Pope Francis Said That You Don't Have To Believe In God To Get To Heaven?

[Darren10]

Responding to a list of questions published in the paper by Mr Scalfari, who is not a Roman Catholic, Francis wrote: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

 

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

 

 

Pope Francis assures sceptics: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

 

This article explains that Pope Francis emphasized that all people when they do good come closerto Christ and may find eternal redemption.

 

The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good -  is ancient. On Good Friday we all pray:

 

Let us pray also for those who do not believe in Christ,that, enlightened by the Holy Spirit,they, too, may enter on the way of salvation. Almighty ever-living God,grant to those who do not confess Christ that, by walking before you with a sincere heart, they may find the truth and that we ourselves, being constant in mutual love and striving to understand more fully the mystery of your life, may be made more perfect witnesses to your love in the world. Through Christ our Lord.

We are judged by a just God who will welcome us based on what we have done with what we knew. Those who do not know God will be judged on the good they have done and the values lived by, to paraphrase a quote oft attributed to the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius.

However, the most loving thing we can do for all men and women is recognize that they too hunger for the God who created them and then help them to find Him as He is fully and completely revealed in his Son Jesus Christ and the Church. That includes recognizing the good that they do and joining with them in the work.

These latest comments are consistent with Pope Francis' efforts to reach out to people of other faiths and of no faith at all. By emphasizing our common bonds, our Holy Father breaks down artificial barriers so that we may see, and love, one another more clearly.

 

 

Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!

 

So, we have that and just to be clear, reverend Thomas Rosica is NOT a spokesperson for the Catholic Church as news outlets have reported:

 

The Vatican has quickly clarified that atheists  - they believe - are still going to hell, despite Pope Francis appearing to say non-believers could be saved through Christ if they do good.

 

Vatican spokesman Rev. Thomas Rosica said people who know about the Catholic church “cannot be saved” if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her.”

 

 

Catholic Church confirms atheists still go to hell, after Pope Francis suggests they might go to heaven

 

With all this said, my thoughts turn to LDS doctrines of "hell". If I'm not mistaken "hell" which is Sheol in Hebrew was understood as a place where souls are temporarily held and then released for God's final judgment. Under Joseph Smith and the restored gospel, it was taught and it is understood today that the souls will be released because Christ overcame death and thus unlocked the gates of hell and allowed all persons to be resurrected. The resurrection of the body, ergo, the reunification of the body and spirit is, according to Doctrine and Covenants, a redemption of the soul. That this redemption is for all unconditionally. It is pure mercy that Jesus did this for all mankind.

 

But then there is the redemption from sin. That is, unmistakably, from the blood of the Lamb of God. Jesus Christ taught that all *must* believe in Him to be saved and under LDS theology, the gospel of Jesus Christ will be taught to all those who did not accept it in mortality. This way, literally all who have lived or are alive all will be taught about Jesus Christ and after accepting Him, how to come unto Him under covenant. As Peter declared, the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached unto those who are dead. With this understanding, all individuals, even atheists, will be taught about Jesus Christ, have a choice to receive Him as their personal Lord and Savior, and be shown how to fully and completely come unto Him through the priesthood authority.

 

I actually see lots of commonalities between what Pope Francis and Reverend Thomas Rosica said regarding "believers" and "non believers" and eternal salvation as taught by the LDS Church. What are your thoughts?

[Duncan]

everyone who lived, regardless of their belief, will be resurrected and assigned a Kingdom in Heaven, exaltation is reserved to those who accept Christ and believe his gospel

[rpn]

And it is entirely true that without the law, people cannot sin.  If you say that the law (for someone who hasn't been taught) is one's conscience, then you can't fault the Pope's analysis.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Joseph Smith said:

While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard. … He is a wise Lawgiver, and will judge all men, not according to the narrow, contracted notions of men, but, ‘according to the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil,’ or whether these deeds were done in England, America, Spain, Turkey, or India. … We need not doubt the wisdom and intelligence of the Great Jehovah; He will award judgment or mercy to all nations according to their several deserts, their means of obtaining intelligence, the laws by which they are governed, the facilities afforded them of obtaining correct information, and His inscrutable designs in relation to the human family; and when the designs of God shall be made manifest, and the curtain of futurity be withdrawn, we shall all of us eventually have to confess that the Judge of all the earth has done right. (TPJS, 218)

[Storm Rider]

I see what he taught as true doctrine; he could speak from the pulpit of any ward house and the saints would be both sportive and uphold what he said.

There is far more commonality between our faiths than what separates us.

[Ran]

Pope Francis and Rev. Rosica's words are drawn from the Catholic Church's affirmations on the salvific necessity of faith, the possibility (to be distinguished from certainty/actuality) that God leads to this faith those who are inculpably ignorant of the Gospel, the instrumentality of conscience as the proximate moral norm, and the salvific necessity of Christ and the Church—the latter, which was re-emphasized in the Declaration Dominus Iesus.

 

When these statements are read together, it's a massive oversimplification for The Independent to summarize Pope Francis's explanations as, "You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven."

[Storm Rider]

Yes, it is an over simplification, but one that does not know can be saved if they follow conscious. All are given the Light of Christ and initially know the difference between right and wrong. If they follow this Light they will not be punished for not knowing the gospel in its fullness.

[The Nehor]

I see what he taught as true doctrine; he could speak from the pulpit of any ward house and the saints would be both sportive and uphold what he said.

 

I would not sport or uphold.

 

Yes, it is an over simplification, but one that does not know can be saved if they follow conscious.

 

All you have to do is be conscious?

 

Sorry, I am not trying to pick on you. Both made me giggle.

[Storm Rider]

I would not sport or uphold.

 

 

All you have to do is be conscious?

 

Sorry, I am not trying to pick on you. Both made me giggle.

Why? We teach that all will be judged on the truths they know. Correct? We also believe that all ordinances will be completed for all. Correct? If someone has never heard of Christ and yet knows the difference between right and wrong and strives to do right, what will be his reward? We teach that he may be exalted.

[The Nehor]

Why? We teach that all will be judged on the truths they know. Correct? We also believe that all ordinances will be completed for all. Correct? If someone has never heard of Christ and yet knows the difference between right and wrong and strives to do right, what will be his reward? We teach that he may be exalted.

 

They can but only if they repent and accept the ordinances of salvation. Joseph Smith taught that no one can be saved in ignorance. Atheism, even moral atheism, is ignorance of the way things really are. Of course they can eventually be saved but this makes it sound like right now they can get in. The headlines in the OP outright suggest that atheists go to heaven. They might, but only because they stopped being atheists.

[Darren10]

And it is entirely true that without the law, people cannot sin.  If you say that the law (for someone who hasn't been taught) is one's conscience, then you can't fault the Pope's analysis.

 

True. That's another commonality I see in LDS doctrine and what Pope Francis said though with the LDS one *must* also accept Christ to be saved / exalted.

[Darren10]

everyone who lived, regardless of their belief, will be resurrected and assigned a Kingdom in Heaven, exaltation is reserved to those who accept Christ and believe his gospel

 

Yes. there is so much more in the eternities than just being "saved".

[Darren10]

I see what he taught as true doctrine; he could speak from the pulpit of any ward house and the saints would be both sportive and uphold what he said.

There is far more commonality between our faiths than what separates us.

 

Very true.

[Darren10]

Overseeking #4;

 

That was an excellent quote.

[Darren10]

Yes, it is an over simplification, but one that does not know can be saved if they follow conscious. All are given the Light of Christ and initially know the difference between right and wrong. If they follow this Light they will not be punished for not knowing the gospel in its fullness.

 

I agree. Its' just the additional knowledge of eternal salvation the restored gospel of Jesus Christ clarifies. Exaltation is man' greatest source of happiness from God's mercy and it should be the primary goal of man. In the end, Jesus Christ is an absolute essentiality to achieve the greatest amount (and any amount) of happiness for anyone.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

 

 

Sorry, I am not trying to pick on you. Both made me giggle.

 

What *doesn't* make The Nehor giggle?

[Darren10]

They can but only if they repent and accept the ordinances of salvation. Joseph Smith taught that no one can be saved in ignorance. Atheism, even moral atheism, is ignorance of the way things really are. Of course they can eventually be saved but this makes it sound like right now they can get in. The headlines in the OP outright suggest that atheists go to heaven. They might, but only because they stopped being atheists.

 

That's the way I see it.

[foster]

It is my understanding that Heaven is basically for all but a few. Exaltation is a different situation. Who would have thought the Pope would be such a great prepatory missionary for the LDS Faith.

Edited September 12, 2013 by foster

[The Nehor]

What *doesn't* make The Nehor giggle?

 

Boring sacrament meeting talks.

[why me]

I think that the problem with what the Pope said is found in whether it changes the doctrine of the catholic church. I don't believe that this is what catholic doctrine teaches. But I could be wrong. Growing up catholic I was aware of what hell was and who will go there. I do think that atheists were heading there when I was a boy. But I could be wrong about this.

[Storm Rider]

I think Vatican II clarified this point. 3DOP, is that correct?

[why me]

Here is what the catechism says:

 

Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion but the imputability of the offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and circumstances. (ccc. 2125)

 

So it seems that he may be okay, if this is interpreted in a certain way. However, it doesn't say anything about atheists but the nature of the atheism as a philosophy. Perhaps a more humanistic atheisim?

[Ran]

The Catholic Church addressed atheism in the Second Vatican Council's Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World (Gaudium et Spes)—

 

 

19. The root reason for human dignity lies in man's call to communion with God. From the very circumstance of his origin man is already invited to converse with God. For man would not exist were he not created by Gods love and constantly preserved by it; and he cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and devotes himself to His Creator. Still, many of our contemporaries have never recognized this intimate and vital link with God, or have explicitly rejected it. Thus atheism must be accounted among the most serious problems of this age, and is deserving of closer examination.

 

The word atheism is applied to phenomena which are quite distinct from one another. For while God is expressly denied by some, others believe that man can assert absolutely nothing about Him. Still others use such a method to scrutinize the question of God as to make it seem devoid of meaning. Many, unduly transgressing the limits of the positive sciences, contend that everything can be explained by this kind of scientific reasoning alone, or by contrast, they altogether disallow that there is any absolute truth. Some laud man so extravagantly that their faith in God lapses into a kind of anemia, though they seem more inclined to affirm man than to deny God. Again some form for themselves such a fallacious idea of God that when they repudiate this figment they are by no means rejecting the God of the Gospel. Some never get to the point of raising questions about God, since they seem to experience no religious stirrings nor do they see why they should trouble themselves about religion. Moreover, atheism results not rarely from a violent protest against the evil in this world, or from the absolute character with which certain human values are unduly invested, and which thereby already accords them the stature of God. Modern civilization itself often complicates the approach to God not for any essential reason but because it is so heavily engrossed in earthly affairs.

 

Undeniably, those who willfully shut out God from their hearts and try to dodge religious questions are not following the dictates of their consciences, and hence are not free of blame; yet believers themselves frequently bear some responsibility for this situation. For, taken as a whole, atheism is not a spontaneous development but stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious beliefs, and in some places against the Christian religion in particular. Hence believers can have more than a little to do with the birth of atheism. To the extent that they neglect their own training in the faith, or teach erroneous doctrine, or are deficient in their religious, moral or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than reveal the authentic face of God and religion.

 

20. Modern atheism often takes on a systematic expression which, in addition to other causes, stretches the desires for human independence to such a point that it poses difficulties against any kind of dependence on God. Those who profess atheism of this sort maintain that it gives man freedom to be an end unto himself, the sole artisan and creator of his own history. They claim that this freedom cannot be reconciled with the affirmation of a Lord Who is author and purpose of all things, or at least that this freedom makes such an affirmation altogether superfluous. Favoring this doctrine can be the sense of power which modern technical progress generates in man.

 

Not to be overlooked among the forms of modern atheism is that which anticipates the liberation of man especially through his economic and social emancipation. This form argues that by its nature religion thwarts this liberation by arousing man's hope for a deceptive future life, thereby diverting him from the constructing of the earthly city. Consequently when the proponents of this doctrine gain governmental power they vigorously fight against religion, and promote atheism by using, especially in the education of youth, those means of pressure which public power has at its disposal.

 

21. In her loyal devotion to God and men, the Church has already repudiated(16) and cannot cease repudiating, sorrowfully but as firmly as possible, those poisonous doctrines and actions which contradict reason and the common experience of humanity, and dethrone man from his native excellence.

 

Still, she strives to detect in the atheistic mind the hidden causes for the denial of God; conscious of how weighty are the questions which atheism raises, and motivated by love for all men, she believes these questions ought to be examined seriously and more profoundly.

 

The Church holds that the recognition of God is in no way hostile to man's dignity, since this dignity is rooted and perfected in God. For man was made an intelligent and free member of society by God Who created him, but even more important, he is called as a son to commune with God and share in His happiness. She further teaches that a hope related to the end of time does not diminish the importance of intervening duties but rather undergirds the acquittal of them with fresh incentives. By contrast, when a divine instruction and the hope of life eternal are wanting, man's dignity is most grievously lacerated, as current events often attest; riddles of life and death, of guilt and of grief go unsolved with the frequent result that men succumb to despair.

 

Meanwhile every man remains to himself an unsolved puzzle, however obscurely he may perceive it. For on certain occasions no one can entirely escape the kind of self-questioning mentioned earlier, especially when life's major events take place. To this questioning only God fully and most certainly provides an answer as He summons man to higher knowledge and humbler probing.

 

The remedy which must be applied to atheism, however, is to be sought in a proper presentation of the Church's teaching as well as in the integral life of the Church and her members. For it is the function of the Church, led by the Holy Spirit Who renews and purifies her ceaselessly,(17) to make God the Father and His Incarnate Son present and in a sense visible. This result is achieved chiefly by the witness of a living and mature faith, namely, one trained to see difficulties clearly and to master them. Many martyrs have given luminous witness to this faith and continue to do so. This faith needs to prove its fruitfulness by penetrating the believer's entire life, including its worldly dimensions, and by activating him toward justice and love, especially regarding the needy. What does the most reveal God's presence, however, is the brotherly charity of the faithful who are united in spirit as they work together for the faith of the Gospel(18) and who prove themselves a sign of unity.

 

While rejecting atheism, root and branch, the Church sincerely professes that all men, believers and unbelievers alike, ought to work for the rightful betterment of this world in which all alike live; such an ideal cannot be realized, however, apart from sincere and prudent dialogue. Hence the Church protests against the distinction which some state authorities make between believers and unbelievers, with prejudice to the fundamental rights of the human person. The Church calls for the active liberty of believers to build up in this world God's temple too. She courteously invites atheists to examine the Gospel of Christ with an open mind.

 

Above all the Church knows that her message is in harmony with the most secret desires of the human heart when she champions the dignity of the human vocation, restoring hope to those who have already despaired of anything higher than their present lot. Far from diminishing man, her message brings to his development light, life and freedom. Apart from this message nothing will avail to fill up the heart of man: "Thou hast made us for Thyself," O Lord, "and our hearts are restless till they rest in Thee."(19)

 

Emphasis mine.

[Darren10]

I think that the problem with what the Pope said is found in whether it changes the doctrine of the catholic church. I don't believe that this is what catholic doctrine teaches. But I could be wrong. Growing up catholic I was aware of what hell was and who will go there. I do think that atheists were heading there when I was a boy. But I could be wrong about this.

 

I'm no expert neither, but my understanding is that the Pope is not teaching anything not already canonized by the Catholic Church but this concept may be taught differently by different authorities within the Catholic Church. See Reverend Rosica's statement in response to the Pope's letter. Rosica outright eternally condemns any and all who do not join and remain in the Holy Roman Catholic Church. (Not remaining applies to you, why me ). The Pope, however, is the primary authoirty on Catholic doctrine and I think he was clarifying a teaching of the Catholic Church.

[Ran]

Rosica outright eternally condemns any and all who do not join and remain in the Holy Roman Catholic Church

 

He was, most likely, referring to this statement from the Second Vatican Council (as quoted in the Catechism)—

 

"Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."