sound, we have a lot more to fear from the being who created Satan than from the One who is merely the evil Satan's godfearing and obedient brother. And are all the righteous angels who weren't cast out of heaven, because they remained loyal to God, also tainted with some sort of stain because they are the brothers of Satan?

Edited October 8, 2014 by teddyaware

[EllenMaksoud]

I can see:  King James Bible John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

This was addressed to the leaders of the Jews.

 

Genisis 3:4 is significant, as is 2 Chronicles 18:21, and Matt 12:34

 

Most of my learning is from an Evangelical perspective, so to see Jesus as the brother of the devil takes some time for me. It is never said in EV circles. This discussion is helping me to turn the corner on Mormon Doctrine.

[cdowis]

The point of this statement is that Mormons believe in a different Jesus.   As nonbelievers would say to the Christians, "You actually drink the blood and eat the flesh of your god?"

[thesometimesaint]

I can see:  King James Bible John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

This was addressed to the leaders of the Jews.

 

Genisis 3:4 is significant, as is 2 Chronicles 18:21, and Matt 12:34

 

Most of my learning is from an Evangelical perspective, so to see Jesus as the brother of the devil takes some time for me. It is never said in EV circles. This discussion is helping me to turn the corner on Mormon Doctrine.

 

One way to address the issue is to ask a question: If your brother/sister rebelled against your parents seeking their lives. Would that make you their non brother/sister?

[saemo]

The point of this statement is that Mormons believe in a different Jesus.   As nonbelievers would say to the Christians, "You actually drink the blood and eat the flesh of your god?"

Evangelicals reject the doctrine of the Real Presence.