ERayR Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 One man wrote the Bible? Come now. Any given part was the work of some individual.
JLHPROF Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Find me some evidence that God commanded them to do it for exaltation outside a modern day Mormon source and your argument may have some legs. Completely unnecessary. Separating the gospel into sections/segments/sources creates false separation. "Modern day Mormon" is the same as "New Testament" which is the same as "Book of Mormon" which is the same as "Old Testament". The gospel is eternal. If it exists in one it exists in the gospel. D&C 132 says God commanded Abraham. That's source enough. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Completely unnecessary. Separating the gospel into sections/segments/sources creates false separation. "Modern day Mormon" is the same as "New Testament" which is the same as "Book of Mormon" which is the same as "Old Testament". The gospel is eternal. If it exists in one it exists in the gospel. D&C 132 says God commanded Abraham. That's source enough.Yes, and reading the same Bible, Jews have believed for thousands of years that polygyny was legal in the sight of God.
Sanpitch Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 And the book of Genesis has similar challenges requiring faith - an oral tradition passed down for centuries and recorded later.Now, I believe the Book of Genesis (to a point), and I believe that God gave more history in D&C 132. The fact a command to Abraham isn't recorded in the Bible means nothing to the argument for or against polygamy. Abraham was the head of a dispensation and was a polygamist. So was Moses. So was Joseph Smith. There was no sin in this.In my belief, so was Adam, Noah, Enoch, Christ, and basically every prophet and apostle. The scriptures name some as polygamists but don't specify on most. Some how your statement does not parallel with what the church "Mormonism 101" says about polygamy. "The general standard of marriage in the Church has always been monogamy, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (see Jacob 2:27)." Do Latter-day Saints practice polygamy?No. There are more than 14 million members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and not one of them is a polygamist. The practice of polygamy is strictly prohibited in the Church. The general standard of marriage in the Church has always been monogamy, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (see Jacob 2:27). For periods in the Bible polygamy was practiced by the patriarchs Abraham and Jacob, as well as kings David and Solomon. It was again practiced by a minority of Latter-day Saints in the early years of the Church. Polygamy was officially discontinued in 1890 — 122 years ago. Those who practice polygamy today have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church.
Sanpitch Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 That's because Joseph was the only head of dispensation born into a time when the culture absolutely forbade the practice and incorrectly considered it immoral. He had to overcome all his false traditions to obey God. None of the other time periods when the gospel was on the earth were limited by Victorian era protestant limitations. Not that complicated. If it was completely forbidden in the cultures where Moses or Abraham were born they would have had to be commanded too.This the quote I was more interested in, I should have quoted this statement instead of above: The general standard of marriage in the Church has always been monogamy, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (see Jacob 2:27).
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Does polygamy hurt love or increase love?
JLHPROF Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Does polygamy hurt love or increase love? Increase, when lived correctly, without a doubt. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Increase, when lived correctly, without a doubt. It's hard to see it lived correctly. My dad cheated on my mom and loved the other woman too, so that's always caused doubt in my mind how it could work that someone could love more than one person without causing heartache. I don't know how Emma Smith handled it, because my parents couldn't handle it. So maybe I just have had bad experiences with there being another woman.
JLHPROF Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) This the quote I was more interested in, I should have quoted this statement instead of above: The general standard of marriage in the Church has always been monogamy, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (see Jacob 2:27). That verse has been used as an excuse against polygamy incorrectly for ages. Jacob 2 is a revocation of permission, just like the 1890 manifesto, not a proclamation of a standard. The "standard" is a nice way of saying "the norm". As in the regular, the usual, the average.Tithing has also been the "standard". Consecration is still the ideal. My point is that the standard is just that, the average, not the above average. The higher the law, the greater the blessing. As the D&C tells us, if God does revoke a law (like he revoked polygamy) he takes the blessing with it. And as the D&C also says, those the higher the law lived, the far more, exceeding, eternal weight of glory received. Edited November 29, 2015 by JLHPROF 1
Randall57 Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Does polygamy hurt love or increase love?I don't know about others here, but after over 35 years of marriage, I don't understand or see how one can have a special bond with more than one wife. My wife and I have been through battle, through good times and hard times. Through the death of our grandparents, and parents, through having absolutely no money and not knowing how to pay the bills or put food on the table, too being alright.
ERayR Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 I don't know about others here, but after over 35 years of marriage, I don't understand or see how one can have a special bond with more than one wife. My wife and I have been through battle, through good times and hard times. Through the death of our grandparents, and parents, through having absolutely no money and not knowing how to pay the bills or put food on the table, too being alright. You would understand if that dear wife you have died and after a couple of years of mourning you were able to meet another wonderful woman who made you feel alive again, One who would share her talents, wisdom, humor and love. You would understand how you could still love your wife as much or more as you always did and also love that other wonderful woman also. 3
JLHPROF Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I don't know about others here, but after over 35 years of marriage, I don't understand or see how one can have a special bond with more than one wife. My wife and I have been through battle, through good times and hard times. Through the death of our grandparents, and parents, through having absolutely no money and not knowing how to pay the bills or put food on the table, too being alright. You have every right to feel that way, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss your life experience.Although you can go through those same experiences you describe with more than one person. Nothing prevents it. But this "only one" argument never made any sense to me - But this thread seems to be VERY derailed...what does polygamy have to do with becoming Gods to a new creation? Oh....wait a second.... Edited November 29, 2015 by JLHPROF 2
Randall57 Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 You have every right to feel that way, and I certainly wouldn't dismiss your life experience.Although you can go through those same experiences you describe with more than one person. Nothing prevents it. But this "only one" argument never made any sense to me - But this thread seems to be VERY derailed...what does polygamy have to do with becoming Gods to a new creation? Oh....wait a second....The relationship and bond between a man and a woman in a traditional marriage does not make sense to you? I am not sure what your point is?
JLHPROF Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) The relationship and bond between a man and a woman in a traditional marriage does not make sense to you? I am not sure what your point is? Of course THAT makes sense. But you said: "I don't understand or see how one can have a special bond with more than one wife".I fail to see why the events that you state form that bond cannot happen with more than one spouse. You could just as easily go "through battle, through good times and hard times. Through the death of our grandparents, and parents, through having absolutely no money and not knowing how to pay the bills or put food on the table, too being alright" with two wives. And the same kind of bond would be created PLUS the wives could create a bond, PLUS the children of those two wives could bond, PLUS the children could bond with their other "mother" PLUS....it goes on. More bonds, more love. Just sayin' (in theory). Edited November 29, 2015 by JLHPROF 2
Randall57 Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Of course THAT makes sense. But you said: "I don't understand or see how one can have a special bond with more than one wife".I fail to see why the events that you state form that bond cannot happen with more than one spouse. You could just as easily go "through battle, through good times and hard times. Through the death of our grandparents, and parents, through having absolutely no money and not knowing how to pay the bills or put food on the table, too being alright" with two wives. And the same kind of bond would be created PLUS the wives could create a bond, PLUS the children of those two wives could bond, PLUS the children could bond with their other "mother" PLUS....it goes on. More bonds, more love. Just sayin' (in theory).You must have a sad relationship. or you have never been married.
JLHPROF Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) You must have a sad relationship. or you have never been married. Nice ad hominem. Try again. I could just as easily say you must have a sad relationship. or you have never been a polygamist. (Neither have I, but I have a great respect for the early prophets and apostles and their wives who were.) My wife and I have a wonderful relationship. We study the gospel together, bounce ideas off each other, share conclusions, inspirations, and testimonies.And she has a testimony that polygamy came from God, although we are both not hoping it returns anytime soon. Edited November 29, 2015 by JLHPROF 2
ERayR Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 You must have a sad relationship. or you have never been married. What I see as sad is that you can't see the limitless potential of love. 3
Calm Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) So even though is may not be required if someone in their heart has a problem with polygamy they won't inherit the celestial kingdom?Joseph Smith taught that even after we die and receive a glory it will be a long time before we are perfect on our own. CFR please. If the quote you are thinking of is the one in my signature, it speaks of a long time learning the principles of the gospel prior to judgment, receiving a glory imo. I see it as impurity is removed---we are sanctified---prior to the final judgment and moving to a glory and after receiving of that gift, then learning how to use it properly, thus an eternity of progression. So while we are perfected at the time of judgment in the sense of becoming sinless, it is not a perfection that is stagnant or unchanging. Edited November 29, 2015 by Calm 2
Calm Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) It happens to be that Joseph Smith is the only one in recorded history that we know of that was commanded and forced to marry more that one woman. Levirate marriage was also a command to marry where there was no exemption for already married individuals. We have at least one individual who was killed because he refused to participate (Onan). Edited November 29, 2015 by Calm 3
Calm Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) Does polygamy hurt love or increase love?According to several of my ancestors it gave them the opportunity to have an increase both in quantity and quality of love in a way that nothing else could provide. I assume that other ancestors weren't too happy iin it given some gossip I heard when I was young, but cannot document. It would seem that it, like many other of God's commands, can add much to life or take away from it depending on commitment, attitude, willingness to sacrifice one's will to God's will and other things. Edited November 29, 2015 by Calm 3
Randall57 Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Nice ad hominem. Try again. I could just as easily say you must have a sad relationship. or you have never been a polygamist. (Neither have I, but I have a great respect for the early prophets and apostles and their wives who were.) My wife and I have a wonderful relationship. We study the gospel together, bounce ideas off each other, share conclusions, inspirations, and testimonies.And she has a testimony that polygamy came from God, although we are both not hoping it returns anytime soon.It is not a ad hom, it is a honest feeling. While you say you have a great respect for the prophets and their wives, I wonder how many of the wives names you can mention? We as a body have forgotten them, and maybe even never knew them. How a working man give quality time to multiple wives is beyond me. Why don't you want polygamy soon? Do you really believe that your current wife will be okay with going to another room while you make love to another wife? 1
Randall57 Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 What I see as sad is that you can't see the limitless potential of love.Maybe so, but I now it would devastate my wife, and i would bet that would be the norm by a long shot.
Tacenda Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Polygamy really didn't increase the numbers IMO, maybe if one believes in righteous seed, that maybe is a plausible reason for polygamy. I don't have a problem with marrying a second wife after being widowed in this life and having both spouses in heaven. That's not a problem, it's the taking of wives while they're alive that I have the problem, unless it's commanded like in the Bible with taking care of the widowed woman. But nowhere is it commanded in the Bible, for a woman or girl to wed someone already married who is perfectly fine to marry someone single. Not that I'm aware.
Teancum Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) CFR please. If the quote you are thinking of is the one in my signature, it speaks of a long time learning the principles of the gospel prior to judgment, receiving a glory imo.I see it as impurity is removed---we are sanctified---prior to the final judgment and moving to a glory and after receiving of that gift, then learning how to use it properly, thus an eternity of progression. So while we are perfected at the time of judgment in the sense of becoming sinless, it is not a perfection that is stagnant or unchanging.Yes that is the one. And I disagree that we are perfected at judgement. We are perfected when we are justified. And that happens when one excercises faith, repents, is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost...which may or may not happen at baptism. Really it is being born of God as Alma states, or the mighty change. Sanctification happens after justification and takes a long time. I thnk the quote by JS illustrates this well. But justification perfects us as long as we remain in the covenant with Jesus Christ. There are not umpteen dozen things that HAVE to be completed before we die in order to inherit the celestial kingdom. Otherwise it is likely nobody would make it there. Edited November 29, 2015 by Teancum
ERayR Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Maybe so, but I now it would devastate my wife, and i would bet that would be the norm by a long shot. Don't bet more than you can afford to lose.
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