Addictions In The Next Life ?

[Duncan]

I was thinking what happens to people who never heard of the Gospel who die and have addictions, in terms of the next life. I have heard of people who drink themselves to death, overdose etc. and according to the scriptures those addictions go with them into the next life. How can those addictions go away if they accept the gospel? what if they got skewed on Christianity and were negative about it, die due to these addictive issues and didn't accept it here or were born before 1830 would they accept it there despite their problems? (apologize for the run on sentence!) I guess my question is what about addictions in the next life and people who haven't had their chance or were negatively impacted about God and salvation

[The Nehor]

Addictions carrying over to the next life is not in scripture. I first heard about it from accounts of the next life from dubious sources and that is usually where this idea comes from.

 

There have been statements from General Authorities about it being easier to repent here because you have the flesh here. I think some have conflated the two to create the doctrine that the damned are desperate for a fix. I personally doubt it. They are probably too busy paying for their sins and repenting to get into whatever kingdom they are going to end up in.

[Duncan]

Addictions carrying over to the next life is not in scripture. I first heard about it from accounts of the next life from dubious sources and that is usually where this idea comes from.

 

There have been statements from General Authorities about it being easier to repent here because you have the flesh here. I think some have conflated the two to create the doctrine that the damned are desperate for a fix. I personally doubt it. They are probably too busy paying for their sins and repenting to get into whatever kingdom they are going to end up in.

 

 

I was thinking it's not all that fair for people who have addictions who have never heard of the Church to be judged by a standard they didn't know anything about even if they heard it in the next life anyways, because they wouldn't be able to get rid of their cravings

[CV75]

I guess my question is what about addictions in the next life and people who haven't had their chance or were negatively impacted about God and salvation

I believe the Lord's grace will soften the blow and ease the transition into the Spirit World for anyone who was unfairly disadvantaged in the fallen world, so they can have every advantage to accept the Gospel that had been denied them.

 

 

I was thinking it's not all that fair for people who have addictions who have never heard of the Church to be judged by a standard they didn't know anything about even if they heard it in the next life anyways, because they wouldn't be able to get rid of their cravings

I would think the cravings would be spiritual, psychological, emotional, attentive, etc. and might rather be manifest as a deadening of spiritual sensitivity instead of a craving, but in either case, this is where I see the Lord's grace healing them spiitually to bring them to a level where they can fairly be taught and given an opportunity to choose.

 

In the New Testament, the Lord seemed to heal people who chose to later not follow Him, just so they would have the best opportunity to hear His message. The same probably happens on a spiritual basis in the Spirit World.

Edited January 22, 2014 by CV75

[Duncan]

I believe the Lord's grace will soften the blow and ease the transition into the Spirit World for anyone who was unfairly disadvantaged in the fallen world, so they can have every advantage to accept the Gospel that had been denied them.

 

 

I would think the cravings would be spiritual, psychological, emotional, attentive, etc. and might rather be manifest as a deadening of spiritual sensitivity instead of a craving, but in either case, this is where I see the Lord's grace healing them spiitually to bring them to a level where they can fairly be taught and given an opportunity to choose.

 

In the New Testament, the Lord seemed to heal people who chose to later not follow Him, just so they would have the best opportunity to hear His message. The same probably happens on a spiritual basis in the Spirit World.

 

 

excellent! what about people who may have been turned from religion here like say George Carlin that they wouldn't accept it there even though I doubt someone like him would have had the chance to hear it here

Edited January 22, 2014 by Duncan

[CV75]

excellent! what about people who may have been turned from religion here like say George Carlin that they wouldn't accept it there even though I doubt someone like him would have had the chance to hear it here

Many innocents suffer from the aftereffects of abuses or "traditions of their fatjers" that were heaped upon them against their will, many of which essentially "force" them to go astray. I think the Lord understands everyone's situation and His grace is sufficient to remove from them, even in the Spirit World, any originating or root cause of their miserable predicament that wasn't caused by their own willful rejection of the Light of Christ along the way. From there, they can pick up where their innocence was robbed of them and respond in full accord with their own unhindered agency. Whatever George's situation, I hope that by now his talents are being used to bring joy and laughter to everyone he meets!

[daz2]

I believe that addictions have biological as well as psychological roots.  That is why will power is not enough for the vast majority of addicts.  Just as mental illnesses (which I also believe have biological roots) will be healed in the next life, I believe the biological roots of addiction will also be eliminated so that "will power" will be enough.  In other words, I do not believe addictions will carry over to the next life.

[rpn]

Addictions are a physical thing.   I don't think death takes the craving away to the extent that it is a function of the brain and has taken over the spirit.   But imagine having the cravings, but not having a body to deal with it?   Wouldn't that be like the sensation of still feeling the leg that has been amputated? 

[nebula]

Addictions are a physical thing.   I don't think death takes the craving away to the extent that it is a function of the brain and has taken over the spirit.   But imagine having the cravings, but not having a body to deal with it?   Wouldn't that be like the sensation of still feeling the leg that has been amputated?

What an interesting analogy! One thing about phantom limb pain is that the pain vanishes if the sufferer subconsciously believes his limb to be intact and mobile. I read about a doctor who cured a patient suffering from a cramped phantom arm by rigging a mirror to the side with the missng arm and asking the patient to flex his good arm while looking into the mirror. Though the patient knew, of course, that the image was only a reflection, on a subconscious level the illusion was enough to relieve the pain. I'm not sure that's relevant to this discussion, but it's such a cool anecdote!

[CV75]

But imagine having the cravings, but not having a body to deal with it?

I think the attitudinal, emotional and psychic dependencies that accompany the physical addiction affect the spirit's reliance on the light of Christ instead of material substances. He enters the Spirit World blind to things of the spirit, and unable to manage them, and this would make it difficult for him to progress out of the prison he has created for himself--not that it would be impossible (that is the whole point of D&C 138).

[Rob Osborn]

However ones addictions go away, whether here or in the spirit world all will have the same chance to repent and accept the gospel and by proxy work be judged as if they repented and accepted the gospel in the flesh.

[Nofear]

What an interesting analogy! One thing about phantom limb pain is that the pain vanishes if the sufferer subconsciously believes his limb to be intact and mobile. I read about a doctor who cured a patient suffering from a cramped phantom arm by rigging a mirror to the side with the missng arm and asking the patient to flex his good arm while looking into the mirror. Though the patient knew, of course, that the image was only a reflection, on a subconscious level the illusion was enough to relieve the pain. I'm not sure that's relevant to this discussion, but it's such a cool anecdote!

 

The mirror therapy developed by Ramachandran is indeed fascinating. Not effective for everybody though and is a little controversial (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_box).

[BCSpace]

Addictions carrying over to the next life is not in scripture. I first heard about it from accounts of the next life from dubious sources and that is usually where this idea comes from.

 

There have been statements from General Authorities about it being easier to repent here because you have the flesh here. I think some have conflated the two to create the doctrine that the damned are desperate for a fix. I personally doubt it. They are probably too busy paying for their sins and repenting to get into whatever kingdom they are going to end up in.

 

Actually, the source for the idea that addictions are carried over into the next life IS the scriptures:

 

Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

Alma 34:34

 

AND the official doctrine:

 

Alma 34:34–35. That Same Spirit Will Possess Us

    

Amulek made it clear that we are, by our daily choices, ultimately giving ourselves over to the control or influence of either the Spirit of the Lord or the spirit of the devil. President Harold B. Lee (1899–1973) gave the following explanation of Alma 34:35: “To those who die in their wicked state, not having repented, the scriptures say the devil shall seal them as his own (see Alma 34:35), which means that until they have paid the uttermost farthing for what they have done, they shall not be redeemed from his grasp. When they shall have been subjected to the buffetings of Satan sufficient to have satisfied justice, then they shall be brought forth out of the grasp of Satan and shall be assigned to that place in our Father’s celestial, terrestrial, or telestial world merited by their life here upon this earth” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1996], 59).

    

Elder Melvin J. Ballard (1873–1939) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles emphasized the importance of repenting during mortality:

“This life is the time in which men are to repent. Do not let any of us imagine that we can go down to the grave not having overcome the corruptions of the flesh and then lose in the grave all our sins and evil tendencies. They will be with us. They will be with the spirit when separated from the body.

“… [Mortality] is the time when men are more pliable and susceptible” (The Three Degrees of Glory: A Discourse [sept. 22, 1922], 11–12).

 

http://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-30-alma-32-35?lang=eng

[BCSpace]

Consider also:

 

Addiction to any substance enslaves not only the physical body but the spirit as well. Therefore, repentance is best achieved while one still has a body to help attain spiritual supremacy: “This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; … this life is the day for men to perform their labors. …

“Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance; … if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. …

 

“That same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life … will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.” (Alma 34:32–34.)

 

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1988/10/addiction-or-freedom?lang=eng

 

Etc. Etc.

[Kenngo1969]

I'm not a hundred percent sold on the idea that there's a 1:1 correlation in the sources BCSpace cites between behavior that is motivated primarily by addiction and behavior that is a willful choice that is motivated primarily by having submitted one's will to the Adversary.  Addiction is the snake that everyone who is ensnared by it says, "Oh, no worries.  I'll just pick it up by the tail," never dreaming that that "snake" will turn on him or her.  Do I think that addictions are automagically cured upon entrance into the spirit world?  Not necessarily.  I think there'll probably still be work to be done in that regard on the other side.  (And even for those of us without addictions, Joseph Smith said that it will still be a great while after we enter the spirit world before we have learned all of the lessons pertaining to our final reward.)  And neither am I 100% sold on the idea that addictions are precisely akin to willful evil behavior.  The bottom line is, as much as we might like to draw a bright line and say that addictions are precisely akin to other evil behavior to which we might give ourselves up, 'tain't necessarily so: only God knows our hearts, and only He can judge.  

Edited January 23, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[The Nehor]

Actually, the source for the idea that addictions are carried over into the next life IS the scriptures:

 

 

AND the official doctrine:

I disagree. The quote from Alma states that you cannot turn around and repent afterwards and receive eternal life. The same spirit does go with you but addiction is a biological state not a spiritual one. If we take addictions with us then logically we take with us diseases and scars.

Note that not having an addiction anymore is NOT repentance.

It is true we take our evil and base desires with us but that does not mean that the addiction stays, just the desire. Addiction is a component of a desire but not the core. One can desire alcohol, opiates, pornography, gluttonous eating, sex, violence, etc. and not be addicted. Those desires go with us but the addiction does not.

Addiction does enslave the spirit and we are unable to alter ourselves in the same way without a body. Your quote does not support there being addictions in the next life; only that our sins and desires will (of course) follow us.

[Calm]

" If we take addictions with us then logically we take with us diseases and scars."

I think it was BY but it could have been someone else who claimed that when we were first resurrected that our bodies were identical to what they were at our death and that overtime they altered into a more perfect state depending on our spiritual state....but this never made sense to me since we aren't resurrected until after our spiritual refinement is done.

Wish I could find that quote.

[BCSpace]

I disagree.

 

I'm merely quoting the doctrine with which I have no reason to disagree.

 

" If we take addictions with us then logically we take with us diseases and scars."

I think it was BY but it could have been someone else who claimed that when we were first resurrected that our bodies were identical to what they were at our death and that overtime they altered into a more perfect state depending on our spiritual state....but this never made sense to me since we aren't resurrected until after our spiritual refinement is done.

Wish I could find that quote.

 

Let's turn again to the scriptures and note that the resurrected Christ showed the marks in his hands and feet to his disciples.  The OT Zechariah also predicts this.  One might, in the corresponding doctrinal publications on the various verses, also find this same notion spoken of doctrinally like the addiction quotes I gave above.

 

 

[The Nehor]

" If we take addictions with us then logically we take with us diseases and scars."

I think it was BY but it could have been someone else who claimed that when we were first resurrected that our bodies were identical to what they were at our death and that overtime they altered into a more perfect state depending on our spiritual state....but this never made sense to me since we aren't resurrected until after our spiritual refinement is done.

Wish I could find that quote.

Joseph Fielding Smith taught that physical infirmities would be healed nearly instantaneously in the resurrection.

I'm merely quoting the doctrine with which I have no reason to disagree.

 

Let's turn again to the scriptures and note that the resurrected Christ showed the marks in his hands and feet to his disciples.  The OT Zechariah also predicts this.  One might, in the corresponding doctrinal publications on the various verses, also find this same notion spoken of doctrinally like the addiction quotes I gave above.

The resurrection of Jesus was a special case. When John the Baptist returned to give the Aaronic Priesthood he did not have to hold his head on straight to keep it from falling off and Peter when he came to restore the Melchizedek was not reported to have marks in his hands and feet.

Jesus kept the marks for a reason and prophets have suggested that once His work is done they will be removed. This does not support the idea that we will carry our physical infirmities into the next world.

[Calm]

"Joseph Fielding Smith taught that physical infirmities would be healed nearly instantaneously in the resurrection."

So one was resurrected with infirmities, but not for long?

It is possible I have garbled the memory of that quote though I can visualise where I was when I read it and where on the page it was...still I know enough how memory works to know that doesn't mean it actually happened that way or at all.

[Duncan]

Consider also:

 

 

Etc. Etc.

 

 

but again, it's hardly fair to the millions of people who died, without knowing the Gospel, out there addicted to something and now they die and are told well, too bad for you you'll have to deal with this for eternity, that's my question is what about them? They weren't told about the Church and the Gospel until it was too late?

[Rob Osborn]

but again, it's hardly fair to the millions of people who died, without knowing the Gospel, out there addicted to something and now they die and are told well, too bad for you you'll have to deal with this for eternity, that's my question is what about them? They weren't told about the Church and the Gospel until it was too late?

Drop the "too late" from it. We must repent and overcome the natural man before the end of the millennium, whether now or after we have passed through mortality.

[nebula]

The mirror therapy developed by Ramachandran is indeed fascinating. Not effective for everybody though and is a little controversial (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_box).

Thanks for the link!

[CA Steve]

Are we supposed to believe that a child that dies after a few days of life, who was born addicted to drugs through no fault of its own, will suffer those addictions in the next life?

[Duncan]

Are we supposed to believe that a child that dies after a few days of life, who was born addicted to drugs through no fault of its own, will suffer those addictions in the next life?

 

 

thtat's a great question!