Truth 101 Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Ok, so I've been "warned" about the rules here. So I've decided to start a topic about the true story of Joseph Smith. Note: I'm not indicating the true story is a bad one, I'm indicating let's get down to the nitty gritty of JS's life. What is the true story about Joseph Smith? Let's iron out the details of the first prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Post in the thread and contribute if you want, if you don't want to contribute to this thread, then please don't post. I kinda wanna make this a focused discussion and would kindly ask that nobody argue, but debate with facts and references. This board seems diverse enough, and I promise to remain as objective as I can, if I didn't care about the LDS church at all, I wouldn't even have joined this site in the first place. Like my screen name says let's get down to the truth. Again, please post references also. "Smith was born in Sharon, Vermont, the fifth of eleven children born to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith. By 1817, Smith's family had moved to the "burned-over district" of western New York, an area repeatedly swept by religious revivals during theSecond Great Awakening. Smith family members held divergent views about organized religion, but they believed in visions and prophecies and engaged in folk religious practices typical of the era. Smith briefly investigated Methodism, but he was generally disillusioned with the churches of his day."taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_of_Joseph_Smith That seems like a good place to start. What's next? 2
Tiki Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 It was told by an Angel of God to Joseph Smith that his name "should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people."Thank you for proving him to be a true prophet of God. 1
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted March 22, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 22, 2014 It was told by an Angel of God to Joseph Smith that his name "should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people."Thank you for proving him to be a true prophet of God. I don't want to be contrary, but the simple fact that people revile someone doesn't serve well as evidence that they are called of God. Fred Phelps, the founder and leader of Westboro Baptist church (yes, those folks who protest at military funerals) said that the fact that people hated him showed that he was truly called of God. Do you believe it? What about Torquemada, the prime face of the Spanish Inquisition? Does the fact that his name is "had for evil among all nations" show that he is was from God? It is a terrible thing to assume that because the "world" is against you, you must be from God. 7
Coreyb Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) His mother had dreams and his father had visions according to Lucy Mack Smiths "Joseph Smith and his progenitors" . By the way Truth, this thread is quite the undertaking. Good luck Edited March 22, 2014 by Coreyb
oremites Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Torquemada ... Fred Phelps I think you missed the "good" part of the quote.
Popular Post guerreiro9 Posted March 22, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 22, 2014 That seems like a good place to start. What's next?What's next is you put down whatever electronic device you are using and go find a copy of Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman.After reading it you will be properly equipped to have an informed discussion on Joseph Smith (something you will not get from Wikipedia).-guerreiro9 7
cdowis Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I don't want to be contrary, but the simple fact that people revile someone doesn't serve well as evidence that they are called of God. Fred Phelps, the founder and leader of Westboro Baptist church (yes, those folks who protest at military funerals) said that the fact that people hated him showed that he was truly called of God. Do you believe it? What about Torquemada, the prime face of the Spanish Inquisition? Does the fact that his name is "had for evil among all nations" show that he is was from God? It is a terrible thing to assume that because the "world" is against you, you must be from God. You are confused. The world hated Stalin, but when did he prophecy that his name would be "held for good and evil among all the nations"? Indeed please document all of those whom you mentioned where there was a prophecy from the Lord making such a statement. The Lord made no such statement, no such prophecy was made. There is no promise made by the Lord on any of these individuals that He gave his approval to their work in His name. This prophecy was fulfilled literally as evidence of his prophetic calling. Edited March 22, 2014 by cdowis
rick7475 Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) He and all his family and other friends believed in all the regular folk superstitions of the day like magic talismans and stones and divining rods. As a boy he played rough and tumble games and probably got into some scraps, When he was 7 he suffered from typhoid and as a result he got a bone infection in his left leg. His caring parents refused to accept the typical treatment doctors recommended of amputation, instead they sought after the best doctors and new medical procedures and his leg was saved. By the way, the best recent biography of Joseph Smith's life is written by Richard Bushman, A Rough Stone Rolling. The best book series on Joseph Smith's plural wives is written by David C. Hales. Joseph Smith's Polygamy Vol 1, 2, and 3. The best book on Book of Mormon archaeology is anything written by John L. Sorenson, such as Mormon Codex or anything by Brant Gardner. The best books on the Book of Abraham history is anything by John Gee. And there are numerous other authors on Mormon related topics such as Daniel C. Peterson, John Tvedtnes, and Hugh Nibley and many many more with outstanding credentials. Most have blogs and web sites and even post here sometimes, or do AMA's on Reddit. Those will be my sources if I post here, not wikipedia, I suggest if you are really interested in the truth of Joseph Smith, read Bushman. Edited March 22, 2014 by rick7475 1
Tacenda Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 What's next is you put down whatever electronic device you are using and go find a copy of Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman.After reading it you will be properly equipped to have an informed discussion on Joseph Smith (something you will not get from Wikipedia).-guerreiro9Haha, this is a good suggestion. I hope Truth101 makes it all the way through, I sure didn't. 1
Coreyb Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Haha, this is a good suggestion. I hope Truth101 makes it all the way through, I sure didn't.Why not? I couldn't put it down! 1
Popular Post Storm Rider Posted March 22, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 22, 2014 Truth, maybe it would be easier if you just asked the questions you really want to know about. This is not history book, but forum for discussion. There are thousands of topics that could be discussed about Joseph Smith and I suspect that each of them has been addressed on this forum at one time or another. Additionally, it would be helpful if you came to an understanding that you have no "new" position on Joseph Smith; that there is no "new" information on him. Many of us have been around the block many times and have studied this man from a historical context and a spiritual context. If you are looking to make Joseph to be a perfect man, then you will be sorely disappointed. If you are trying to make him a man devoid of admirable attributes, then you will also be disappointed. Joseph Smith was a man who woke up and put his pants on just like every other person. He had faults and he had strengths. Some believe he was a prophet and others believe he was a scoundrel. The great thing is that you get to choose and no one here will judge you for your position. However, if you want to come here with a giant chip on your shoulder or think that you will show those faithful, but stupid Mormons on this forum a thing or two, this will always be a short conversation. We don't deal well with your chip on the shoulder and no one is here to "prove" something to the other. It is just a place for friendly discussion. More importantly, we are generally talking about sacred, spiritual matters most of the time. This a a forum of respect and we demand that of each participant. If you have questions, ask them and people will interact with you and it will be a discussion. Enjoy your time here. 5
strappinglad Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Haha, this is a good suggestion. I hope Truth101 makes it all the way through, I sure didn't. Got any 38 year olds in the family?? Even a quick overview of Joseph's life and trials and accomplishments will give one reason to appreciate his character. Few of us would have faired as well given his circumstances. I saw a sign in an office yesterday. It read," if you want to avoid criticism ,do nothing, say nothing , and be nothing." While flawed, it does have a point.
Garden Girl Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 What's next is you put down whatever electronic device you are using and go find a copy of Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman.After reading it you will be properly equipped to have an informed discussion on Joseph Smith (something you will not get from Wikipedia).-guerreiro9 Truth... your attitude is laughable... and you do make me laugh. The above highlighted suggestion is exactly right. You post on this Board as if you have some new "truth" about Joseph Smith that none of us stupid Mormons don't know about. Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling" is one of the most complete biographies ever written about Joseph, warts and all as they say GG.
Popular Post Wanderer7 Posted March 22, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Let's see... Here are a few things about Joseph Smith. Keep in mind he never once denied the validity of his spiritual claims.In no particular order:-he lost several children, partially due to the difficult life he lived-lost friends to mobs-lost his home multiple times-never became wealthy (which has been largely attributed to his propensity to give everything he had away)-didn't institute polygamy for several years after receiving the revelation for it, and then only after being threatened by an angel with a sword.-worked hard for his own livelihood, including assisting in the building of temples-was tarred, feathered, nearly poisoned, shot at, threatened many times, jailed or arrested countless times-could have left for the west but returned to Carthage to what he prophesied would be his death (despite having been threatened and jailed many times before)-was hated by his wife's family for his claims-had many friends turn on him, some of whom were responsible for the severest of his persecutions-freely confessed his flaws, including recording rebukes from the Lord Himself, which would have been easy enough to cover up or hide-suffered many severe illnesses, including cholera, malaria, and other serious maladies associated with frontier life Edited March 23, 2014 by Wanderer7 5
Tacenda Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Why not? I couldn't put it down! That's what the electronic stuff did to me, it made me lazy. I'm glad you got through it like that. I've bought a couple of books on Amazon that I've yet to finish, it's been a year.
mfbukowski Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Enjoy your time here. ...short as it may be. 2
thesometimesaint Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 ...short as it may be. While I've seen nothing he's posted that would necessitate his removal from the board. You're probably right that his stay will be short lived, by his own choice.
Coreyb Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 That's what the electronic stuff did to me, it made me lazy. I'm glad you got through it like that. I've bought a couple of books on Amazon that I've yet to finish, it's been a year.Yeah, the Internet does have that effect on me some times, but books are where all the real learning takes place. Learning online is like taking a class where one hundred professors are lecturing all at the same time, and you have to figure out which one actually has a PhD.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Ok, so I've been "warned" about the rules here. So I've decided to start a topic about the true story of Joseph Smith. Note: I'm not indicating the true story is a bad one, I'm indicating let's get down to the nitty gritty of JS's life. What is the true story about Joseph Smith? Let's iron out the details of the first prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Post in the thread and contribute if you want, if you don't want to contribute to this thread, then please don't post. I kinda wanna make this a focused discussion and would kindly ask that nobody argue, but debate with facts and references. This board seems diverse enough, and I promise to remain as objective as I can, if I didn't care about the LDS church at all, I wouldn't even have joined this site in the first place. Like my screen name says let's get down to the truth. Again, please post references also. "Smith was born in Sharon, Vermont, the fifth of eleven children born to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith. By 1817, Smith's family had moved to the "burned-over district" of western New York, an area repeatedly swept by religious revivals during theSecond Great Awakening. Smith family members held divergent views about organized religion, but they believed in visions and prophecies and engaged in folk religious practices typical of the era. Smith briefly investigated Methodism, but he was generally disillusioned with the churches of his day."taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_of_Joseph_Smith That seems like a good place to start. What's next?Very good, but I don't see a question. Also if you love the Church, return with your Mother, instead of saying you will never return in your intro. The joy that it would bring to your Mom will be overwhelming, and maybe Dad with follow your led...fathers can look up to their children. Comeback my brother.
Freedom Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Where is mr 101 go? was there a question we were to answer? I'm a bit confused. 1
rick7475 Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Where is mr 101 go? was there a question we were to answer? I'm a bit confused. I believe we have given him too much truth to study. Mr Truth 101, perhaps, as my Civil War history professor used to warn us, you need to narrow it down to one topic at a time. BTW Joseph's brother fought in the Civil War, more truth for you! Go ahead, pick a topic!
Tiki Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) K well do you have a reference?Yes Sir. Attached is a screenshot from JosephSmithPapers.org showing it was written down. Edited March 22, 2014 by Tiki 1
Kenngo1969 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Haha, this is a good suggestion. I hope Truth101 makes it all the way through, I sure didn't.Did it interfere too much with your preconceptions/prejudices? Or are you simply too steeped in the rhetoric of his opponents for any contrary/contrasting positive views of him to be of much interest to you? Sorry, Tacenda. I don't necessarily have anything against you personally, but I do think those are fair (if frank) questions.
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