VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) Should all sins be confessed to a bishop even if you've already repented of them, felt sorrow, and won't do them again? I ask because one of my best friends from church confided in me with one of his sins and he's afraid to tell his bishop. He told me he went to an inappropriate massage place that performed petting and oral sex. He said he's truly sorry about the mistakes and won't do them again, but he's too afraid to tell his bishop because he has already confessed past fornication sins to the bishop and is scared the bishop will take away his temple recommend. Any advice on what I should tell my friend would be appreciated. Edited March 1, 2014 by VideoGameJunkie
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Should all sins be confessed to a bishop even if you've already repented of them, felt sorrow, and won't do them again? I ask because one of my best friends from church confided in me with one of his sins and he's afraid to tell his bishop. He told me he went to an inappropriate massage place that performed petting and oral sex. He said he's truly sorry about the mistakes and won't do them again, but he's too afraid to tell his bishop because he has already confessed past fornication sins to the bishop and is scared the bishop will take away his temple recommend. Any advice on what I should tell my friend would be appreciated.No, otherwise the Bishop would never see his family again.
Kenngo1969 Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Perhaps his Temple Recommend needs to be taken away for a time. Confession (and any action resulting therefrom) is not intended to be punitive but, rather, simply is part of the repentance process (and it also helps protect the good name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). For example, if anyone were to become aware of his sins, that might not reflect well upon the Church. Since he told you, that's a pretty good indicator that he is probably not as at peace with the situation as he might have wanted you to believe. Nobody likes having a boil lanced, but it simply festers until it is: the sooner, the better. I wish your friend well. 2
strappinglad Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Does he think it is better to go to the temple in his current state? Was this recent behavior or part of the previous confession? If recent , then the statement of sorrow and commitment to refrain will ring hollow if he is not willing to at least speak to the bishop and let the chips fall as they may. 1
Danzo Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Should all sins be confessed to a bishop even if you've already repented of them, felt sorrow, and won't do them again? I ask because one of my best friends from church confided in me with one of his sins and he's afraid to tell his bishop. He told me he went to an inappropriate massage place that performed petting and oral sex. He said he's truly sorry about the mistakes and won't do them again, but he's too afraid to tell his bishop because he has already confessed past fornication sins to the bishop and is scared the bishop will take away his temple recommend. Any advice on what I should tell my friend would be appreciated. It it still bothers him, he should go to the bishop. Full repentance is the only way to feel clean again. That is the whole point of going to the bishop, he is their to help sinners, not to condemn them. See John 3:17
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 He originally confessed about all his past sins to the bishop last June, then he was clean until he had oral sex in October, and then clean after that until he went to the massage and had petting last Saturday. He's worried about the bishop seeing him as a repeat offender.
Popular Post The Nehor Posted March 1, 2014 Popular Post Posted March 1, 2014 He originally confessed about all his past sins to the bishop last June, then he was clean until he had oral sex in October, and then clean after that until he went to the massage and had petting last Saturday. He's worried about the bishop seeing him as a repeat offender. He is a repeat offender. Seriously, tell him to go with the Spirit. If he is too afraid to go to the Bishop tell him to start sincerely repenting on his own. If he gets the Spirit while repenting (as he should if repentance is sincere) then he will be directed if he needs to speak with the Bishop (likely). 5
Danzo Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 He originally confessed about all his past sins to the bishop last June, then he was clean until he had oral sex in October, and then clean after that until he went to the massage and had petting last Saturday. He's worried about the bishop seeing him as a repeat offender. He is probably more worried about what the bishop would think than what god would think. I think he needs help. I think the bishop is there to help him. The bishop is not there to condemn him. Getting clean is more important the what the bishop thinks of him 3
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 Thanks The Nehor! I also linked him to Jeffrey Holland's talk "Remember Lot's Wife" on youtube. He does seem really sincere this time about keeping the commandments. He cried when confiding in me so I feel he is sincere.
Garden Girl Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Thanks The Nehor! I also linked him to Jeffrey Holland's talk "Remember Lot's Wife" on youtube. He does seem really sincere this time about keeping the commandments. He cried when confiding in me so I feel he is sincere. I'm sure he is sincere, just like he was after each of the last two times... sometimes going to the Bishop is what helps a person feel the load off of their shoulders and helps them not reoffend... it gives them the added incentive to be strong and continue to stay clean. He confessed all his sins to the Bishop in June but reoffended in Oct... was sincere until last Saturday... seems like he has a 4-month time frame... perhaps going to the Bishop will help him break that, with increased temple attendance, but I don't see how he can go to the temple without first talking with the Bishop. I do wish him strength and increased effort... and success. GG 1
rpn Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Well, what you describe is behavior that violates his temple covenants, and that he needs help to permanently fix the issues and fully repent. (It isn't repented of until he no longer does it having built in the self-discipline and upfront protects to avoid temptations, and he has had the change of heart so he doesn't even want to do it. Once he does that, he still needs the official church forgiveness (probably through a disciplinary counsel during which he may well be disfellowshipped). IME, forgiveness of God and forgiveness of the church are not the same thing, nor do they necessarily occur at the same time or with the same conditions. (I think this is because mortals don't know us like He does, whatever they have been called to do). But a member cannot be entirely square with God until he has submitted to Church discipline too. That is simply part of this. For the member, there are a couple of choices. One is to avoid priesthood leaders until 30 years later (having struggled with guilt and the continuing sin for all that time alone, maybe conquering it, maybe not, but knowing that you harbor a secret you are keeping from the Lord's anointed all the while you try to serve others and be the best you can be. Lots of member take this road and some will tell you that escaping the immediate consequences was worth it. The people I have known who took this route, and I know quite a few, have a difficult time getting to peace and full control over themselves. It leaks out in anger or impatience with spouse or kids. The underlying fear of being caught or knowledge of unworthiness makes it harder to stay on the path. But men especially are able to compartmentalize and some do very good work, including serving in bishoprics or other leadership callings (all the while thinking the leaders are a fraud because they don't KNOW). Others decide to confess and let the process work. Sometimes this means excommunication and the members are so embarrassed or angry they never step foot in church again. They decide the church is either untrue or unfair. Other members feel equally embarrassed and hurt but try to do what is required to fix it and are re-baptized (which doesn't always guarantee that they have conquered that or other sins). Some members are frozen into a state of deciding to do nothing. Perhaps your friend is young so this won't impact his existing children, but it will mean that his eventual spouse will have to be told everything before she can give informed consent to the marriage. Church discipline is never easy, and the person experiencing it often would not agree that it is loving in any way. But it is the Lord's way of helping people to fully resolve serious sin. Yes, what you describe is serious sin. If your friend is unmarried, he needs to get in full control of himself before he will be ready to marry. (Young people may think that this is about abstinence and therefore is only a temptation before marriage when celibacy is required. Married people will tell you that every marriage goes through time tables when temptations are common for various reasons and learning to control one's intimate desires consistent with God's will is utterly required during a marriage, perhaps even more so that before a marriage.)
thesometimesaint Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Should all sins be confessed to a bishop even if you've already repented of them, felt sorrow, and won't do them again? I ask because one of my best friends from church confided in me with one of his sins and he's afraid to tell his bishop. He told me he went to an inappropriate massage place that performed petting and oral sex. He said he's truly sorry about the mistakes and won't do them again, but he's too afraid to tell his bishop because he has already confessed past fornication sins to the bishop and is scared the bishop will take away his temple recommend. Any advice on what I should tell my friend would be appreciated. No. Only those sin that would effect your membership in the Church should be confessed. Repented of sins are just that repented of.
thatjimguy Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Well, what you describe is behavior that violates his temple covenants, and that he needs help to permanently fix the issues and fully repent. (It isn't repented of until he no longer does it having built in the self-discipline and upfront protects to avoid temptations, and he has had the change of heart so he doesn't even want to do it. Sorry, I don't get this. To fully repent means you are "invulnerable" to temptation? If this what repentance would be then no one on earth is repentant for many things. They may not be as serious as this, but unrepentant none the less. They keep sinning whatever the subject matter is. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 I would hate to see him excommunicated.
mfbukowski Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Should all sins be confessed to a bishop even if you've already repented of them, felt sorrow, and won't do them again? I ask because one of my best friends from church confided in me with one of his sins and he's afraid to tell his bishop. He told me he went to an inappropriate massage place that performed petting and oral sex. He said he's truly sorry about the mistakes and won't do them again, but he's too afraid to tell his bishop because he has already confessed past fornication sins to the bishop and is scared the bishop will take away his temple recommend. Any advice on what I should tell my friend would be appreciated.All sins which would affect your membership status should be confessed to the bishop. That is the official answer. That sin was definitely one which would potentially affect his membership especially since he has had problems before. On the other hand, if he is bound and determined to NOT confess it, which he should, I would advise him to voluntarily perhaps rip up his recommend and not attend the temple until he is ready to face the consequences and be absolutely sure that he has repented. It is best to confess now, but I would not want to see him compound his problems because of fear of the Bishop. If he waits a year or two without attending the temple, and THEN goes to the Bishop knowing he has repented and confesses then, it will be better than not having ever confessed. When I was a bishop people would sometimes come in and confess something that happened 20 years ago they had carried with them all that time. It is a terrible thing to carry that around for all that time 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 What do you think the Bishop will do to him since it would be his second time confessing to the bishop?
mfbukowski Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) What do you think the Bishop will do to him since it would be his second time confessing to the bishop?There is no way of knowing. What is important is that he man up and take responsibility. THAT is what the Lord wants. What the bishop does is secondary to him taking responsibility. THAT is what makes for repentance. Responsibility and taking the consequences whatever they are. Sin creates unintended consequences, if you want a better life you don't sin. That is how the Lord teaches us. Sin never creates true happiness. Edited March 1, 2014 by mfbukowski 1
Danzo Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 What do you think the Bishop will do to him since it would be his second time confessing to the bishop? The problem still seems to be fear of what the bishop would "do" to him, not what he "did" to himself. A repentant person is more worried about his sin and its eternal consequences than whether someone is going to "punish" him here. When we go to a bishop to confess we are not seeing him because he is smarter, or even better then we are, or even that tell something magic. We go to him because in his priesthood position he represents the Lord. By going to the bishop, we are humbling ourselves and seeking out forgiveness from Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that forgives us, rescues us, lifts the burden of sin from us. 2
thatjimguy Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 and be absolutely sure that he has repented. How in the world can you ever be sure you would never sin again?
Freedom Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Sins that should be confessed to a bishop are those that would affect your membership or temple worthiness, also you would go to the bishop with transgressions that require more help such as overcoming an addiction.
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 Has anyone here ever had to confess something to the bishop that they weren't proud of?
strappinglad Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 Has anyone here ever had to confess something to the bishop that they weren't proud of? If you are proud of it, I doubt you would feel it was a confession. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 1, 2014 Author Posted March 1, 2014 True. What I meant was has anyone had to confess something to the bishop?
Kevin Christensen Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 What your friend clearly needs is to ask the bishop about the Addiction Recovery Program. And if there is any discipline involved, just take it in stride as part of a decision "to do whatever it takes" to heal. According to A.A. "addicts are as sick as their secrets." FWIW Kevin Christensen Bethel Park, PA 2
rpn Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) What do you think the Bishop will do to him since it would be his second time confessing to the bishop?I'd be advising him to go at the point where his greatest concern isn't what the bishop will do to him (after all it won't even be the bishop since he is endowed). When his greatest concern is doing whatever ti takes to once again be square with God, THEN he is on the right path. At that point, he is likely prepared for whatever the Lord requires of him. Sorry, I don't get this. To fully repent means you are "invulnerable" to temptation?No. To fully repent you have to take steps to keep yourself away from temptation to the full extent that is possible. Planning to avoid it makes it considerably less likely you will fall into temptation. And if you are unwilling to put up the barriers, to think through the steps that led you there, and plan alternatives, you aren't yet fully committed to never doing it again. The first formal step in discipline is probation and the bishop can do this even with an endowed person. But since this is the second offense of fornication, I suspect a church disciplinary counsel will be held. Hopefully what will happen is exactly what this member needs to turn his life around. Edited March 1, 2014 by rpn
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