Daniel Peterson Rips It Up

[BCSpace]

Not lengthy enough to know much in the way of details, but I was impressed with how Daniel Peterson handled these questions:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx2K9tVURns

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sY2QVsJEA

 

I am curious as to the horse bone evidence he is referring to and I don't necessarily agree with the argument BoM horses being possibly some other animal but the answers nevertheless are all good.  An apologist can learn from these responses.

 

Was posted earlier at the trailer park as if such would be damaging to the Peterson or the Church.  I don't see that at all.

 

I get the impression that the questioner was a plant and Peterson did not know he was being videoed.  Daniel, I apologize if you don't like video of yourself up here, but I think it would be helpful for other LDS to see this plus you're already all over youtube anyway.

 

Good job!

[awyatt]

Dan did not know he was being recorded. The person who did the recording and posted these is NewNameNoah, the same guy who last year went into the temple, recorded the endowment session, and posted it all over the Internet.

 

-Allen

[Bob Crockett]

In half the states it is a crime to record audio without permission in a private setting.

[BCSpace]

I don't know what I would do in his case.  I would be tempted to find out from the local leadership who that was since I think he would now be easy to identify and go after him legally or ecclesiastically.  But perhaps it would be better to ignore it and feel good that 'Noah' just did some positive work for the Church by posting the video or perhaps just make sure the local leadership knows who that person is and what he did and keep an eye on him.

[awyatt]

Yep, but not in Utah. Only one party to the recording needs to know it is occurring.

 

However, this is video *and* audio. Video recording laws are different than audio recording laws, and I'm not sure what they are for Utah.

 

-Allen

[BCSpace]

The person who did the recording and posted these is NewNameNoah, the same guy who last year went into the temple, recorded the endowment session, and posted it all over the Internet.

 

That I knew which was why (plus the angle of the camera) I figured he didn't know he was being recorded.  But now we have him do we not?  Anyone who was in that room might well be able to identify this perp.

[pogi]

I love the exasperated sigh at 4:22 in the second video.

[Scott Lloyd]

He secretly records it and then posts it anonymously?

 

Guy's got a lot of courage.

[David T]

I don't think his real name or identity is a secret. I understand he also posted a video of himself at Priesthood session making the point that a rabid anti ex-Mo was allowed in, while active women were not.

Edited April 7, 2014 by David T

[Gray]

I suppose NNN thinks he's accomplished something here? 

[frank_jessop]

In half the states it is a crime to record audio without permission in a private setting.

Was the meeting a "private" setting? Experience has shown that when meetings are called to "unshake" the shaken faith, that recordings of some form are made. Is there a reasonable expectation privacy in such a setting? That no one would record a meeting intended to unshake the faith?

As for the questions and response, both were poor in my opinion. Lots of words were said, but no real substance.

Have horse bones found in the New World been dated - by accepted scientific dating standards - to dates corresponding with the Book Of Mormon?

OR

Have horse bones been found in the New World depths associated with historical times that correspond with the event of the Book Of Mormon. (The speaker withhold that the bones have not been dated)

There is an important distinction between the two statements.

The only real value in the answers I heard concerned sexual relations between Joseph Smith and some of his plural wives; but even that value was limited.

The questioner was probably a great annoyance to Daniel Peterson, I think Peterson handle the obvious antagonism well; not engaging in a ***-for-tat annoyance.

[Mystery Meat]

Not lengthy enough to know much in the way of details, but I was impressed with how Daniel Peterson handled these questions:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx2K9tVURns

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sY2QVsJEA

 

I am curious as to the horse bone evidence he is referring to and I don't necessarily agree with the argument BoM horses being possibly some other animal but the answers nevertheless are all good.  An apologist can learn from these responses.

 

Was posted earlier at the trailer park as if such would be damaging to the Peterson or the Church.  I don't see that at all.

 

I get the impression that the questioner was a plant and Peterson did not know he was being videoed.  Daniel, I apologize if you don't like video of yourself up here, but I think it would be helpful for other LDS to see this plus you're already all over youtube anyway.

 

Good job!

 

Peterson owned him. Whoever that guy is he made a complete fool of himself. I feel sorry for him and hope he repents.

[BCSpace]

As for the questions and response, both were poor in my opinion. Lots of words were said, but no real substance.

Have horse bones found in the New World been dated - by accepted scientific dating standards - to dates corresponding with the Book Of Mormon?

OR

Have horse bones been found in the New World depths associated with historical times that correspond with the event of the Book Of Mormon. (The speaker withhold that the bones have not been dated)

There is an important distinction between the two statements.

The only real value in the answers I heard concerned sexual relations between Joseph Smith and some of his plural wives; but even that value was limited.

 

 

Yeah, it's not super meaty or weighty, but I think it has value in the poise and is good for the beginning apologist to see what's afoot and how such things might be handled; the direction one might take and so forth.

[Grudunza]

Peterson is great. I've heard him on some radio shows dealing with callers, and like in these videos, he's calm, cool, and answers things very well without being condescending or dismissive.

[awyatt]

Yeah, it's not super meaty or weighty, but I think it has value in the poise and is good for the beginning apologist to see what's afoot and how such things might be handled; the direction one might take and so forth.

 

I would have been surprised if it had been meaty. Dan wasn't talking to scholars -- he was talking to a group of YM and YM, IIRC.

 

-Allen

[Duncan]

I would have been surprised if it had been meaty. Dan wasn't talking to scholars -- he was talking to a group of YM and YM, IIRC.

 

-Allen

 

I am assuming this fella is older then YM, YW, how did he get in?!

[Scott Lloyd]

I would have been surprised if it had been meaty. Dan wasn't talking to scholars -- he was talking to a group of YM and YM, IIRC.

 

-Allen

In this, he reminds me of the story of Nehemiah.

 

As related by President Uchtdorf in April 2009 general conference, here's what happened:

 

 

Nehemiah

Nehemiah of the Old Testament is a great example of staying focused and committed to an important task. Nehemiah was an Israelite who lived in exile in Babylon and served as cupbearer to the king. One day the king asked Nehemiah why he seemed so sad. Nehemiah replied, “Why should not my countenance be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ [graves], lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire?”⁴

When the king heard this, his heart was softened, and he gave Nehemiah the authority to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the city. However, not everyone was happy with this plan. In fact, several rulers who lived near Jerusalem grieved exceedingly “that there was come a man to seek the welfare of the children of Israel.”⁵ These men “took great indignation, and mocked the Jews.”⁶

Fearless, Nehemiah did not allow the opposition to distract him. Instead, he organized his resources and manpower and moved forward rebuilding the city, “for the people had a mind to work.”⁷

But as the walls of the city began to rise, opposition intensified. Nehemiah’s enemies threatened, conspired, and ridiculed. Their threats were very real, and they grew so intimidating that Nehemiah confessed, “They all made us afraid.”⁸ In spite of the danger and the ever-present threat of invasion, the work progressed. It was a time of stress, for every builder “had his sword girded by his side, and so builded.”⁹

As the work continued, Nehemiah’s enemies became more desperate. Four times they entreated him to leave the safety of the city and meet with them under the pretense of resolving the conflict, but Nehemiah knew that their intent was to do him harm. Each time they approached him, he responded with the same answer: “I am doing a great work, so that I cannot come down.”¹⁰

What a remarkable response! With that clear and unchanging purpose of heart and mind, with that great resolve, the walls of Jerusalem rose until they were rebuilt in an astonishing 52 days.¹¹

Nehemiah refused to allow distractions to prevent him from doing what the Lord wanted him to do.

 

 

Dan no doubt understood that he was doing a great work in building the faith of the young people he was speaking to and thus refused to be distracted by the sniping of one malevolent antagonist.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[3DOP]

It is pretty amazing that anyone could think that those two videos would be detrimental to Mormonism. More impressed than ever with DCP.

 

I was particularly intrigued with the three kinds of history.

 

A---for edification purposes. 

B---for "de-edification" purposes (those who become familiar with this can never be satisfied with A again. They will stay B or move on to C)

C---more human, deals with problems, and attempts reconciliation with A.

 

I think it is a very reasonable way of approaching all history, recognizing that most history is written and read with a desire for a certain outcome. We can't complain about that. Historians are people too. People aren't drawn to write about subjects that leave them unmoved. Ultimately, people of good will, having exposed themselves to level B material about a particular historical figure or institution, have to discern what is historically true by allowing parties a chance to respond at level C. We have to beware of the temptation to be happy to stop at level B for somebody else, while only engaging in C level when it is in connection with our own favored subjects. That is what happens to the anti-Mormon...or...anti-________.

Edited April 8, 2014 by 3DOP

[awyatt]

I am assuming this fella is older then YM, YW, how did he get in?!

 

Could have been a parent or relative to one of the kids, no?

 

Personally, I don't think he brought up the subjects to "test" or "hassle" Dan in any way. I think he brought them up to plant doubts in the minds of the youth there.

 

-Allen

[barbarbar]

Pretty sure the only ripping that guy does is of his pants...if the guy spent as much time exercising as he does participating in non-sensical apologetics he'd probably wouldn't be a cardiac event waiting to happen.

 

Pretty sure you're banned.  Yes, you are.

[escott3564]

Not lengthy enough to know much in the way of details, but I was impressed with how Daniel Peterson handled these questions:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx2K9tVURns

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sY2QVsJEA

 

I am curious as to the horse bone evidence he is referring to and I don't necessarily agree with the argument BoM horses being possibly some other animal but the answers nevertheless are all good.  An apologist can learn from these responses.

 

Was posted earlier at the trailer park as if such would be damaging to the Peterson or the Church.  I don't see that at all.

 

I get the impression that the questioner was a plant and Peterson did not know he was being videoed.  Daniel, I apologize if you don't like video of yourself up here, but I think it would be helpful for other LDS to see this plus you're already all over youtube anyway.

 

Good job!

I thought that Dan was INCREDIBLY classy, and did an AMAZING job!

[escott3564]

In half the states it is a crime to record audio without permission in a private setting.

 

Hey, Bob, the guy who did this was Mike Norton.  He is the one who did the hidden camera trick for a lot of the temple stuff that is on YouTube as well.  He is a first class jerk.  He hid the camera.  Dan didn't know he was being filmed at the time.  I have no idea how he managed to get into the meeting, but it was definitely a ploy to trip up Dan and make him look bad.  The good news is, now Dan knows what he looks like, so he can't pull that crap on him again.

 

Knowing that information, does it look like Dan or even the American Fork ward where this took place, has a case?  I would love to see an example made out of this guy.

 

This was a youth fireside that Dan was speaking at as favor for a friend.

 

I thought that Dan hit it out of the park.  He stayed very calm, and, if Mike had actually been serious about learning something (Ha!), he gave him some good reading material.

[wenglund]

I thought that Dan was INCREDIBLY classy, and did an AMAZING job!

 

...as contrasted with this juvenile post from barbarbar;

 

Pretty sure the only ripping that guy does is of his pants...if the guy spent as much time exercising as he does participating in non-sensical apologetics he'd probably wouldn't be a cardiac event waiting to happen.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[escott3564]

...as contrasted with this juvenile post from barbarbar;

 

 

 

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

I didn't think that personal attacks were allowed here.  Barbarbar's comment is blatantly ad hom. 

[Mystery Meat]

Pretty sure the only ripping that guy does is of his pants...if the guy spent as much time exercising as he does participating in non-sensical apologetics he'd probably wouldn't be a cardiac event waiting to happen.

 

This comment tells me everything I need to know about what kind of person you are. You have lost any credibility you had (not much) with this comment.