Mormons "getting Their Own Planet" (Merged)

[Sanpitch]

The whole "get your own planet" thing is nonsense so don't worry about it.

I know it's nonsense but many members, or at least some, still believe it.  I've had a couple of siblings that tried to explain to me that you do get your own planet if you're worthy of course.  Maybe the church leaders should clarify the issue, the idea came from church leaders and their writings. 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Sanpitch

[ERayR]

Just answer his question ERayR, why don't you do that?  I know the people he speaks of, his siblings are my relatives.  Sanpitch isn't grabbing a straw man.  His siblings are very stalwart members of the church.  My mom is his cousin!  I love that we connected here on the board.  If you met Sanpitch, you'd know he's sincere. 

 

You misunderstand I did not say or mean to imply that Sanpitch is insincere.  What I thought I was saying is the "get your own planet" thing is, as Alan says "nonsense".  Don't worry about it.

[Tacenda]

You misunderstand I did not say or mean to imply that Sanpitch is insincere.  What I thought I was saying is the "get your own planet" thing is, as Alan says "nonsense".  Don't worry about it.

Sorry if I took it that way.  I guess, if we do have planets, we can possibly visit our kids, parents, relatives and friends like we visit them at their homes in towns all over the world, but this would be all over the galaxy.  I guess it's plausible, to travel at lightning speed. 

[JLHPROF]

 

Has the complications of a person's descendants populating their own planet been discussed here recently, maybe on the "...your own Planet" thread?  That thread is too long to check through and see what's there.

 

My siblings are involved in counting my mom and dad's descendants.  I try to explain to them that with each generation the descendants are also descended from other parents and the bloodline is diluted till there's only a trace of the original parents.  With only a few generations they are descended from hundreds of other parents.  The same principal works by looking back at ancestors.

 

So assuming all parties are worthy, their offspring will be on the private planet, but their spouses will also belong to another planet and their offspring will also belong to many other planets.  How on Earth is it going to work if the belief in "getting you own planet" is valid at all.  To me it's impossible.  Unless of course they all marry into the same family without outsiders being involved.  That has actually been tried here in Utah with the Kingston cult.  They believed that they should keep the bloodline pure and marry their close relatives.  One seventeen year old girl was beat by her father because she wouldn't marry or maybe live with her fathers brother. The father wound up in prison as I remember.

 

I'm curious what those who believe in getting their own planet feel about this subject.

 

Ed  The more I think about it the more complicated it gets.  All worthy sons of the original parents want their own planet, they won't accept a planet owned by dad, so who lives on mom and dad's planet?

 

 

Ok, I've read this three times and I am not getting your concern?

What is so complicated about you and your wife becoming a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother to a new creation and providing the spirit children to go down and receive bodies?  Pretty simple doctrine.

 

ETA - On 4th read - are you actually thinking the doctrine is "which planet we live on - our own or our parents?"  That's not the teaching at all.

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by JLHPROF

[ERayR]

So you have people believing Adam is God, others believing he is not, some siding with JFS and SWK, others with BY. Some against LGBT, other for LGBT, some for women and the PH, others not. All under the blanket of personal revelation being the curve for truth.

 

No wonder we are in trouble as a body, we have not real yardstick for truth anymore.

 

If you mean we have no creed we have to believe then I guess so.  I prefer to follow Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and . . .  I do not choose up sides.  What worries me the most is we have too many members too lazy or unwilling to search out and receive personal revelation.  I like Joseph Smith yearn for the day when each member becomes a prophet in their own right.  Wouldn't that be glorious.

[Storm Rider]

 

Has the complications of a person's descendants populating their own planet been discussed here recently, maybe on the "...your own Planet" thread?  That thread is too long to check through and see what's there.

 

My siblings are involved in counting my mom and dad's descendants.  I try to explain to them that with each generation the descendants are also descended from other parents and the bloodline is diluted till there's only a trace of the original parents.  With only a few generations they are descended from hundreds of other parents.  The same principal works by looking back at ancestors.

 

So assuming all parties are worthy, their offspring will be on the private planet, but their spouses will also belong to another planet and their offspring will also belong to many other planets.  How on Earth is it going to work if the belief in "getting you own planet" is valid at all.  To me it's impossible.  Unless of course they all marry into the same family without outsiders being involved.  That has actually been tried here in Utah with the Kingston cult.  They believed that they should keep the bloodline pure and marry their close relatives.  One seventeen year old girl was beat by her father because she wouldn't marry or maybe live with her fathers brother. The father wound up in prison as I remember.

 

I'm curious what those who believe in getting their own planet feel about this subject.

 

Ed  The more I think about it the more complicated it gets.  All worthy sons of the original parents want their own planet, they won't accept a planet owned by dad, so who lives on mom and dad's planet?

 

 

San, I think you have identified the logical error of those who have accepted this bit of folklore.  The Church, to my knowledge, has never taught that a single set of parents will create and populate a single world.  

 

Incest is the a logical demand of those who do accept this kind of concept.

 

What the Bible teaches is that we will be joint-heirs with Christ and through him we will share in God's glory.  The most I will discuss in this mystery is that we will become laborers in his Kingdom as he continues to create worlds without number.  That participation can be at any level he chooses for us to function - we will be doing his will.

[JLHPROF]

Incest is the a logical demand of those who do accept this kind of concept.

 

 

No such thing as incest in the heavenly realms.  We are all brothers and sisters.  Christ's mother was the daughter of his father, making him his own nephew.

[ERayR]

Sorry if I took it that way.  I guess, if we do have planets, we can possibly visit our kids, parents, relatives and friends like we visit them at their homes in towns all over the world, but this would be all over the galaxy.  I guess it's plausible, to travel at lightning speed. 

 

You still misunderstand, and you are better than that.  The "have your own planet" is all shtick. We will be heirs to all that God has.  This does not mean we divide it all up into yours, mine and theirs.  It is still Gods and he shares with us the work of "bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life. . . ".

[JLHPROF]

So you have people believing Adam is God, others believing he is not, some siding with JFS and SWK, others with BY. Some against LGBT, other for LGBT, some for women and the PH, others not. All under the blanket of personal revelation being the curve for truth.

 

No wonder we are in trouble as a body, we have not real yardstick for truth anymore.

 

And exactly which "yardstick" would you like to use?

I agree with ERayR - I follow Joseph, the head of this dispensation who reports directly to our Savior.

 

I guess you could say I have a primacy bias whereas a lot of members have a recency bias.

[Randall57]

 

Has the complications of a person's descendants populating their own planet been discussed here recently, maybe on the "...your own Planet" thread?  That thread is too long to check through and see what's there.

 

My siblings are involved in counting my mom and dad's descendants.  I try to explain to them that with each generation the descendants are also descended from other parents and the bloodline is diluted till there's only a trace of the original parents.  With only a few generations they are descended from hundreds of other parents.  The same principal works by looking back at ancestors.

 

So assuming all parties are worthy, their offspring will be on the private planet, but their spouses will also belong to another planet and their offspring will also belong to many other planets.  How on Earth is it going to work if the belief in "getting you own planet" is valid at all.  To me it's impossible.  Unless of course they all marry into the same family without outsiders being involved.  That has actually been tried here in Utah with the Kingston cult.  They believed that they should keep the bloodline pure and marry their close relatives.  One seventeen year old girl was beat by her father because she wouldn't marry or maybe live with her fathers brother. The father wound up in prison as I remember.

 

I'm curious what those who believe in getting their own planet feel about this subject.

 

Ed  The more I think about it the more complicated it gets.  All worthy sons of the original parents want their own planet, they won't accept a planet owned by dad, so who lives on mom and dad's planet?

 

I think it falls under the families are forever concept.

 

 

If you have ten siblings worthy of eternal life.  They all marry and have different spouses. Each spouse has worthy parents and siblings that are married to different spouses who are also worthy-and so on and so on. If each family receives eternal life, creates their own world for their spirit children how can families be forever?

 

I believe we are on the same page of this not being a very logical reality.

 

This does not factor in unworthy siblings that have a lower estate.

[JLHPROF]

I think it falls under the families are forever concept.

 

 

If you have ten siblings worthy of eternal life.  They all marry and have different spouses. Each spouse has worthy parents and siblings that are married to different spouses who are also worthy-and so on and so on. If each family receives eternal life, creates their own world for their spirit children how can families be forever?

 

I believe we are on the same page of this not being a very logical reality.

 

This does not factor in unworthy siblings that have a lower estate.

 

Really?  Your big concern is whether you get to live with your brothers and sisters for all eternity rather than create new worlds?

Well I have good news for you then.  You get both! 

 

(Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one left who still believes in the doctrines of the restoration beyond the atonement).

Edited November 25, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Mars]

Really?  Your big concern is whether you get to live with your brothers and sisters for all eternity rather than create new worlds?

Well I have good news for you then.  You get both! 

 

(Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one left who still believes in the doctrines of the restoration beyond the atonement).

 

i prefer to just keep my musings on how things will be in the eternities to myself.

[Storm Rider]

No such thing as incest in the heavenly realms.  We are all brothers and sisters.  Christ's mother was the daughter of his father, making him his own nephew.

 

Yes, and no such thing as incest on this earth.  We are all supposed to be brothers and sisters.  Does that make you feel better now?  Does that provide enough shock for the evolutionists?  When you stretch things out to the nth degree then what you say has value, but the actual reality of it is more nuanced. How many generations must pass before it is not incest?  

 

Still a boring topic except for those that are easily titillated.  

[The Nehor]

I am going to rule whole universes not just only paltry little mudball.

[JLHPROF]

I am going to rule whole universes not just only paltry little mudball.

 

Eventually, that is true.  What do you think worlds without number means?

 

It all comes down to whether we believe we can actually become just like Heavenly Father or not.

Some like to limit that teaching because they can't see themselves ever creating worlds without number and doing all that he has done.

It's leftover traditional Christianity creeping into Mormonism.

Edited November 25, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Sanpitch]

I think it falls under the families are forever concept.

 

 

If you have ten siblings worthy of eternal life.  They all marry and have different spouses. Each spouse has worthy parents and siblings that are married to different spouses who are also worthy-and so on and so on. If each family receives eternal life, creates their own world for their spirit children how can families be forever?

 

I believe we are on the same page of this not being a very logical reality.

 

This does not factor in unworthy siblings that have a lower estate.

Exactly what I'm trying to say.

[ERayR]

Really?  Your big concern is whether you get to live with your brothers and sisters for all eternity rather than create new worlds?

Well I have good news for you then.  You get both! 

 

(Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one left who still believes in the doctrines of the restoration beyond the atonement).

 

I sometimes think that Joseph, Brigham and the early prophets and apostles would pull their hair out today.  All these years trying to make Latter-Day Saints and they are still protestant sectarians.

[Sanpitch]

Ok, I've read this three times and I am not getting your concern?

What is so complicated about you and your wife becoming a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother to a new creation and providing the spirit children to go down and receive bodies?  Pretty simple doctrine.

 

ETA - On 4th read - are you actually thinking the doctrine is "which planet we live on - our own or our parents?"  That's not the teaching at all.

 

No not the doctrine but the belief that some people have.  Maybe it's now not the teaching but I think it has been in the past.  The people have had a reason to believe something of this sort.

[Randall57]

And exactly which "yardstick" would you like to use?

I agree with ERayR - I follow Joseph, the head of this dispensation who reports directly to our Savior.

 

I guess you could say I have a primacy bias whereas a lot of members have a recency bias.

 

You most likely only follow Joseph if it fits into your box. But that is besides the point. the yardstick first needs to be consistent, right know more that ever it is moving. In the 60s, and 70s it was much different we had a yardstick in the FP, and DOM. Today, and due to the Internet, there are so many rabbit trails and options for doctrines that it gets confusing. So to answer your question, those that hold the keys need to be the yardstick.

[Robert F. Smith]

The whole "get your own planet" thing is nonsense so don't worry about it.

Maybe it is all nonsense, and most of us need not worry about it.  After all, it is part of the overall plan of salvation which takes care of itself without our interference.

 

After he reached His exalted state, God our Father (and his wife or wives) started with many spirit children by organizing a multitude of intelligences and somehow providing spirit bodies for them all.  Probably in the trillions, and no way to tell how long all that took or what sort of skill or reproductive capacity that entails.  However, for his first planet for all those spirit children, God held a Council of decision, formulated a plan, followed by a raucous discussion.  A decision was made.  One third of the spirit children said "No," and were ejected from God's kingdom of heaven.  The rest of us sang for joy, participated in the organizing of a new planet, and began the long process of human birth and death (getting physical bodies), making us part of God's permanent family, continuing into eternity, worlds without end.  God our Father will continue to organize new planets and people them for eternity.  There was no beginning, there shall be no end.

 

Naturally, God has a mother & father, and He was once their spirit child, and then was born human, and finally was exalted.  In so doing he has trillions of relatives, both close and distant, from that planetary experience in a galaxy far, far away, and a long time ago.  He retains all those relations through eternity, and his ability to communicate with all those relatives (including a multiplicity of grandparents and greatgrandparents, etc., ad infinitum) is presumably godlike and instantaneous.

 

Of course the scale is grand and incomprehensible for the human mind, like something out of SciFi, but we have been given hints in Scripture, and some scholars have commented on the matter.

 

In his FARMS Preliminary Report N-APO, "Apocryphal Writings," p. 13, Hugh Nibley said that 

 

All the worlds are organized in a common pattern, . . in all the worlds you will find God alone rules but with a presidency of three and a council of twelve.  This is the rule of all worlds.  The repetitions are infinite in number and scope . . . .  As a Yeu becomes a Father, the Father then appoints new Yeus (Jehovahs) for new worlds who in turn become Fathers, etc. 

 

D&C 128:18,

the earth will be smitten with a curse unless there is a welding link of some kind or other between the fathers and the children, upon some subject or other—and behold what is that subject? It is the baptism for the dead. For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect. Neither can they nor we be made perfect without those who have died in the gospel also; for it is necessary in the ushering in of the dispensation of the fulness of times, which dispensation is now beginning to usher in, that a whole and complete and perfect union, and welding together of dispensations, and keys, and powers, and glories should take place, and be revealed from the days of Adam even to the present time. And not only this, but those things which never have been revealed from thefoundation of the world, but have been kept hid from the wise and prudent, shall be revealed unto babes and sucklings in this, the dispensation of the fulness of times.

 

 

Joseph Smith often spoke of welding humanity together by such means.  It didn't seem like nonsense to him.

[ERayR]

You most likely only follow Joseph if it fits into your box. But that is besides the point. the yardstick first needs to be consistent, right know more that ever it is moving. In the 60s, and 70s it was much different we had a yardstick in the FP, and DOM. Today, and due to the Internet, there are so many rabbit trails and options for doctrines that it gets confusing. So to answer your question, those that hold the keys need to be the yardstick.

 

I have found that if you are studying and getting personal revelation there is no need to have a box.

[JLHPROF]

You most likely only follow Joseph if it fits into your box. But that is besides the point. the yardstick first needs to be consistent, right know more that ever it is moving. In the 60s, and 70s it was much different we had a yardstick in the FP, and DOM. Today, and due to the Internet, there are so many rabbit trails and options for doctrines that it gets confusing.

 

Don't presume to know my beliefs on all things.  I don't "only follow Joseph if it fits into your box".  As head of the dispensation I accept ALL his teachings, including the ones the later day prophets may have doubted.

 

So to answer your question, those that hold the keys need to be the yardstick.

 

Joseph holds the keys over the dispensation, and as such presides over all his successors.  Therefore I will follow his teachings over any successor if there is conflict, especially when the successor claims no revelation on the doctrine.

[JLHPROF]

No not the doctrine but the belief that some people have.  Maybe it's now not the teaching but I think it has been in the past.  The people have had a reason to believe something of this sort.

 

I'm still not sure I am following your posts correctly.

Exactly which doctrine is it you don't agree with?

1. That each of us will live on our own planets separated from our current eternal families.

2. That each of us will have the opportunity (if worthy) to create new worlds for our children and new eternal families.

 

Because #1 is false and #2 is true.

[Tacenda]

 

Yes, and no such thing as incest on this earth.  We are all supposed to be brothers and sisters.  Does that make you feel better now?  Does that provide enough shock for the evolutionists?  When you stretch things out to the nth degree then what you say has value, but the actual reality of it is more nuanced. How many generations must pass before it is not incest?  

 

Still a boring topic except for those that are easily titillated.  

 

I thought this was what made our church stand apart.  I thought some of you thought it boring to be angels in heaven playing a harp or something.  I thought many of you thought it would be super cool to create your own planet...oh, I mean world. 

 

You still misunderstand, and you are better than that.  The "have your own planet" is all shtick. We will be heirs to all that God has.  This does not mean we divide it all up into yours, mine and theirs.  It is still Gods and he shares with us the work of "bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life. . . ".

 

"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done."

 

Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201

[ERayR]

 

 

 

I thought this was what made our church stand apart.  I thought some of you thought it boring to be angels in heaven playing a harp or something.  I thought many of you thought it would be super cool to create your own planet...oh, I mean world. 

 

 

"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done."

 

Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201

 

 

Think of it in terms of mine and yours if you like.  I believe and prefer it to be Gods and he lets it be ours.