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poptart

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I am a great consumer of water, milk, juice, some pop and herbal tea (properly called infusions, not tea IIRC)….

 

But I suspect you mean of alcoholic beverages.

 

We covenanted to avoid those as well as coffee and tea of the black/green tea variety (though people varied about taking green tea for medicinal supplements).

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So, is it true mormons don't drink at all? 

 

Hello Poptart and welcome to the forum.  The Church teaches dietary principles that exclude alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and encourages us to eat vegetables, grains, and to eat meat sparingly.  Obedience is a reflection of an individual's willingness and commitment.  Does that make sense to you? 

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I am a great consumer of water, milk, juice, some pop and herbal tea (properly called infusions, not tea IIRC)….

 

But I suspect you mean of alcoholic beverages.

 

We covenanted to avoid those as well as coffee and tea of the black/green tea variety (though people varied about taking green tea for medicinal supplements).

MMM, infusions are yummy.  Yeah I ment alcohol.  Geez no tea and coffee?  You guys are harsh.

 

ohh, pretty website, lots of colors.  Could do with a splash of fuscia and purple though.

 

Hello Poptart and welcome to the forum.  The Church teaches dietary principles that exclude alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and encourages us to eat vegetables, grains, and to eat meat sparingly.  Obedience is a reflection of an individual's willingness and commitment.  Does that make sense to you? 

Hi Storm.  Hmm, the vegtables part is good, I don't eat much meat anyway.  Meh, I never understood the point of forcing dietery restrictions on someone for religious purposes, but thats just me.  I figure people in general make foolish choices so why bother, let them learn the hard way. 

 

Still, Jesus did drink wine and that was his first miracle, and there are millions of Europeans who would throw a fit if you told them they could not drink wine or beer anymore not to mention millions of alcoholic americans.  Still, thats a great way to save money, alcohol is expensive. 

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I think most Mormons use alcohol-based extracts in cooking; but other than that, no. Having seen alcohol's effects on people first-hand, I can't say that I miss it.

I make my own mead and wine but thats about it.  Think what scares me most is how irresponsible Americans are in general with alcohol.  The binge drinking problem is terrible here and people treat the problem like the invisible elephant in the room.  Even the top person for MADD was arrested for a DUI a while ago.  Wish they would enact laws like they have in Germany, you drive drunk more than once?  You lose your licence.  Think after that you get a real stiff jail sentence.  I know personal responsibility is not popular in the USA, but it sure would save a lot of lives. 

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While you will find lds church members who will speculate about lots of reasons for these particular prohibitions, the Lord Himself has never said why these things more than describing the blessing attached to its obedience:

 18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

 19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

 20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

 21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

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While you will find lds church members who will speculate about lots of reasons for these particular prohibitions, the Lord Himself has never said why these things more than describing the blessing attached to its obedience:

 18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

 19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

 20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

 21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

So, it really is purely religious reason then?  Huh.  You know, that always facinated me about any scions of American Christianity, people here just accept things on blind faith and comply.  I really don't drink that much and run a lot so i'm in pretty good shape, but, I have the self control most lack.  Well, nowadays anyway.  Like most people in my early 20's I had my moments but as I matured a bit I got it under control.  Anyway, as I was saying I was always facinated and never did understand blind compliance like that, I figure if you can't manage your own life properly thats your own fault.   

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MMM, infusions are yummy.  Yeah I ment alcohol.  Geez no tea and coffee?  You guys are harsh.

 

ohh, pretty website, lots of colors.  Could do with a splash of fuscia and purple though.

 

Hi Storm.  Hmm, the vegtables part is good, I don't eat much meat anyway.  Meh, I never understood the point of forcing dietery restrictions on someone for religious purposes, but thats just me.  I figure people in general make foolish choices so why bother, let them learn the hard way. 

 

Still, Jesus did drink wine and that was his first miracle, and there are millions of Europeans who would throw a fit if you told them they could not drink wine or beer anymore not to mention millions of alcoholic americans.  Still, thats a great way to save money, alcohol is expensive.

No one is "forced" to do anything. Everyone has free agency. We choose to make covenants, we choose to follow the teachings.

Your take on it puzzles me. How can anyone force me to forego alcohol or other things? How could a church "force" millions of people to engage in dietary restrictions? It's not even possible.

By the way, there are millions of European Latter-day Saints who forego alcohol. Did you catch that? Choose. No force involved.

Alcoholics exist in every country, not just America. There are millions of alcoholics everywhere who successfully choose to abstain for alcohol. Both inside and outside the church.

You seem to think abstaining from alcohol is a bad thing.

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So, it really is purely religious reason then?  Huh.  You know, that always facinated me about any scions of American Christianity, people here just accept things on blind faith and comply.  I really don't drink that much and run a lot so i'm in pretty good shape, but, I have the self control most lack.  Well, nowadays anyway.  Like most people in my early 20's I had my moments but as I matured a bit I got it under control.  Anyway, as I was saying I was always facinated and never did understand blind compliance like that, I figure if you can't manage your own life properly thats your own fault.

I think your bias is showing.

The tenets of this church are not country-specific.

Can you please give us examples of churches/religions that have rules or teachings that only apply to America? With references, of course.

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I think your bias is showing.

The tenets of this church are not country-specific.

Can you please give us examples of churches/religions that have rules or teachings that only apply to America? With references, of course.

 

Not to nit pick, but LDS Scripture is the only one that I know of that specifically mentions the  US Constitution.

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So, is it true mormons don't drink at all?

Yes, for those seeking to keep themselves Spiritually clean for the Temple...this is twofold as the body is also the "Temple of God". The Spirit of God will not and cannot dwell in unholy Temples.
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I am a great consumer of water, milk, juice, some pop and herbal tea (properly called infusions, not tea IIRC)….

 

But I suspect you mean of alcoholic beverages.

 

We covenanted to avoid those as well as coffee and tea of the black/green tea variety (though people varied about taking green tea for medicinal supplements).

For my sins in a former life [apparently], I am a cursed Southerner, as the greatest beverage of all time, (Lemonade) gives me 4 alarm heartburn...but minus the soda, I am the same as you listed water, juice (even that can give me heartburn) etc.
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How is it blind obedience to trust the Lord --- that He knows us, that He loves us, that His plan and purpose for us here will bring happiness and lead us back to return to Him; and that we are best served by following His directions?

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Hello Poptart...

Welcome to the board... I think you'll like it here...

 

I totally agree with Raingirl's post that you are misunderstanding our "Word of Wisdom" dietary practices... and your assertion that we LDS are following the WoW blindly because this is a "religious" thing...

First, as she pointed out... the Church does not force any of it's principles on anyone, and, we have our agency to follow or not to follow...but, if we choose not to, there are consequences, i.e., not qualifying for a temple recommend... if smoking or partaking of alcohol are more important to some members than being able to attend the temple, that is their choice... nor would they appropriately be able to partake of the sacrament...

Second, a number of years ago, UCLA did a lengthy study on LDS who kept the WoW, and non-LDS who did not... the results were that the LDS lived on average about 10 years longer than those not following the WoW. 

It's not just a "religious" thing... it is meant to benefit the health of the members...

 

GG

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Choosing to follow the commandments is not blind obedience; it is a conscious choice, and we can see the results of that choice in the lives of those who make it.

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No one is "forced" to do anything. Everyone has free agency. We choose to make covenants, we choose to follow the teachings.

Your take on it puzzles me. How can anyone force me to forego alcohol or other things? How could a church "force" millions of people to engage in dietary restrictions? It's not even possible.

By the way, there are millions of European Latter-day Saints who forego alcohol. Did you catch that? Choose. No force involved.

Alcoholics exist in every country, not just America. There are millions of alcoholics everywhere who successfully choose to abstain for alcohol. Both inside and outside the church.

You seem to think abstaining from alcohol is a bad thing.

Hmm, nope abstaining is neither good nor bad, what I would consider bad is when you let it get out of hand.  Just how popular is the LDS faith in Europe anyway?  I would think it would not be that popular.  From what i've seen the highest growth rates have been in Latin America and Asia.

 

Yes, for those seeking to keep themselves Spiritually clean for the Temple...this is twofold as the body is also the "Temple of God". The Spirit of God will not and cannot dwell in unholy Temples.

hmm, ok.  Thats a new concept.  I would think God would be more concerned with the moral character of the indivudal. 

 

How is it blind obedience to trust the Lord --- that He knows us, that He loves us, that His plan and purpose for us here will bring happiness and lead us back to return to Him; and that we are best served by following His directions?

For me its blind obedience.  I look at say the Jesuit scholastic tradition that investigates things in depth and proves with solid reasoning that something is true.  Sure, there is plenty of prayer and contemplation, but there is an insane amount of work done on the individual.  I'm one of those people that always asks why and while I did not grow up religious when it comes to things Christian I take the Catholic approach that if you want to learn something it takes more than just blind faith, you have to work for it.  My understanding is it was through this quest for understanding of the divine that the University system was set up so that those seeking further knowledge could do so and know beyond a doubt what the truth is.  I dunno, I guess the blind faith approach to me just seems really lazy.

 

I think your bias is showing.

The tenets of this church are not country-specific.

Can you please give us examples of churches/religions that have rules or teachings that only apply to America? With references, of course.

You caught me at a bind.  Honestly finding sources like that would be tricky for me as its not really my thing, but it seems whenever I have heard from an evangelical things such as theres a difference between having faith and being knowledgable, well, they really don't wright a lot down.  Think the best example I can think of would be Joel Olsteen who writes books like living your best life now.  That stuff makes no sense and gives people an over inflated sense of entitlment and treat the idea of God as some magic wish granting jeanie who will do whatever you want. 

I compare that to say, oh, Lutheran doctorine that does empasize faith, but also emphasizes personal responsibility, learning, and integrity.  I do have a friend who works for Concordia so he's my go to guy for info.

 

Hello Poptart...

Welcome to the board... I think you'll like it here...

 

I totally agree with Raingirl's post that you are misunderstanding our "Word of Wisdom" dietary practices... and your assertion that we LDS are following the WoW blindly because this is a "religious" thing...

First, as she pointed out... the Church does not force any of it's principles on anyone, and, we have our agency to follow or not to follow...but, if we choose not to, there are consequences, i.e., not qualifying for a temple recommend... if smoking or partaking of alcohol are more important to some members than being able to attend the temple, that is their choice... nor would they appropriately be able to partake of the sacrament...

Second, a number of years ago, UCLA did a lengthy study on LDS who kept the WoW, and non-LDS who did not... the results were that the LDS lived on average about 10 years longer than those not following the WoW. 

It's not just a "religious" thing... it is meant to benefit the health of the members...

 

GG

aaaaand that was the answer I was looking for.  Hmm, wonder if that UCLA study was what they were quoting on the 60 minutes special they had on the LDS church.  I would credit your longer lifespan to a few other things, besides a support network, Americans in general take terrible care of their health.  As it is younger people's lifespan is going down now due to obiesity and drug use.  Also, I really know nothing about the LDS, save they don't drink and outside of New England Utah has the highest percentage of Anglos (Actual English Anglos)  in the United States. 

 

Choosing to follow the commandments is not blind obedience; it is a conscious choice, and we can see the results of that choice in the lives of those who make it.

Garden Girl was kind enough to give me a good answer.  Like I said I'm one of those people who asks why and wants to see answers explained with statistics and numbers.  Appeal to emotion always makes me suspicious as its how some people try to get around the common sense aspect of people. 

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The best way to understand the Word of Wisdom is to compare it to Jewish Kosher law. Are there some health benefits? Sure. But you also can get health benefits from green tea, a small amount of caffeine, as well as alcohol. The Word of Wisdom, like Kosher law, is primarily treated nowadays as a marker of peculiarity, and commandment keeping among Latter-day Saints.

 

The entirety of the Word of Wisdom (which is arguably not adhered to strictly) is primarily a high-vegetable, moderate grain, and low-meat diet.

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The entirety of the Word of Wisdom (which is arguably not adhered to strictly) is primarily a high-vegetable, moderate grain, and low-meat diet.

 

Which has proven in the long run to be the healthiest way to eat, and the best at maintaining an acceptable weight vs obesity. 

 

GG

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The best way to understand the Word of Wisdom is to compare it to Jewish Kosher law. Are there some health benefits? Sure. But you also can get health benefits from green tea, a small amount of caffeine, as well as alcohol. The Word of Wisdom, like Kosher law, is primarily treated nowadays as a marker of peculiarity, and commandment keeping among Latter-day Saints.

 

The entirety of the Word of Wisdom (which is arguably not adhered to strictly) is primarily a high-vegetable, moderate grain, and low-meat diet.

Huh, pretty much sounds like the diet I have now. 

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Which has proven in the long run to be the healthiest way to eat, and the best at maintaining an acceptable weight vs obesity. 

 

GG

Also keeps the mind sharp.  Blows my mind how people say its so expensive to eat healthy, no its not.  Please keep answers like this coming, this is stuff that makes sense.  I actually do keep a pretty healthy diet and lifestyle since I'm pretty active and I like feeling at my best. 

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Huh, pretty much sounds like the diet I have now. 

 

And I can bet you drink plenty of water, and exercise regularly... good for you... that's my goal too.  Being widowed and alone (except for a pushy cat named Bob), I sometimes use food for comfort in the evenings... now I'm going to try and take off some of the extra pounds I've put on over the last few years, so it's back to WoW in earnest... 

 

from the beautiful central Oregon coast... GG

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And I can bet you drink plenty of water, and exercise regularly... good for you... that's my goal too.  Being widowed and alone (except for a pushy cat named Bob), I sometimes use food for comfort in the evenings... now I'm going to try and take off some of the extra pounds I've put on over the last few years, so it's back to WoW in earnest... 

 

from the beautiful central Oregon coast... GG

I do.  I run marathons so I can be outright paranoid about my diet.  I have a weakness for sweets but that's about it.  I figure that if I take care of myself now hopefully I can stay active well into my golden years and be like those 60-70 year olds who run marathons.  That, and considering the way healthcare is going in the USA there will not be much if any money left in medicare so those who make bad health choices while young will really be in a difficult position when they're older. 

Yeah those evening snacks are brutal, I try not to eat anything three hours before bedtime and keep dinners healthy and light. 

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