Mormons "getting Their Own Planet" (Merged)

[MiserereNobis]

No offense intended but to me that sounds like a "Matrix".  You just take a cubicle and plug in.  A good movie but I don't think I want to spend eternity that way.  I much prefer the LDS version of being involve in Father in Heaven's work.

 

You can't say no offense intended and then say something obviously negative and derogatory.  The Matrix had people enslaved and given a false reality.  If you think that the Catholic Heaven is comparable to that then you are being offensive, which I suppose is ok but don't claim you're not.  If you don't intend the offense, then don't say something offensive

 

As Jesus said (John 17:3):  Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

The Beatific Vision is exactly that: knowing God and knowing Christ, with a direct immediate knowledge that brings perfect happiness. 

 

Paul, to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 13:12):  We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known.

 

Direct, immediate knowledge accompanied by perfect happiness.  This is not the Matrix, where the vision is false.  This is heaven, where the vision is real.  For me, that is a great way to spend eternity -- in union with God experiencing perfect joy, peace, and rest.

 

I'll leave all the work of eternity for you to do

Edited November 12, 2015 by MiserereNobis

[KevinG]

I'll leave all the work of eternity to you

 

I would not be surprised to see the Mormon's forming the Celestial Service Corps.  

[MiserereNobis]

I would not be surprised to see the Mormon's forming the Celestial Service Corps.  

 

Ha!

 

I imagine that whatever Heaven is, those who are there will be perfectly happy with it

Edited November 12, 2015 by MiserereNobis

[ERayR]

Miserere Nobis and ERayR,

 

May you both have the blessings you seek!

 

 

No offense meant.  In the immortal words of Maynard G Crebbs.  Just trying to hold up my end of the conversation.

[MiserereNobis]

No offense meant.  In the immortal words of Maynard G Crebbs.  Just trying to hold up my end of the conversation.

 

We've kinda butted heads for a bit -- I'm sorry if I'm being too sensitive.

 

I enjoy the conversations on this board.  Thanks for being part of that!

[ERayR]

You can't say no offense intended and then say something obviously negative and derogatory.  The Matrix had people enslaved and given a false reality.  If you think that the Catholic Heaven is comparable to that then you are being offensive, which I suppose is ok but don't claim you're not.  If you don't intend the offense, then don't say something offensive

 

As Jesus said (John 17:3):  Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

The Beatific Vision is exactly that: knowing God and knowing Christ, with a direct immediate knowledge that brings perfect happiness. 

 

Paul, to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 13:12):  We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know I part; but then I shall know even as I am known.

 

Direct, immediate knowledge accompanied by perfect happiness.  This is not the Matrix, where the vision is false.  This is heaven, where the vision is real.  For me, that is a great way to spend eternity -- in union with God experiencing perfect joy, peace, and rest.

 

I'll leave all the work of eternity for you to do

 

I apologize.  I did not even think about the enslavement and false vision issues but was only thinking about being plugged in.  As you have stated elsewhere and I have maintained for many years I don't think anybody will be disappointed at the heaven they receive.

 

I will gladly do the work of eternity wherever and whatever my Lord assigns.

[ERayR]

We've kinda butted heads for a bit -- I'm sorry if I'm being too sensitive.

 

I enjoy the conversations on this board.  Thanks for being part of that!

 

I did not mean it as butting heads.  See my last post.

[KevinG]

No offense meant.  In the immortal words of Maynard G Crebbs.  Just trying to hold up my end of the conversation.

 Points for the Bob Denver reference.

 

[stephenpurdy]

Joseph Smith clearly explained in the King Follet discourse that Jesus Christ did what the Father did, which we read about in John 5:19. Jesus Christ led a sinless life. He died for the sins of man. He overcame and was set down in His thrown. Our heavenly Father did the same thing.

 

I dare say that most Latter-day Saints don't really grasp all of that, but they certainly cannot argue with it, unless they want to argue with what Joseph Smith said.

 

I don't think that this is the point of argument.  I think that this is clear, because not only did Joseph Smith say it in the King Follett discourse, but he illustrated this very same idea in 3 different ways!

 

The conflicting ideas come in when people try to go beyond what Joseph said here. 

 

Not only that, but after saying (in 3 different ways) that the Father lived the same kind of life as Jesus did, it bothers me how some turn around and say that would mean God the Father was a sinner or a soul that was saved.

 

-7up

Edited November 13, 2015 by stephenpurdy

[VideoGameJunkie]

If anyone else besides Jesus from this earth are exalted then they will be gods who were sinners.

[Bobbieaware]

If anyone else besides Jesus from this earth are exalted then they will be gods who were sinners.

Through the infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice God can make all things new. And through the virtue of that same sacrifice, God remembers the sins of the repentant no more. And since, as Peter said. the atonement of Christ makes the faithful "partakers of the divine nature," what is your point? That God isn't powerful enough to make his children like him?

[Tacenda]

 Points for the Bob Denver reference.

 

This was pretty funny, thanks for sharing.  I went on to watching some You Tube of Bob Denver...what a great guy!!

[VideoGameJunkie]

Bobbie I was responding to Stephen who was talking about people who say God made some sins in His mortal life and then was exalted to be God. I said that's the path that everyone here on earth besides Jesus will take if we're lucky to become gods too.

[Bobbieaware]

Bobbie I was responding to Stephen who was talking about people who say God made some sins in His mortal life and then was exalted to be God. I said that's the path that everyone here on earth besides Jesus will take if we're lucky to become gods too.

Thanks for the clarification. All the best.

[stephenpurdy]

Bobbie I was responding to Stephen who was talking about people who say God made some sins in His mortal life and then was exalted to be God. I said that's the path that everyone here on earth besides Jesus will take if we're lucky to become gods too.

 

The question is this;

 

Is there a difference between "gods" who partake of the divine nature by means of Christ's sacrifice, and Gods (like the Father and Jesus Christ) who were already Divine by nature?

 

Many scriptures indicate that there is a "God of gods and Lord of Lords" , or as Joseph indicated "A head God above all other gods".  The scriptures indicate that those who are exalted will continue to worship God and the Lamb.

 

So, I think that there IS a difference between gods and Gods.

 

-Stephen

[Sanpitch]

Anyone happen to notice that so much of the hereafter and what happens there and whether the righteous get their own Earth or even about the main god or lesser god is rather vague. There are tons of different opinions but no one knows.

[JLHPROF]

The question is this;

 

Is there a difference between "gods" who partake of the divine nature by means of Christ's sacrifice, and Gods (like the Father and Jesus Christ) who were already Divine by nature?

 

Many scriptures indicate that there is a "God of gods and Lord of Lords" , or as Joseph indicated "A head God above all other gods".  The scriptures indicate that those who are exalted will continue to worship God and the Lamb.

 

So, I think that there IS a difference between gods and Gods.

 

-Stephen

 

I don't.

There IS a difference in hierarchy of course.  Just as there is an Elders Quorum President, and all the elders.  Just as there is the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (addressed as President) and the other Apostles.

 

So I believe it is with the Gods.  We will all be Gods.  But Christ will preside over all from this earth.  His father will continue to preside over Him.  The Eloheim council will continue to preside over all Gods at the creation of Earths level.  And beyond the Eloheim council we can only dream...

 

There will always be someone above us helping us to progress.  There will always be those we are helping to progress.  But we will be Gods, no lower case "g" needed.

(I really doubt God specified when speaking to Joseph "make sure you mark that "g" with a lower case when you get round to writing this down...don't want all my children thinking they can become like their father.")

[JLHPROF]

Anyone happen to notice that so much of the hereafter and what happens there and whether the righteous get their own Earth or even about the main god or lesser god is rather vague. There are tons of different opinions but no one knows.

 

I stick to what Joseph taught and the people who he taught directly taught.  He and the apostles he called are all pretty consistent and clear.

[ERayR]

I stick to what Joseph taught and the people who he taught directly taught.  He and the apostles he called are all pretty consistent and clear.

 

And pretty intelligent and competent.

[stephenpurdy]

I don't.

There IS a difference in hierarchy of course.  Just as there is an Elders Quorum President, and all the elders.  Just as there is the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (addressed as President) and the other Apostles.

 

So I believe it is with the Gods.  We will all be Gods.  But Christ will preside over all from this earth.  His father will continue to preside over Him.  The Eloheim council will continue to preside over all Gods at the creation of Earths level.  And beyond the Eloheim council we can only dream...

 

There will always be someone above us helping us to progress.  There will always be those we are helping to progress.  But we will be Gods, no lower case "g" needed.

(I really doubt God specified when speaking to Joseph "make sure you mark that "g" with a lower case when you get round to writing this down...don't want all my children thinking they can become like their father.")

 

Perhaps the G or g is indicating is precisely what you indicated, the hierarchy.  Christ and the Father (Gods) preside over "gods".

 

-stephen

[Randall57]

I don't.

There IS a difference in hierarchy of course.  Just as there is an Elders Quorum President, and all the elders.  Just as there is the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (addressed as President) and the other Apostles.

 

So I believe it is with the Gods.  We will all be Gods.  But Christ will preside over all from this earth.  His father will continue to preside over Him.  The Eloheim council will continue to preside over all Gods at the creation of Earths level.  And beyond the Eloheim council we can only dream...

 

There will always be someone above us helping us to progress.  There will always be those we are helping to progress.  But we will be Gods, no lower case "g" needed.

(I really doubt God specified when speaking to Joseph "make sure you mark that "g" with a lower case when you get round to writing this down...don't want all my children thinking they can become like their father.")

 

 Do you believe you will be all knowing-all powerful at some point and time, just as HF is, or do you believe you will always be learning?

 

Gospel Principles chapter 47 reads that those that receive eternal life (exaltation) will have everything he has, and be like him,-so my point or questions is you seem to believe that God/s (HF) are always learning as BY did, while JFS taught HF is all knowing and there is nothing he does nit know?

[JLHPROF]

 Do you believe you will be all knowing-all powerful at some point and time, just as HF is, or do you believe you will always be learning?

 

Gospel Principles chapter 47 reads that those that receive eternal life (exaltation) will have everything he has, and be like him,-so my point or questions is you seem to believe that God/s (HF) are always learning as BY did, while JFS taught HF is all knowing and there is nothing he does nit know?

 

I believe HF is always learning.

[Randall57]

I believe HF is always learning.

 

That is interesting. I personally believe as President Smith, and the current leadership (as far as I know)  that God is all knowing, and that there is nothing that God does not know.

 

What, in your opinion, is HF still learning? 

[MiserereNobis]

I believe HF is always learning.

 

This obviously implies that He knows more now than he did in the past, which leaves open the possibility that in the past He acted on imperfect knowledge and therefore did something that was not entirely perfect or good.

 

It's hard to be all-good without being all-knowing.

 

What do you think?

[MDalby]

I believe HF is always learning.

 

 

So if Heavenly Father is still learning...

 

• Is it then possible that some of the things He thought were true are not correct? 
• Is it possible that the whole plan of salvation is not the best option?  
• Maybe there is a better plan of salvation that He just hasn't known about yet? 
• Maybe there will be something that will happen that will totally surprise Heavenly Father and he will say, "Oh no!!!  What do we do now?  That blindsided me.  This whole plan of salvation was a good first draft but there are some miscalculations and assumptions that are based on a false premise.  I guess I better go back to the drawing board and see if there is a better option out there."

Edited November 23, 2015 by MDalby