Elder Ballard Speaks To The Young Adults About Three Things

[Paddy]

During Elder Oaks' talk, he focused some of his remarks on a few of the Articles of Faith. I was surprised when he pulled out a piece of paper and read the third Article of Faith from it. I'm thinking "Really, you don't have that memorized?"

But then I thought about what it must be like as an apostle, where you might recite something from memory but mix up a word or two, and then the congregation is thinking that you were correcting the scripture using your authority as they mark the new version in their scriptures.

I don't envy their position. It must be hard to balance the expectations of the faithful, the hate of the critics, and the mediocrity of everyone else. One word sometime means different things to different people.

[Senator]

A few years ago, my wife and I met Louis Zamperini (the guy in the book "Unbroken").  In that book, he tells the story of his trip to the Berlin Olympics 1936, and his experience shaking Hitler's hand after one of his races.  After shaking Louis' hand, I joked to my wife "Now I've shaken the hand of the man who shook Hitler's hand!" (a joke about an old Church video you might remember).

 

So after shaking Elder Oaks' hand, I joked to my wife that I should have told him "Elder Oaks, now you've shaken the hand of the man who shook the hand of the man who shook Hitler's hand".  Which would have to be the oddest thing he'd hear all day. 

HA!

[Paddy]

I have occasion quite frequently to see apostles speak outside of general conference. Frequently, at the close of an address, the speaker will pronounce an apostolic blessing upon the congregation or group to whom he is speaking. It is a solemn moment when that happens, and always very meaningful to the listeners. He will do it by virtue of the authority that he holds.

I would certainly regard that as their speaking as apostles of the Lord.

Thanks Scott. We are a little remove from that intimacy here. It's nice to know.

[Nofear]

I've raised this point before, but I draw a distinction between the content of the proclamation and the act of issuing it.

 

It is true that the proclamation does not really contain new doctrine and, perhaps in that sense, may be considered more of a reaffirmation than a revelation.

 

However, the unusual act itself of drafting the proclamation and publishing it to the world may very well have been prompted by inspiration or revelation from God -- a new revelation, as it were.

 

In fact, it's my fervent belief that it was.

 

I agree as well. I quite consider the Family: A Proclamation to the World doctrinal. While the Church may have not formally canonized it, doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

It did go through several edits and significant consideration. Perhaps it is unfortunate that the General Relief Society, Primary, or Young Women presidencies weren't asked for any input in the editing process ... I suspect they may have had some insights that may have been confirmed and added in some manner. Still, that doesn't make what is there any less true.

[CV75]

I get that and seems okay I just wonder what God expects a homosexual to do in life, LDS or not. Honestly if I had a gay friend I don't think I would refer them to the missionaries, just based on what they would expect in the Church and what other gay friends got out of the Church when they were in. 

I think the Gospel invitation is meant to be extended to all. I think God can only expect people to act on the light they have, regardless of sexual orientation or any other mortal particulars in their makeup. I had a coworker tell me he and his partner were looking for a church where they and their son would feel welcome. He felt he could not attend the Catholic church of his upbringing due to the moral issues. I told him I am Mormon and we are similar the Catholic church in matters of sexual morality, but that he and his were welcome to sit with me and my family at church and see what it was like. He asked whether everyone there would be open and welcoming, I said we have all kinds and some individuals might turn out to be less friendly than others. He decided to go somewhere a little more suitable for him.

[Scott Lloyd]

I like the idea of that anyone can and should visit the Temple grounds. I agree with the idea of combating pornography and I am against it I just don't buy or understand this idea of re-wiring the brain, if you are having regular sex with your spouse does your brain send different chemicals to make that happen? the male body for example reacts the same way if something is real or in fantasy land, why is one more addicting then another? we never ever talk about regular intimacy as being naturally addictive yet porn is this plague sweeping the world and stuff. I wish they would just say why God allows homosexuality, created it or where it comes from. It's easy to say as a straight man like me or Elder Ballard advice that we never have to live with the consequences of. What advice can I give a homosexual that I have to live with also? If marriage was an opportunity for me then all the relationship stuff I can do and enjoy but if you are a gay person in the Church you can't do any of it and frankly I am not one bit surprised so many leave the Church, what hope do they have here?maybe they'll change in the next life? do the scriptures say anything about that? Why would God give someone homosexuality only to change them later? isn't the same spirit that you have when you die the same that you go into the spirit world with? are you supposed to want to change but can't until you die? that seems crazy!, what does he expect them to do?

This may or may not be satisfying to those interested, but this Q and A published back in 2012, featuring Elder Dallin H. Oaks and Elder Lance B. Wickman, offers some answers.

 

Some highlights:

 

PUBLIC AFFAIRS: If somebody has a very powerful heterosexual drive, there is the opportunity for marriage. If a young man thinks he’s gay, what we’re really saying to him is that there is simply no other way to go but to be celibate for the rest of his life if he doesn’t feel any attraction to women?

ELDER OAKS: That is exactly the same thing we say to the many members who don’t have the opportunity to marry. We expect celibacy of any person that is not married.

ELDER WICKMAN: We live in a society which is so saturated with sexuality that it perhaps is more troublesome now, because of that fact, for a person to look beyond their gender orientation to other aspects of who they are. I think I would say to your son or anyone that was so afflicted to strive to expand your horizons beyond simply gender orientation. Find fulfillment in the many other facets of your character and your personality and your nature that extend beyond that. There’s no denial that one’s gender orientation is certainly a core characteristic of any person, but it’s not the only one.

What’s more, merely having inclinations does not disqualify one for any aspect of Church participation or membership, except possibly marriage as has already been talked about. But even that, in the fullness of life as we understand it through the doctrines of the restored gospel, eventually can become possible.

In this life, such things as service in the Church, including missionary service, all of this is available to anyone who is true to covenants and commandments.

PUBLIC AFFAIRS: So you are saying that homosexual feelings are controllable?

ELDER OAKS: Yes, homosexual feelings are controllable. Perhaps there is an inclination or susceptibility to such feelings that is a reality for some and not a reality for others. But out of such susceptibilities come feelings, and feelings are controllable. If we cater to the feelings, they increase the power of the temptation. If we yield to the temptation, we have committed sinful behavior. That pattern is the same for a person that covets someone else’s property and has a strong temptation to steal. It’s the same for a person that develops a taste for alcohol. It’s the same for a person that is born with a ‘short fuse,’ as we would say of a susceptibility to anger. If they let that susceptibility remain uncontrolled, it becomes a feeling of anger, and a feeling of anger can yield to behavior that is sinful and illegal.

We’re not talking about a unique challenge here. We’re talking about a common condition of mortality. We don’t understand exactly the ‘why,’ or the extent to which there are inclinations or susceptibilities and so on. But what we do know is that feelings can be controlled and behavior can be controlled. The line of sin is between the feelings and the behavior. The line of prudence is between the susceptibility and the feelings. We need to lay hold on the feelings and try to control them to keep us from getting into a circumstance that leads to sinful behavior.

ELDER WICKMAN: One of the great sophistries of our age, I think, is that merely because one has an inclination to do something, that therefore acting in accordance with that inclination is inevitable. That’s contrary to our very nature as the Lord has revealed to us. We do have the power to control our behavior. ...

...

ELDER WICKMAN: One question that might be asked by somebody who is struggling with same-gender attraction is, “Is this something I’m stuck with forever? What bearing does this have on eternal life? If I can somehow make it through this life, when I appear on the other side, what will I be like?”

Gratefully, the answer is that same-gender attraction did not exist in the pre-earth life and neither will it exist in the next life. It is a circumstance that for whatever reason or reasons seems to apply right now in mortality, in this nano-second of our eternal existence.

The good news for somebody who is struggling with same-gender attraction is this: 1) It is that ‘I’m not stuck with it forever.’ It’s just now. Admittedly, for each one of us, it’s hard to look beyond the ‘now’ sometimes. But nonetheless, if you see mortality as now, it’s only during this season. 2) If I can keep myself worthy here, if I can be true to gospel commandments, if I can keep covenants that I have made, the blessings of exaltation and eternal life that Heavenly Father holds out to all of His children apply to me. Every blessing — including eternal marriage — is and will be mine in due course.

ELDER OAKS: Let me just add a thought to that. There is no fullness of joy in the next life without a family unit, including a husband, a wife, and posterity. Further, men are that they might have joy. In the eternal perspective, same-gender activity will only bring sorrow and grief and the loss of eternal opportunities.

 

I shudder to think what it might be like to have a strong testimony of the gospel yet beset with SSA. I can only imagine that being spiritually fortified, someone with that challenge who had a strong testimony would be able to endure such an affliction, secure in the knowledge that "weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning" (Psalm 30:5).

Edited May 5, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

A few years ago, my wife and I met Louis Zamperini (the guy in the book "Unbroken").  In that book, he tells the story of his trip to the Berlin Olympics 1936, and his experience shaking Hitler's hand after one of his races.  After shaking Louis' hand, I joked to my wife "Now I've shaken the hand of the man who shook Hitler's hand!" (a joke about an old Church video you might remember).

 

So after shaking Elder Oaks' hand, I joked to my wife that I should have told him "Elder Oaks, now you've shaken the hand of the man who shook the hand of the man who shook Hitler's hand".  Which would have to be the oddest thing he'd hear all day. 

 

Only really cool people get fun moments like that with Hitler.

 

[changed]

I just finished watching it for FHE,  I thought it was interesting that he stared by defending himself, that he was not living in a bubble but was instead a world traveler who had been everywhere from inside the white house to inside poverty stricken houses, that he had seen more, experienced more, and knew more than most people, and that his age had also given him increased wisdom and was not something to look down on.... interesting that he felt he had to defend himself, and point out his credentials.  

Loved his admonition for everyone to find quiet time, to get back to nature, go climb a mountain, find somewhere to see the stars, take time to think and meditate, find a place that is quite - that even Jesus took time alone away from the multitudes to be alone in a quiet setting.

Interesting comparison between pornography and cigarettes, that when the word of wisdom was first instituted people did not understand the dangers of tobacco and alcohol, the full ramifications and consequences of pornography are not yet fully known, but many things are quickly coming to light about it.  

Then finishing up defending traditional families, and throughout the entire talk, emphasizing that we are at war - not a war with bullets and blood, but a war of philosophies and beliefs, and that we needed to defend ourselves & stand up for our values - that he had been spit on and mocked after WW2, he knew what it was like to be persecuted for his beliefs, but that it was a war that needs to be fought, but then saying this does not include shunning anyone, or being unloving.  

wonderful talk! 

Edited May 6, 2014 by changed

[Tacenda]

I get that and seems okay I just wonder what God expects a homosexual to do in life, LDS or not. Honestly if I had a gay friend I don't think I would refer them to the missionaries, just based on what they would expect in the Church and what other gay friends got out of the Church when they were in.

Imagine the growth in the church if they were treated the same as heterosexuals. No astric by their name, hold callings dealing with children & youth, allowed to marry, the list goes on.

[cinepro]

Imagine the growth in the church if they were treated the same as heterosexuals. No astric by their name, hold callings dealing with children & youth, allowed to marry, the list goes on.

 

There might be many good arguments for broadening the Church's attitude in that regard, but "growth" probably isn't one of them.

[rockpond]

I shudder to think what it might be like to have a strong testimony of the gospel yet beset with SSA.

 

This is a good point for all of us to remember.

[rockpond]

Just before the 46 minute mark, Elder Ballard said:  "I also know that some of our youth struggle to understand how to explain the doctrine surrounding the family and marriage and still remain kind, gentle, loving toward those who do not agree."

 

Unfortunately, I suspect that will continue to be the case as long as our doctrine remains what it currently is.

[CV75]

Just before the 46 minute mark, Elder Ballard said:  "I also know that some of our youth struggle to understand how to explain the doctrine surrounding the family and marriage and still remain kind, gentle, loving toward those who do not agree."

 

Unfortunately, I suspect that will continue to be the case as long as our doctrine remains what it currently is.

There will always be some who struggle; fortunately our doctrine will certainly allow the Gift of the Holy Ghost to "explain the doctrine surrounding the family and marriage and still remain kind, gentle, loving toward those who do not agree."

[rodheadlee]

thank you for sharing that! I think I had heard once that your brain can be re-rewired! it bounces back from these types of events. I just wonder what the brain does on regular sex, why do men cheat, multiple times are they addicts like a porn addict?

Yes. I have a friend who is addicted to women .

[Duncan]

Yes. I have a friend who is addicted to women .

 

 

as do I, and so I wonder what is a porn addicts brain look like as opposed to someone who is monogamous with their wife, the male body reacts the same way

[Scott Lloyd]

I just finished watching it for FHE,  I thought it was interesting that he stared by defending himself, that he was not living in a bubble but was instead a world traveler who had been everywhere from inside the white house to inside poverty stricken houses, that he had seen more, experienced more, and knew more than most people, and that his age had also given him increased wisdom and was not something to look down on.... interesting that he felt he had to defend himself, and point out his credentials.  

Yes, this was a remarkable preface indeed.

 

I found it meaningful in the context of what was soon to follow in his speech: a caution against the unwise use of technology; a denouncement of and warning against pornography; and a bold and explicit affirmation of the Church's doctrine relative to marriage.

 

He seemed implicitly to be addressing those who, on the matter of the redefinition of marriage, for example, argue in essence that the Brethren hold to the positions that they do because they are old, out-of-touch ("living in a bubble") sticks-in-the-mud who can't muster the gumption to go to God and get Him to change His mind on the law of chastity so that the Church's position more closely matches shifting societal trends.

 

On the contrary, Elder Ballard presents himself as a "watchman on the tower," an original signatory to the proclamation on the family, and one whose duty is to warn the people to keep the commandments of God.

 

I note also the timeliness and relevance of his remarks on this occasion. He was addressing an audience who are part of the demographic of those who, if polls are any indication, are most apt to use social media and other new technological tools and to embrace shifts in attitudes about marriage.

 

I am grateful for the clarity and candor with which he approached this assignment.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Sky]

As a member of the Church who is attracted to my same gender, I don't know how helpful it is when I hear things like being "beset with SSA."  It feels patronizing, or like I'm "the other." I also have come to question how helpful it is to constantly view SSA as a problem that needs to be abated or corrected.  Once I started considering the possibility that SSA is not an accident, and part of something bigger that God chooses not to take away because He wants me to learn something, that was a big step in me being able to love myself as I am.  I think that Heavenly Father wants us to love ourselves, too.  I am also better able to keep the commandments, I think.  At least this mindset has helped me to have a healthier outlook on my possibilities and limitations as a member of the Church living with the reality of SSA.  

[Porter_Rockwell]

Yes. I have a friend who is addicted to women .

Do you mean 'addicted' in a literal sense or are you speaking figuratively about a womanizing buddy?

[wtrdog]

. 

Edited May 7, 2014 by wtrdog

[wtrdog]

. 

Edited May 7, 2014 by wtrdog

[cinepro]

As a member of the Church who is attracted to my same gender, I don't know how helpful it is when I hear things like being "beset with SSA."  It feels patronizing, or like I'm "the other." I also have come to question how helpful it is to constantly view SSA as a problem that needs to be abated or corrected.  Once I started considering the possibility that SSA is not an accident, and part of something bigger that God chooses not to take away because He wants me to learn something, that was a big step in me being able to love myself as I am.  I think that Heavenly Father wants us to love ourselves, too.  I am also better able to keep the commandments, I think.  At least this mindset has helped me to have a healthier outlook on my possibilities and limitations as a member of the Church living with the reality of SSA.  

 

If it makes you feel any better, I'm beset with DSA.

[Scott Lloyd]

As a member of the Church who is attracted to my same gender, I don't know how helpful it is when I hear things like being "beset with SSA."  It feels patronizing, or like I'm "the other." I also have come to question how helpful it is to constantly view SSA as a problem that needs to be abated or corrected.  Once I started considering the possibility that SSA is not an accident, and part of something bigger that God chooses not to take away because He wants me to learn something, that was a big step in me being able to love myself as I am.  I think that Heavenly Father wants us to love ourselves, too.  I am also better able to keep the commandments, I think.  At least this mindset has helped me to have a healthier outlook on my possibilities and limitations as a member of the Church living with the reality of SSA.  

Sky, I don't mean to offend.

 

If you are making your best efforts under the circumstances to obey the commandments of God, I salute you.

[omni]

. 

 

You got a rep point on a blank post?  How do I do that?

[Scott Lloyd]

You got a rep point on a blank post?  How do I do that?

Give me one for this post, and I'll show you.

[rockpond]

He seemed implicitly to be addressing those who, on the matter of the redefinition of marriage, for example, argue in essence that the Brethren hold to the positions that they do because they are old, out-of-touch ("living in a bubble") sticks-in-the-mud who can't muster the gumption to go to God and get Him to change His mind on the law of chastity so that the Church's position more closely matches shifting societal trends.

 

It seems counterproductive to misrepresent the position of those who have differing views.  I'm not aware of anyone who believes the Church should change its position so that it will match shifting societal trends.  The reasons tend to run much deeper as many of us felt that way back when we were still a minority viewpoint.