VideoGameJunkie Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Ya it's common nowadays. We've had recent apostles who have done it. One surprisingly that didn't was Richard G Scott who lost his wife in 1995 and never remarried. Russell Nelson Dallin Oaks L Tom Perry and Howard W Hunter have been sealed to 2 women.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 I just wonder why there wasn't polygamy with Adam or Noah because those are the 2 times in history when polygamy would be most appropriate to populate and repopulate the earth.
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 I just wonder why there wasn't polygamy with Adam or Noah because those are the 2 times in history when polygamy would be most appropriate to populate and repopulate the earth. Just because it wasn't written doesn't mean it wasn't there.Bible doesn't mention Isaac was a polygamist, but God said he was in D&C 132. Not everything was recorded in the Bible. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 I just wonder why there wasn't polygamy with Adam or Noah because those are the 2 times in history when polygamy would be most appropriate to populate and repopulate the earth.We don't know that Adam and Noah were not polygamists, and one of their contemporaries, Lamech, had two wives, Adah and Zillah (Gen 4:19).
halconero Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Just because it wasn't written doesn't mean it wasn't there.Bible doesn't mention Isaac was a polygamist, but God said he was in D&C 132. Not everything was recorded in the Bible.If you're looking for Latter-day Saint sources, Brigham of course preached that Adam was a polygamist before he even arrived here.Or if you want to dig in to Rabbinc sources there's always Lilith of course. 1
Tony Frank Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Your CFR fails. You propose that polygamy is required for a fullness of joy and exaltation. 19th century prophets and apostles have taught this I agree. Has it been codified as official LDS doctrine.And yes personally I think the idea that polygamy is required for the highest reward God has for humans is hooey. On the contrary, polygamy is certainly NOT required for celestial glory, but rejecting any of Jesus Christ's doctrine will most certainly keep someone out of the celestial kingdom. My post, which you obviously misinterpreted, stated:As far as the "next life" goes, any man or woman who receives celestial glory will have a fullness of joy, and it will not matter in the least to a woman if her husband has more than one wife. If polygamy in the celestial kingdom is a problem for a woman in this life, then she will not receive celestial glory.
ERayR Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 My family tree goes back to Joseph Smith so I have polygamist ancestors too. In fact I have current relatives who are heavenly polygamists. I have 2 uncles who are sealed to 2 different women. 1 had his first wife die and remarried, and the other divorced in court, but didn't get a sealing cancellation, then remarried his 2nd wife in a civil ceremony, then a few years later got First Presidency approval to be sealed to his 2nd wife too in the temple. That's 2 uncles who are going to be with multiple wives in heaven. Maybe 1
Teancum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 On the contrary, polygamy is certainly NOT required for celestial glory, but rejecting any of Jesus Christ's doctrine will most certainly keep someone out of the celestial kingdom. My post, which you obviously misinterpreted, stated:So even though is may not be required if someone in their heart has a problem with polygamy they won't inherit the celestial kingdom?Now there is logic for you.Of course applying your premiss it mean if someone has struggle with any of Christ's doctrine no matter what it they won't inherit a celestial glory. I reject this. Joseph Smith taught that even after we die and receive a glory it will be a long time before we are perfect on our own. Christ's doctrine of grace is he makes up for our shortfalls...."after all we can do." If you are arguing that we have to have all our hang up and weaknesses resolved before judgement then you argue a gospel of perfecting ourselves which is an impossibility and thus nobody will inherit a celestial glory.I could be misunderstanding you. Feel free to clarify .
Teancum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 We don't know that Adam and Noah were not polygamists, and one of their contemporaries, Lamech, had two wives, Adah and Zillah (Gen 4:19).Unless it is spelled out we don't know if they were anything....An argument from silence is a poor argument.
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Unless it is spelled out we don't know if they were anything....An argument from silence is a poor argument. Assuming they weren't instead of assuming they were is no better an argument. The practice was fairly common all through the OT times (see list).(Abdon, Abijah, Abraham, Ahab, Ahasuerus, Ashur, Belshazzar, Benhadad, Caleb, David, Eliphaz, Elkanah, Esau, Ezra, Gideon, Heman, Hosea, Ibzan, Issachar, Jacob, Jair, Jehoiachin, Jehoram, Jerahmeel, Joash, Lamech, Machir, Manasseh, Mered, Moses, Nahor, Rehoboam, Saul, Shaharaim, Shimei, Simeon, Solomon, Terah, Zedekiah, Ziba. - and probably the Brother of Jared, and maybe Lehi). Both Noah and Adam (or possibly Abel in his stead) stood as two of the seven grand heads of dispensations.As such, if they presided over restoration of the gospel in their day, it isn't so farfetched to believe they lived polygamy just as Joseph Smith did. Edited November 28, 2015 by JLHPROF 1
Teancum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Assuming they weren't instead of assuming they were is no better an argument. The practice was fairly common all through the OT times (see list).(Abdon, Abijah, Abraham, Ahab, Ahasuerus, Ashur, Belshazzar, Benhadad, Caleb, David, Eliphaz, Elkanah, Esau, Ezra, Gideon, Heman, Hosea, Ibzan, Issachar, Jacob, Jair, Jehoiachin, Jehoram, Jerahmeel, Joash, Lamech, Machir, Manasseh, Mered, Moses, Nahor, Rehoboam, Saul, Shaharaim, Shimei, Simeon, Solomon, Terah, Zedekiah, Ziba. - and probably the Brother of Jared, and maybe Lehi). Both Noah and Adam (or possibly Abel in his stead) stood as two of the seven grand heads of dispensations.As such, if they presided over restoration of the gospel in their day, it isn't so farfetched to believe they lived polygamy just as Joseph Smith did.You make an argument like this because you think it bolsters the argument for God mandated polygamy. It doesn't. You see even if the Old Testament people practiced polygamy they did it because it was the norm and culture of their time. It was not God mandated but God tolerated. There is nothing in ancient scripture requires polygamy for exaltation and as a religiously commanded ordinance.
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) You make an argument like this because you think it bolsters the argument for God mandated polygamy. It doesn't. You see even if the Old Testament people practiced polygamy they did it because it was the norm and culture of their time. It was not God mandated but God tolerated. There is nothing in ancient scripture requires polygamy for exaltation and as a religiously commanded ordinance. Actually, it does bolster the argument. If it provides the origin of the practice in the culture.If Adam lived it as a law from God, and his sons lived it as a law from God, then down through time most men chose not to live it, except the occasional prophet here and there...well, you do the math. You are saying that polygamy is "either God commanded it/or it was only a cultural practice".It's both. The gospel practice was lived by the dispensations heads. As each dispensation went astray fewer people were compliant with the laws of God OR God was required to revoke it (as in Jacob 2 and 1890). As such it remained only as a cultural practice among some groups. But God was the origin. (Like many of the scattered gospel beliefs we find throughout world cultures.). Edited November 28, 2015 by JLHPROF
Sanpitch Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 You make an argument like this because you think it bolsters the argument for God mandated polygamy. It doesn't. You see even if the Old Testament people practiced polygamy they did it because it was the norm and culture of their time. It was not God mandated but God tolerated. There is nothing in ancient scripture requires polygamy for exaltation and as a religiously commanded ordinance.It happens to be that Joseph Smith is the only one in recorded history that we know of that was commanded and forced to marry more that one woman.
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 It happens to be that Joseph Smith is the only one in recorded history that we know of that was commanded and forced to marry more that one woman. That's because Joseph was the only head of dispensation born into a time when the culture absolutely forbade the practice and incorrectly considered it immoral. He had to overcome all his false traditions to obey God. None of the other time periods when the gospel was on the earth were limited by Victorian era protestant limitations. Not that complicated. If it was completely forbidden in the cultures where Moses or Abraham were born they would have had to be commanded too.
ERayR Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 You make an argument like this because you think it bolsters the argument for God mandated polygamy. It doesn't. You see even if the Old Testament people practiced polygamy they did it because it was the norm and culture of their time. It was not God mandated but God tolerated. There is nothing in ancient scripture requires polygamy for exaltation and as a religiously commanded ordinance. And you see and make the arguments that bolster your POV.
Sanpitch Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 That's because Joseph was the only head of dispensation born into a time when the culture absolutely forbade the practice and incorrectly considered it immoral. He had to overcome all his false traditions to obey God. None of the other time periods when the gospel was on the earth were limited by Victorian era protestant limitations. Not that complicated. If it was completely forbidden in the cultures where Moses or Abraham were born they would have had to be commanded too.OK, good answer that I've never read before, but why was it so important to God? Why was it necessary? To my point of view it was nothing but road blocker for the church and for many of those involved. 1
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 OK, good answer that I've never read before, but why was it so important to God? Why was it necessary? To my point of view it was nothing but road blocker for the church and for many of those involved. D&C 13232 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises. Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles. - Joseph Smith It was necessary because it was an eternal law of God and God cannot violate his own laws. 1
Sanpitch Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) D&C 13232 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises. Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles. - Joseph Smith It was necessary because it was an eternal law of God and God cannot violate his own laws.You are quoting from the D&C but the fact that God commanded it is a little different story in the Bible. Genesis chap 15. I don't see a commandment for Abraham to have an affair with Hagar or any other female. To me the problem with depending on Joseph Smith's writing in the D&C is that the whole case depends on one man. Ed: Whoops Chapter 16, not 15 Edited November 28, 2015 by Sanpitch
ERayR Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 You are quoting from the D&C but the fact that God commanded it is a little different story in the Bible. Genesis chap 15. I don't see a commandment for Abraham to have an affair with Hagar or any other female. To me the problem with depending on Joseph Smith's writing in the D&C is that the whole case depends on one man. And the whole case in the bible also rests on one man, the one who wrote the account we have. The problem is it was so far back we have no idea whose condensed version we are getting.
Sanpitch Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 And the whole case in the bible also rests on one man, the one who wrote the account we have. The problem is it was so far back we have no idea whose condensed version we are getting. Exactly, it's all depending on an old writing that's passed through multiply translations. I've argued before that what we need is an up to date book from God for all people with our history, where we came from, where we're going the rules to follow to get there. This business of depending on faith just does not work. But God doesn't seem to listen to me.
ERayR Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Exactly, it's all depending on an old writing that's passed through multiply translations. I've argued before that what we need is an up to date book from God for all people with our history, where we came from, where we're going the rules to follow to get there. This business of depending on faith just does not work. But God doesn't seem to listen to me. You don't understand the Doctrine and Covenants is an up to date book for our day. 1
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 You are quoting from the D&C but the fact that God commanded it is a little different story in the Bible. Genesis chap 15. I don't see a commandment for Abraham to have an affair with Hagar or any other female. To me the problem with depending on Joseph Smith's writing in the D&C is that the whole case depends on one man. And the book of Genesis has similar challenges requiring faith - an oral tradition passed down for centuries and recorded later.Now, I believe the Book of Genesis (to a point), and I believe that God gave more history in D&C 132. The fact a command to Abraham isn't recorded in the Bible means nothing to the argument for or against polygamy. Abraham was the head of a dispensation and was a polygamist. So was Moses. So was Joseph Smith. There was no sin in this.In my belief, so was Adam, Noah, Enoch, Christ, and basically every prophet and apostle. The scriptures name some as polygamists but don't specify on most.
Teancum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 And you see and make the arguments that bolster your POV.Of course. We all do to one extent or another. I argued differently when I believed Mormon polygamy was God given.But in regards to the specific points made in the past few posts on this thread I am reading into the text something which is just not there.
Teancum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 And the whole case in the bible also rests on one man, the one who wrote the account we have. The problem is it was so far back we have no idea whose condensed version we are getting.One man wrote the Bible?
Teancum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 And the book of Genesis has similar challenges requiring faith - an oral tradition passed down for centuries and recorded later.Now, I believe the Book of Genesis (to a point), and I believe that God gave more history in D&C 132. The fact a command to Abraham isn't recorded in the Bible means nothing to the argument for or against polygamy. Abraham was the head of a dispensation and was a polygamist. So was Moses. So was Joseph Smith. There was no sin in this.In my belief, so was Adam, Noah, Enoch, Christ, and basically every prophet and apostle. The scriptures name some as polygamists but don't specify on most.Find me some evidence that God commanded them to do it for exaltation outside a modern day Mormon source and your argument may have some legs.
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