Shopping List Prayers

[Bernard Gui]

I suppose we all have our shopping list to include in our prayers...

"Please bless the food that no harm will come to us..."

"Please bless Uncle Mike that he will stop smoking."
"Please bless our dog that the mange will go away."

"Please help me find the $100 bill I lost."

"Please bless the missionaries in the field that they may find the pure in heart."

"Please bless the bishopric that they may lead and guide us."

 

More serious prayers might be for a loved one who is ill or is suffering

or for the success of some sort of important endeavor, or another

request that isn't so trivial as the ones above.

 

I was wondering, though, when we finally arrive at the point where we have

completely surrendered our will to the Father, should our prayers no longer include

shopping lists of requests, frivolous or earnest, and become simple prayers of gratitude?

 

When we have shopping list prayers, are we still on the side of preferring

our will to the Father's"

Edited May 26, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[JAHS]

I agree to some extent, but Jesus taught that when we pray we can ask for things:

"Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:"

 

And as Jesus himself prayed he begged the father:

"let this cup pass from me:"

 

But at the same time giving up his will to the Father:

"nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

 

I think God will always want us to ask Him for what we need because it demonstrates our humility and dependence on Him and our faith that He will hear and answer us ("ask and ye shall receive"). I think it's OK to keep asking for things so long as we acknowledge the importance of God's will over our own like Jesus did when He prayed.

[JLHPROF]

Romans 8:26-27. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

[rchorse]

Our Bible Dictionary explains: “Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them” (Bible Dictionary, “Prayer”).

 

-bold added.

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

 

I agree to some extent, but Jesus taught that when we pray we can ask for things:

"Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:"

 

And as Jesus himself prayed he begged the father:

"let this cup pass from me:"

 

But at the same time giving up his will to the Father:

"nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

 

I think God will always want us to ask Him for what we need because it demonstrates our humility and dependence on Him and our faith that He will hear and answer us ("ask and ye shall receive"). I think it's OK to keep asking for things so long as we acknowledge the importance of God's will over our own like Jesus did when He prayed.

 

But, if one reaches the point where personal will had been subsumed into the will of the Father, what then? Are there continuing needs to demonstrate humility and dependence once

that has been established?

[Bernard Gui]

Romans 8:26-27. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

Could you explain how this relates to the OP?

[Bernard Gui]

Our Bible Dictionary explains: “Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them” (Bible Dictionary, “Prayer”).

 

-bold added.

But the question is, once we have given our will to the Father, we have no desire to change his will but simply accept it, as a child submits to its father.

[Storm Rider]

The danger to the assumption that when we submit to the Father our will that there is nothing to ask for is that some may be prompted to stop praying.  Prayer should not be considered the opportunity to ask solely for blessings and we need to make efforts when we teach our children and others to pray that prayer is to commune with God.  Too often we treat God much as a good luck charm or a statue of the fat Buddha that you rub his tummy for good luck.  This is an immature understanding of God and can lead to dissatisfaction because God is not there solely to shower blessings upon our head.  

 

There is an infinite depth to the concept that is taught by Moses; "this is my work and my glory - to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."  

 

Prayer must become more of communing with God than simply asking for blessings.  It is filled with praise, wonder, gratitude, humility, worship, joy, sorrow, release, listening, and peace.  It is hard to put this into words.  

 

To surrender our will does not equate to surrender our desires; our desires can be righteous and in full union with the will of the Father.  We seek for understanding, greater compassion, more mercy, patience, strength.  To pray for others can take up hours as we plead for their welfare both temporal and eternal.  

 

I agree that our prayers move from being pleas for satisfaction and become more focused on enhancing our transition to becoming more Christ-like. 

[halconero]

But the question is, once we have given our will to the Father, we have no desire to change his will but simply accept it, as a child submits to its father.

 

Complete submission =/= without needs or personal desires.

[The Nehor]

I was wondering, though, when we finally arrive at the point where we have

completely surrendered our will to the Father, should our prayers no longer include

shopping lists of requests, frivolous or earnest, and become simple prayers of gratitude?

 

Not in this life. Jesus was perfect and prayed asking for his daily bread.

[strappinglad]

How does the Lord answer the prayer to " GIVE us this day our daily bread .." ? He did it literally with the Israelites and the manna. Has all the giving been done because He made the earth and everything therein ? Do we want Him to just give us the opportunity to make the bread? Is this what Nibley meant when he said " work we must , but the lunch is free.." ?

Sorry for the 20 questions approach but I started to think about prayer and they just keep tumbling out.

[JLHPROF]

Could you explain how this relates to the OP?

Romans 8 relates to the original topic. The topic asks whether our prayers should cease being requests and become just gratitude as we surrender our will. Romans reminds us that we don't know what to pray a lot of the time but that our spirits pray more correctly than we do. So as long as we are praying sincerely our spirit make up the difference.

[Bernard Gui]

Not in this life. Jesus was perfect and prayed asking for his daily bread.

Does that mean daily bread will be withheld if not requested?

Is daily bread an allusion to manna?

Edited May 27, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

How does the Lord answer the prayer to " GIVE us this day our daily bread .." ? He did it literally with the Israelites and the manna. Has all the giving been done because He made the earth and everything therein ? Do we want Him to just give us the opportunity to make the bread? Is this what Nibley meant when he said " work we must , but the lunch is free.." ?

Sorry for the 20 questions approach but I started to think about prayer and they just keep tumbling out.

Well, you beat me to the Nibley/manna punch. These are the very questions I have had....not that we should not pray,

because that is our lifeline with God, but that if we submit our will to the Father, do we need to ask, since we accept

his will in all things?

[The Nehor]

Does that mean daily bread will be withheld if not requested?

Yes, I did not pray for my daily bread and my bread machine broke.

Now I am stuck eating rice and chicken for lunch.

Edited May 27, 2014 by The Nehor

[Bernard Gui]

Romans 8 relates to the original topic. The topic asks whether our prayers should cease being requests and become just gratitude as we surrender our will. Romans reminds us that we don't know what to pray a lot of the time but that our spirits pray more correctly than we do. So as long as we are praying sincerely our spirit make up the difference.

I'm not being thick on purpose, but I don't follow you.

[Bernard Gui]

Yes, I did not pray for my daily bread and my bread machine broke.

Now I am stuck eating rice and chicken for lunch.

But if that was God's will, what does it matter?

[The Nehor]

But if that was God's will, what does it matter?

I will not worship a God who hates my wonderful Italian bread and the delicious sandwiches I make with it.

[bluebell]

But if that was God's will, what does it matter?

 

Because prayer is one of the ways that we learn to match our will to the Lord's.  

 

We 'counsel with the Lord in all our doings,' not to change His will, but to learn to see our own desires and thoughts on the matter and yet still be able to accept that His ways are superior.  

[JAHS]

But, if one reaches the point where personal will had been subsumed into the will of the Father, what then? Are there continuing needs to demonstrate humility and dependence once

that has been established?

You are talking about a person who would have been translated by now, like Enoch. But anyone who is still here in mortality has not yet reached that point. How can anyone know when they have sufficient humility? Only God can be the judge of that. 

[The Nehor]

Because prayer is one of the ways that we learn to match our will to the Lord's.  

 

We 'counsel with the Lord in all our doings,' not to change His will, but to learn to see our own desires and thoughts on the matter and yet still be able to accept that His ways are superior.  

It is more though. It is requesting blessings God is willing to grant but that we much ask for.

[Calm]

As a parent there are things I want to give my child and things my child wants from me. Sometimes they overlap. I do not see the overlapping as removing the need to ask and in fact at times I will withhold it until the child asks for what I mean to give to him so that he has greater recognition of its value and place in his life.

Asking God to give me what he knows I already need is part of the ritual of encounter, it places me as supplicant. It creates a sense of gratitude rather than expectation.

In this life, how can we be so absolutely certain that our will is in alignment with God? Are you suggesting that we should stop asking God for anything specifically but instead simply say "you choose, your Will is my will, I want nothing but what you would give and I want all that you would give"?

If so, I see that as rather passive. Would it be appropriate to go through life when it came to decision making to say "you make the decisions God, your Will, not mine" and then not act unless one was given inspiration or a sign to act?

I don't think God defines spiritual growth in such a way that we would end up ceasing to make decisions for ourselves including what blessings we desire from God. I think this lifetime is to aid us in learning what is most important to us and that includes what we are willing to spend hours, days even a lifetime pleading with the Lord for...whether that is for something selfish or the ability to give ourselves fully to God.

God encouraged the Brother of Jared to ask him for something instead of completely putting himself into the Lord's hands to do whatever God instructed. I see our every day prayers to be along the same...God wants us to seek, to ponder, to study things out in our mind and then come to him, not to be silent from the beginning save for giving our thanks, but to present to him our thoughts and desires. I cannot think of a more effective way of bringing our will to his than to ask sincerely in prayer.

Edited May 27, 2014 by calmoriah

[Bernard Gui]

Because prayer is one of the ways that we learn to match our will to the Lord's.  

 

We 'counsel with the Lord in all our doings,' not to change His will, but to learn to see our own desires and thoughts on the matter and yet still be able to accept that His ways are superior.  

Of course. My question is, once we have decided to submit totally to God.........?

[The Nehor]

Of course. My question is, once we have decided to submit totally to God.........?

Then we become God and others submit their will to ours.

[Bernard Gui]

Here is the genesis of my question:

 

In working with family support and addiction programs, one principal is critical....to admit that we are powerless over our addictions

and over the actions of our loved ones in addiction. We learn to turn that over to God....to submit completely to his will and put the

matter in his more capable hands. Once we decide not to try to control it ourselves and rely on the grace of God, we find deliverance

and peace. So, I wonder, if we totally submit to God's will, do we lose the need to shop our prayers?

 

Neil Maxwell said, 

 

In conclusion, the submission of one’s will is really the only uniquely personal thing we have to place on God’s altar. The many other things we “give,” brothers and sisters, are actually the things He has already given or loaned to us. However, when you and I finally submit ourselves, by letting our individual wills be swallowed up in God’s will, then we are really giving something to Him! It is the only possession which is truly ours to give!

Consecration thus constitutes the only unconditional surrender which is also a total victory!

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1995/10/swallowed-up-in-the-will-of-the-father?lang=eng