Transition From Custodians To Members Cleaning Buildings

[rongo]

When did this happen? My memory tells me that it happened around 15 years or so ago. Someone I'm corresponding with insists that this was only a few years ago. I know for a fact that it was at least 12, because we had building cleaning assignments before we moved to our current home.

 

Links would be nice (I'm terrible at googling, and especially bad at finding stuff on lds.org). I used to have articles from Bishop Hales and Bishop Burton on this, but I won't be able to find them online.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Duncan]

if it was 15 years ago then our stake has only known about it since about 10 years, it wasn't that long ago for me anyways that we were asked to get involved and by that maybe within the last 5. Although I do recall some stakes I served in in LA in the mission that did it but our stake didn't for some reason. Maybe they were rolling it out and seeing how it worked but who knows. Our Stake still employs a couple of janitors and has 2 fulltime PM group peeps

[mtomm]

They did start phasing them out about 15 years ago.  So everyone's impression of when they went away will be different.  In some places the members started taking on more cleaning responsibilities sooner than other places depending on the number of currently employed custodians.  There are no custodians now, only "Meetinghouse Workers" and Mechanics.  

They are FM groups, BTW, facilities management, changed from PM about 15 years ago.

Edited November 9, 2013 by mtomm

[rongo]

Thanks, both of you!

 

Anybody able to nail down timelines with links? How about in the Ensign (like I said, I know that some presiding bishops addressed it, but I'm terrible at finding things via search on lds.org)?

[rongo]

I did find this, though:

 

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=180&sourceId=dc2f66ce3a47b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

 

That puts it at around 1990.

[Garden Girl]

For my ward... it's less than 10 years, maybe 5 or so...

We have teams, and there's enough teams that we end up having to clean about once every 10 weeks.  We also have a professional company come in once every couple weeks to give a deeper cleaning. 

 

GG

[Calm]

(I'm terrible at googling, and especially bad at finding stuff on lds.org).

Use google to search lds.org with "site:lds.org" and then your search terms as I think google gives more info on what the link shows than lds.org....I know, not much help if you aren't good at googling....which is pretty much just choosing good search terms...always use a quote if you have that available as that usually quickly narrows down what you are looking for, you want to use search terms that aren't so common as to bring up millions but that you feel confident will be in what you are looking for.  google also has custom time options so you can look for a certain year, month or day and not just current and other stuff, look under "search tools".

[rongo]

For my ward... it's less than 10 years, maybe 5 or so...

We have teams, and there's enough teams that we end up having to clean about once every 10 weeks.  We also have a professional company come in once every couple weeks to give a deeper cleaning. 

 

GG

You're kidding. We have Facilities Management come twice a year and clean the carpets. I think they refinish the wood on the basketball court once a year, too. Other than that, it's the three wards in the building, each being responsible quarterly.

 

Usually, some ward has a party and red punch is spilled on the carpet within a week of one of the carpet cleanings . . .

[omni]

You're kidding. We have Facilities Management come twice a year and clean the carpets. I think they refinish the wood on the basketball court once a year, too. Other than that, it's the three wards in the building, each being responsible quarterly.

 

Usually, some ward has a party and red punch is spilled on the carpet within a week of one of the carpet cleanings . . .

I'd be interested to know why the difference. IIRC, Garden Girl lives in a small ward/branch in the Pacific NW. Perhaps in the smaller branches they provide a professional cleaning crew to give the members a break, whereas in the larger wards there's plenty of members for everyone to do their fair share.

[Bernard Gui]

We live in a large ward in the PNW. We have both weekly member cleaning and occasional professional cleaning.
What bothers me is the slowness in repairing damage and wear issues in the buildings. For example, in the storage closet there were huge holes in the sheet rock walls caused by over-enthusiastic brethren rolling round tables into the rack after ward functions. We tried for years to get FM to fix the holes, but finally gave up and made it a Scout service project. We installed ¾" plywood sheets behind the table storage rack: problem fixed forever for around $25, yet we were later advised that those kinds of problems must be addressed by the FM group. Our building has dozens and dozens of cosmetic damages that could be fixed in a day by a few handy people, but we are asked to let FM fix them. I could go down to Home Depot Monday and for around $12 replace all the broken electrical outlet covers in the building. We are still waiting. 

Edited November 10, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[AndyDnom]

needed to be done . Church doesn't have enough money for janitors!

[Tacenda]

My home teacher works on elevators in the church owned buildings/temples.  He said the Joseph Smith building is in need of repairs itself and is unsafe in places.  It makes you wonder if the church might need to hire more maintenance people!   

[canard78]

needed to be done . Church doesn't have enough money for janitors!

But billions for the great and spacious shopping mall and half a billion for their recent land purchase.

[Thinking]

needed to be done . Church doesn't have enough money for janitors!

This is from one of my previous posts.

 

"1,951,937 (68.36%) of Utah’s total population of 2,855,287 were members of the LDS Church in 2012. The total personal income in Utah for 2012 was $98,797,168,000. If Mormons made 68.36% of the personal income, that total would be $67.54 billion. 10% (tithing) of that total is $6.754 billion. If the critics are correct, there is only a 25% activity rate, which would reduce that total to $1.69 billion. That’s $1.69 billion in tithing just from Utah."

[sdc999]

This is from one of my previous posts.

 

"1,951,937 (68.36%) of Utah’s total population of 2,855,287 were members of the LDS Church in 2012. The total personal income in Utah for 2012 was $98,797,168,000. If Mormons made 68.36% of the personal income, that total would be $67.54 billion. 10% (tithing) of that total is $6.754 billion. If the critics are correct, there is only a 25% activity rate, which would reduce that total to $1.69 billion. That’s $1.69 billion in tithing just from Utah."

And if critics are correct, of the 25% activity rate, only a portion of those have a temple recommend.  And also, that portion probably correlates to 'full' tithe payers vs non full tithe payers.  Still an amazing amount of money switches hands.

[canard78]

And if critics are correct, of the 25% activity rate, only a portion of those have a temple recommend. And also, that portion probably correlates to 'full' tithe payers vs non full tithe payers. Still an amazing amount of money switches hands.

188,400 British LDS in 335 units donated £33,000,000 in donations last year according to the charities commission.

That's £175/head.

On the same ratio (an assumption), Utah would be generating $500,000,000/annum.

It's also worth pointing out that with £98,000/annum/unit you would need about 6-7% of donations in UK to pay for a part time cleaner (2 days/week).

If the 6-7% were going to the poor and needy I probably wouldn't mind cleaning the toilet. But tithes don't get used for welfare or humanitarian aid. It's used on marketing, publishing, property building and maintenance.

Edited November 10, 2013 by canard78

[Tacenda]

188,400 British LDS in 335 units donated £33,000,000 in donations last year according to the charities commission.

That's £175/head.

On the same ratio (an assumption), Utah would be generating $500,000,000/annum.

It's also worth pointing out that with £98,000/annum/unit you would need about 6-7% of donations in UK to pay for a part time cleaner (2 days/week).

If the 6-7% were going to the poor and needy I probably wouldn't mind cleaning the toilet. But tithes don't get used for welfare or humanitarian aid. It's used on marketing, publishing, property building and maintenance.

I was thinking just today of a way to get the money to the poor in areas of the world directly. If we each sent money to the missionaries in our ward to give to the poor in their areas. But then after I thought about it, would that send a message to beggars and such, to hound every missionary they see for money. So back to the drawing board of how do we get money to the very poor? Such a simple thing you'd think, but it's not. And wish the church would cut down on advertising and even the Mormon Message videos, and other things that may not all be necessary and figure out a way to put into action the 4th item on our mission statement in the church...take care of the poor and needy.

[Bob Crockett]

I was thinking just today of a way to get the money to the poor in areas of the world directly. If we each sent money to the missionaries in our ward to give to the poor in their areas. But then after I thought about it, would that send a message to beggars and such, to hound every missionary they see for money. So back to the drawing board of how do we get money to the very poor? Such a simple thing you'd think, but it's not. And wish the church would cut down on advertising and even the Mormon Message videos, and other things that may not all be necessary and figure out a way to put into action the 4th item on our mission statement in the church...take care of the poor and needy.

There you go!  Missionaries with money!   Now they'll really be a target for kidnapping.

[Tacenda]

There you go! Missionaries with money! Now they'll really be a target for kidnapping.

Exactly, did you see where I changed my mind the minute I said it, haha. Can you think of a way? The church is sitting in a very good place to help even more than it has and it has, I know. But like I said it's not cut and dry is it? But in the meetings held with the leaders of the church, I hope more time is spent thinking on these things verses the corporate side of the church all the time. Which I know is needed so we can help. But the unlimited money, skies the limit, to put into temples, might not be what the Lord wants. Would you want your children to build extravagant homes for you instead of taking care of the poor? I doubt it. Maybe the church could streamline, cut out waste, not go so pricey on things for the temple. It's the work that is done in there that counts, not the 2 to 3 thousand dollar vase that sits on the table. This according to a Primary Sharing Time last week in my ward, where the Primary President told of a time she worked for the church and ordered items for the temples, and this is what they spent on a vase, she was a decorator or something. But the way she explained it, it was a good thing. Plus, I use to live by an employee that worked with the building of temples and he told my husband there is no budget when it comes to temples. Edited November 10, 2013 by Tacenda

[Sleeper Cell]

But billions for the great and spacious shopping mall and half a billion for their recent land purchase.

 

 

188,400 British LDS in 335 units donated £33,000,000 in donations last year according to the charities commission.

That's £175/head.

On the same ratio (an assumption), Utah would be generating $500,000,000/annum.

It's also worth pointing out that with £98,000/annum/unit you would need about 6-7% of donations in UK to pay for a part time cleaner (2 days/week).

If the 6-7% were going to the poor and needy I probably wouldn't mind cleaning the toilet. But tithes don't get used for welfare or humanitarian aid. It's used on marketing, publishing, property building and maintenance.

 

On the other hand, there is something rather egalitarian about a multimillionaire cleaning toilets along with a brother or sister who is struggling each month to pay for basic necessities. Sort of hard to look down on others with a toilet brush in your hand. 

[Duncan]

I was thinking just today of a way to get the money to the poor in areas of the world directly. If we each sent money to the missionaries in our ward to give to the poor in their areas. But then after I thought about it, would that send a message to beggars and such, to hound every missionary they see for money. So back to the drawing board of how do we get money to the very poor? Such a simple thing you'd think, but it's not. And wish the church would cut down on advertising and even the Mormon Message videos, and other things that may not all be necessary and figure out a way to put into action the 4th item on our mission statement in the church...take care of the poor and needy.

 

 

see, this is the thing. In places like here in Canada we need to get the message out!! It would cost 400$ to buy an ad that would be seen on a major road and it could benefit the missionaries SO much but the Church won't buy it and you can't do a grassroots effort to get the money because the Church won't approve it for some bizarre reason. My heart breaks as a ward mission leader when we have 6 missionaries here who want to work but can't tract and street contacting in the cold sucks the will to live, walking around looking for people to talk to. FB isn't everywhere and churhc tours aren't really working, so what are they supposed to do? busy missionaries are happy missionaries and I just want so much for them and it seems like the Church can give it but won't for whatever reason 

[sdc999]

On the other hand, there is something rather egalitarian about a multimillionaire cleaning toilets along with a brother or sister who is struggling each month to pay for basic necessities. Sort of hard to look down on others with a toilet brush in your hand. 

This is in no way intended to be a political post, but has anyone ever seen Mitt Romney cleaning a toilet in his local ward - or his wife?  Also,  I am glad that those in his ward are respectful of his privacy not to be on the internet trying to gain their 15 minutes of fame.  But has anyone?

[Hamba Tuhan]

This is in no way intended to be a political post, but has anyone ever seen Mitt Romney cleaning a toilet in his local ward - or his wife?

 

When Mitt was my stake president, I never saw him happier than when he was 'in the trenches' of whatever service opportunity came along.

[Duncan]

This is in no way intended to be a political post, but has anyone ever seen Mitt Romney cleaning a toilet in his local ward - or his wife?  Also,  I am glad that those in his ward are respectful of his privacy not to be on the internet trying to gain their 15 minutes of fame.  But has anyone?

 

 

not sure, but I recall reading about a General Authority after he was released talk about how it was his ward's High Priest assignment to clean the conf. centre. This was after he was released!!!

[Calm]

This is in no way intended to be a political post, but has anyone ever seen Mitt Romney cleaning a toilet in his local ward - or his wife?  Also,  I am glad that those in his ward are respectful of his privacy not to be on the internet trying to gain their 15 minutes of fame.  But has anyone?

Considering what I've heard reported about him, I would be rather surprised if he hadn't (though he may be too much of a public figure to do it now because of security reasons).  I remember a report by a woman who said they were holding a meeting in her home and in order to introduce MR properly, they had him wait in the garage for a bit.  Apparently he started cleaning it while he was out there.

 

Here is a reference confirming my memory:  http://mittromneymormon.net/mormon-beliefs/mormon-beliefs-leadership