The seven spirits of God?

[Raymond Ellis]

The seven spirits of God are mentioned in Revelation 4:5 & 5:6 -- but those are not helpful in knowing what the spirits are. Luke: 17:21 'The kingdom of God is within you.' -- The 7 spirits of God can be in your heart? 1Peter 2:5: Jesus is a living stone and we also are living stones.... What is a living stone? In John's gospel NKJV Jesus calls Simon 'Peter' which means a stone. Zechariah 3:9: upon this stone there are seven eyes -- this is the closest you will get to understanding that you can have the 7 spirits of God in your heart. Abraham 3:18-19: the spirits of God range from a low intelligence to the highest intelligence or Holy Spirit. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened, ask and you will receive.

Having the spirits of God in your life is like finding true harmony between the actions of your career or path. The spirits of God taken together form a harmonic whole that feels like the sheen of a silver pearl looks -- hence the parable of the pearl and Revelation 21:21: the twelve pearly gates.

He or she who has the 7 spirits of God in there hearts and lives, live from 500 to 900 years of age, as they did at the beginning -- this is an indication of the power of having the spirits.

[RevTestament]

Just to provide a counterpoint - The seven spirits you are discussing are the seven spirits with eyes that have seen and received the seals as they were opened by the lamb. In other words they are the spirits of seven men who have come to the earth. Your idea that they are are seven spirits of God which can live in your heart is error. The Father has one spirit. The Son has one spirit. The Holy spirit is one spirit. The stone of Zechariah is the stone of the branch. It's seven eyes are not the same as the seven eyes on the slain lamb. You are confusing symbols with little or no regard for their meaning. I am sorry, but I can't endorse that. I do not think I will say more at this time.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Raymond Ellis said:

The seven spirits of God are mentioned in Revelation 4:5 & 5:6 -- but those are not helpful in knowing what the spirits are. Luke: 17:21 'The kingdom of God is within you.' -- The 7 spirits of God can be in your heart? 1Peter 2:5: Jesus is a living stone and we also are living stones.... What is a living stone? In John's gospel NKJV Jesus calls Simon 'Peter' which means a stone. Zechariah 3:9: upon this stone there are seven eyes -- this is the closest you will get to understanding that you can have the 7 spirits of God in your heart. Abraham 3:18-19: the spirits of God range from a low intelligence to the highest intelligence or Holy Spirit. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened, ask and you will receive.

Having the spirits of God in your life is like finding true harmony between the actions of your career or path. The spirits of God taken together form a harmonic whole that feels like the sheen of a silver pearl looks -- hence the parable of the pearl and Revelation 21:21: the twelve pearly gates.

He or she who has the 7 spirits of God in there hearts and lives, live from 500 to 900 years of age, as they did at the beginning -- this is an indication of the power of having the spirits.

As soon as you live to be 500 I will listen to your absurd crazy talk. Good luck.

[Robert F. Smith]

The "seven spirits which serve God" in Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 probably need to be defined by a prophet.  However, there is no suggestion that they are in your heart or in your life.

[CV75]

5 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The "seven spirits which serve God" in Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6 probably need to be defined by a prophet.  However, there is no suggestion that they are in your heart or in your life.

Good name for my garage band, though!

I even found a cool logo for it:

[Alaris]

They are the seven archangels or seven patriarchs over the seven dispensations and each reveals the secrets of their dominion in turn after the trump of the first resurrection is sounded as foretold in D&C 88.

Zechariah 4 has language that ties these spirits to seven in Revelation 5. I'd paste them here if not for migraine. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Alaris

[RevTestament]

12 hours ago, Alaris said:

They are the seven archangels or seven patriarchs over the seven dispensations and each reveals the secrets of their dominion in turn after the trump of the first resurrection is sounded as foretold in D&C 88.

I don't know that is an accurate statement. Let us review what D&C 88 says:

108 And then shall the first angel again sound his trump in the ears of all living, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years.

109 And then shall the second angel sound his trump, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the thoughts and intents of their hearts, and the mighty works of God in the second thousand years—

110 And so on, until the seventh angel shall sound his trump; and he shall stand forth upon the land and upon the sea, and swear in the name of him who sitteth upon the throne, that there shall be time no longer; and Satan shall be bound, that old serpent, who is called the devil, and shall not be loosed for the space of a thousand years.

111 And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies.

112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.

This seems as if Michael is the 7th angel, who would reveal secrets of the Seventh seal, yet doesn't mention him with regard to the first seal or to be the first angel to "reveal the secret acts of men , and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years," which would seem to be his dispensation.

Quote

Zechariah 4 has language that ties these spirits to seven in Revelation 5. I'd paste them here if not for migraine. 

Zech 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Yeshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

This seems reminiscent of 

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Yet, this stone is not cut out in Yeshua's day. It doesn't sound like past patriarchs either.

So are those seven eyes, the seven patriarchs come back to life? Or something else? Is someone speaking for them? If someone is speaking for them, are they servants of the Lord? If they are the 7 trumpets of the seventh seal sounding, what is the stone?

The seven eyes on the stone don't seem to be quite the same as the seven eyes on the lamb of Rev 5 - at least not the seven horns - since that section seems to tie them to the seven seals. In other words the seven horns are those servants through whom the seven seals are opened - or the seven patriarchs as you term them. Perhaps the eyes are future servants, but perhaps they are the same as the horns.... something to ponder.... nevertheless it would seem the stone is not quite the same as the lamb of Rev 5.

P.S. Sorry about your headache. Hope you feel better.

[Alaris]

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I don't know that is an accurate statement. Let us review what D&C 88 says:

108 And then shall the first angel again sound his trump in the ears of all living, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years.

109 And then shall the second angel sound his trump, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the thoughts and intents of their hearts, and the mighty works of God in the second thousand years—

110 And so on, until the seventh angel shall sound his trump; and he shall stand forth upon the land and upon the sea, and swear in the name of him who sitteth upon the throne, that there shall be time no longer; and Satan shall be bound, that old serpent, who is called the devil, and shall not be loosed for the space of a thousand years.

111 And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies.

112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.

This seems as if Michael is the 7th angel, who would reveal secrets of the Seventh seal, yet doesn't mention him with regard to the first seal or to be the first angel to "reveal the secret acts of men , and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years," which would seem to be his dispensation.

P.S. Sorry about your headache. Hope you feel better.

Thank you! It devolved into a full blown migraine, but today is much better.

That is an excellent point about D&C 88; however .... *wink* .... the principle of inversion is huge in the end times. This is reflected in the symbolism of the double rainbow:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-levels-of-mankind-rainbow.html

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Zech 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Yeshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

This seems reminiscent of 

Daniel 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Yet, this stone is not cut out in Yeshua's day. It doesn't sound like past patriarchs either.

So are those seven eyes, the seven patriarchs come back to life? Or something else? Is someone speaking for them? If someone is speaking for them, are they servants of the Lord? If they are the 7 trumpets of the seventh seal sounding, what is the stone?

The seven eyes on the stone don't seem to be quite the same as the seven eyes on the lamb of Rev 5 - at least not the seven horns - since that section seems to tie them to the seven seals. In other words the seven horns are those servants through whom the seven seals are opened - or the seven patriarchs as you term them. Perhaps the eyes are future servants, but perhaps they are the same as the horns.... something to ponder.... nevertheless it would seem the stone is not quite the same as the lamb of Rev 5.

P.S. Sorry about your headache. Hope you feel better.

This is pasted from a thread on LDSFF

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

We have a huge clue in verse 4 as it obviously is a reference to Zechariah 4.

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Notice verse 10 aligns perfectly to the seven spirits who have seven horns and seven eyes.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

And we know the golden candlesticks are the seven archangels:

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So obviously John the Revelator was keyed in to Zechariah 4. The word of the Lord through His angel to His servant John to each of the seven angles over the seven churches include a promise of overcoming that align perfectly to the dispensation and dispensation patriarchs inversely. They align perfectly to the laws of the Gospel. The candlestick symbolism in Revelation and in Zechariah are not a coincidence just like John's citing Zechariah 4 in Revelation 11 is not a coincidence. I've got a full break-down in a thread on LDSFF titled "The Davidic Servant is NOT Jesus Christ." Try to pardon the hilarity of there being three threads of similar names - the only thread I created was, "The Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost."

Well - I won't link them here as I don't want to break any rules. But if you have an LDSFF account, you can just click "Latest Posts"

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Alaris

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, Alaris said:

This is pasted from a thread on LDSFF

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

We have a huge clue in verse 4 as it obviously is a reference to Zechariah 4.

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Notice verse 10 aligns perfectly to the seven spirits who have seven horns and seven eyes.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

And we know the golden candlesticks are the seven archangels:

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So obviously John the Revelator was keyed in to Zechariah 4. The word of the Lord through His angel to His servant John to each of the seven angles over the seven churches include a promise of overcoming that align perfectly to the dispensation and dispensation patriarchs inversely. They align perfectly to the laws of the Gospel. The candlestick symbolism in Revelation and in Zechariah are not a coincidence just like John's citing Zechariah 4 in Revelation 11 is not a coincidence. I've got a full break-down in a thread on LDSFF titled "The Davidic Servant is NOT Jesus Christ." Try to pardon the hilarity of there being three threads of similar names - the only thread I created was, "The Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost."

Well - I won't link them here as I don't want to break any rules. But if you have an LDSFF account, you can just click "Latest Posts"

 

I agree that the two olive branches of Zech 4 are the two witnesses of Revelation. I will also agree that the seven eyes on the stone of Zech 3 are the seven angels of the seven churches, but you seem to be skirting what I am saying about the horns of the Lamb of Rev 5. It seems apparent those seven horns are past servants who open the seven seals with the lamb. You are equating those seven eyes with future servants while at the same time saying they are the spirits with the seven horns, who are servants of past seals. My point is I don't see them as being both past and future servants.And why are there 24 elders?

[Alaris]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

I agree that the two olive branches of Zech 4 are the two witnesses of Revelation. I will also agree that the seven eyes on the stone of Zech 3 are the seven angels of the seven churches, but you seem to be skirting what I am saying about the horns of the Lamb of Rev 5. It seems apparent those seven horns are past servants who open the seven seals with the lamb. You are equating those seven eyes with future servants while at the same time saying they are the spirits with the seven horns, who are servants of past seals. My point is I don't see them as being both past and future servants.And why are there 24 elders?

I don't equate the seven eyes with future servants. They are the seven dispensation heads. Adam down through Joseph Smith.

[Alaris]

19 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I agree that the two olive branches of Zech 4 are the two witnesses of Revelation. I will also agree that the seven eyes on the stone of Zech 3 are the seven angels of the seven churches, but you seem to be skirting what I am saying about the horns of the Lamb of Rev 5. It seems apparent those seven horns are past servants who open the seven seals with the lamb. You are equating those seven eyes with future servants while at the same time saying they are the spirits with the seven horns, who are servants of past seals. My point is I don't see them as being both past and future servants.And why are there 24 elders?

Well, I didn't want you thinking I was ignoring your 24 elders question. I certainly have some thoughts on them that are not final, though there is a basis for these possibilities here that I may not be able to flesh out fully. So, forgive me if I sound confident in any of my reasoning below that doesn't seem fully qualified. I'm happy to address any follow up questions there. *big breath in* But again, I must emphasize this is a work in progress.

24 elders has always puzzled me. Why 24? There are numbers that repeat all throughout the gospel and our standard works. 3 is an important number. 7 is probably the most widely-used number. 8 may be the second most-used but no-less important number than 7. 24 .... well that's a multiple of 12 and of 6 and of 3 and of 4. 6 and 4 factor in to other important numbers as well. 6 wings of the seraphim. 4 corners of the Earth. 4 directions, etc. 3 is the Godhead, and 3 is a presidency. etc. etc.

However, here's a couple of important clues to understand where these 24 elders are on their spiritual progression.

Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Elder: From the greek word πρεσβυτέρους or presbýteros – properly, a mature man having seasoned judgment (experience); an elder.

OK a seasoned person with judgement. Not a big leap in logic here. Next clue:

Seats: derived from the Greek work thronous - This is just a bad translation in the KJV. These are thrones, not seats. Who sits upon thrones that are a multiple of 24, and again, why 24? Next clue. This one is important: Clothed in white raiment: This ties into the 5th promise of overcoming. Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. The promise is rewarded to those who overcome this level. So those who have been rewarded with the rewards of the fifth promise are now on the sixth promise themselves at the very least. There's no way avoiding an article plug here, but this is the seven levels of overcoming tied to the seven patriarchs and seven dispensations who are the seven spirits of God in Zechariah and in Revelation. Seven promises of overcoming given to the angels of the seven churches in Asia as "He that overcometh" - The eight promise is given at the end and is aligned to Christ Himself and His overcoming ... which is why that number 8 ties into renewal, rebirth, resurrection, etc. Here's my article that provides an overview of the alignment of the promises to the levels of overcoming. http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-seven-levels-of-mankind.html So the 24 elders have overcome level 5. The white raiment is easily connected to the promises given in the temple. We are ordained to become Kings and Priests in the temple - these 24 elders have their thrones and have their crowns. They are on the next level - level 6. Level six is the level of the Seraphim whose anthem and ordinance is detailed in Isaiah 6 and is repeated again in Revelation. They - not coincidentally - have 6 wings which is a symbol of their station and achievement. Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Granted, the four beasts are aligned to the six wings, but there is additional precedent to align these six wings to the 24 elders. From Isaiah 6 and the ordinance of the Seraphim: Isaiah 6:9 ¶ And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. The Lord Jesus Christ gives a vital clue when he basically tells the Apostles they are from this order, which makes sense as we LDS know that the Apostles are given the throne and crown of judgement over the 12 tribes of Israel: Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. So Isaiah is the recipient of the ordinance of the Seraphim. He is commissioned to preach to the blind, the deaf, and the hard-hearted. Jesus equates that commission to the Apostles who are blessed with the ability to "see." The Seraphic anthem, Holy, Holy, Holy is repeated in Revelation 4. The Elders are both a multiple of the six wings and the number associated with the apostles. But why 24 and not 12? Why indeed! Here's what I have so far to build off this foundation I have laid out: There are two sets of Apostles - one for each promised land. The first 3 dispensations took place in the American promised land, and the final takes place in the American. The 3rd dispensation (Noah) starts in the Americas (likely) and ends in the "old world" (irony.) The flood is a symbol of the end time judgement that separates the higher levels of mankdind from the lower as the first three dispensation represent the highest three levels of mankind. Adam is over level 7 or the archangels themselves. Enoch is the archangel over level six (confirmed in the Book of Enoch - article here) Noah is level five. These are the celestial levels of administration & dominion. The first four levels are one of personal progress. Abraham is the archangel over that upward bridge - overcome his corresponding law - The Law of Sacrifice - and you will be granted your first dominion, the implications of which are spelled out through the Abrahamic Covenant, and those on that path are born through his posterity. I am digressing a bit, but this is important to reinforce the difference between the two promised lands and why there are two jerusalems. There are also two birthright tribes - Ephraim and Judah. Ephraim is clearly tied into the Americas and Judah Jerusalem. Let's return to the 24 apostles that existed immediately after Christ's resurrection. One was made immortal in Jerusalem through the translation of John. Three were made immortal in the Americas - the Ephraimic side of the fence. Why? I don't want to open a can of worms here, but the answer to this question explains why there are two goats in Leviticus 16 who are both a part of the sin offering for Israel on the holiest holiday - Yom Kippur. A day that is as of yet unfulfilled as Christ's ministry was the fulfillment of the spring holy days. The answer to this question of why also explains why there are two lambs offered - one in the morning (spring) and one in the evening (fall) in the ordinance of Exodus 29 by which the Priests are cleansed. The answer to this question also pertains to why the Holy Ghost is prophesied to come in the flesh by Joseph Smith himself - a hidden fact that somehow seems to magically remain hidden from those who are even intimately familiar with the quote as I have been. Joseph Smith (President) But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized) Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency) Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)  As of Joseph Smith's day, the Holy Ghost was waiting to take himself a body. Let that sink in. If that takes place in our Earth, then do we expect his mortal probation to be insignificant? Or is this the second goat, and the second lamb by whom the messianic nature of the Isaiah prophecies and the nature of duality within those prophecies are a type of the duality of Christ and the Holy Ghost.  I guess I am delving into the "why 3 apostles in America and why 1 in Jerusalem" - they are a symbol of Jesus Perfection - 1 - and the station of imperfection of the Holy Ghost. Peter, James, and John are the presidency who reflects this - inversely on the other side of the world (see article on the rainbow) - but who administer to us spiritual from the other side of the veil until Christ comes ala D&C 7: D&C 7:5 I say unto thee, Peter, this was a good desire; but my beloved has desired that he might do more, or a greater work yet among men than what he has before done. 6 Yea, he has undertaken a greater work; therefore I will make him as flaming fire and a ministering angel; he shall minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation who dwell on the earth. 7 And I will make thee to minister for him and for thy brother James; and unto you three I will give this power and the keys of this ministry until I come. 8 Verily I say unto you, ye shall both have according to your desires, for ye both joy in that which ye have desired. Peter, James, and John gave keys to Joseph Smith - but D&C 7 reads like there are some keys left on that keychain. So there are two promised lands, two sets of 12 disciples and the numbers 1 and 3 as a subset of symbolism. We have a scripture above where 3 are given the keys until Christ returns. What is the power and what is the ministry? Good questions. Finally, as this is a bit overlong, I have to reference the article I wrote on the two promised lands and the significance of the bloodlines joining and the tribes being restored yet there being two jerusalems that remain - an old and a new. The American Promised Land • Adam (first dispensation over level seven) • Enoch (second dispensation over level six) • Noah (third dispensation over level five) • Joseph (seventh dispensation accompanied by level five and six) • The Melchizedek Priesthood  • Dispensations 1,2,3 and 7 all had it • The New Jerusalem – the Law • Justice • The Father • Longer Life (Joseph Smith’s dispensation will usher in again) • Increase • A land of milk and honey The Promised Land of Israel • Abraham (fourth dispensation over level four) • Moses (fifth dispensation over level three) • Peter (sixth dispensation over level two) • The Aaronic Priesthood  • Dispensation 4 was enslaved, and 5 was bound to the Levitical Priesthood. Dispensation 2 was brief and comprised of level five and six beings who were given the Melchizedek Priesthood. • Jerusalem – the Word • Mercy • The Son • Shorter life • Slavery, bondage, captivity From: http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/08/levels-numbers-orders-and-symbols.html I know this is a big bomb to drop before explaining what the 24 elders may represent, but consider the ministries and symbols of the two lambs / two goats are as inverted as the two jerusalems. One has a humble temporal ministry to save Israel spiritually. The other has an exalted temporal ministry (read: Isaiah) to save Israel temporally. One comes to save, and one comes to judge. Let's leave it at that, as there is a lot more to say, which I have said in another thread on another site here. So whether or not you consider the Holy Ghost or the Davidic Servant, suffice it to say there are two jerusalems and 24 apostles - 12 for each. That's who they are. One final, final piece here: The 24 apostles fall down and worship two lambs in Revelation:   Revelation 5: 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.   In Revelation 19 they fall down and worship the Lamb again:   Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord Godomnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Is this the same Lamb or is this another ala Exodus 29? 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. John falls down and worships the angel immediately after witnessing the marriage of the Lamb to his wife....interesting. 24 Elders ...  John worships the angel again in the last chapter. Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. John - of the first, first presidency, who walked with Christ and learned at his heal and rested his head on the bosom of the Lord ... worships an angel. Twice. Notice how the angel is referred - not as "an" angel but "his angel." This is the angel of the Lord, the one who the Lord sent before Israel out of Egypt. I'm really trying to wrap this up. Here's one more scripture: D&C 103:17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm. (Isaiah reference) 18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be. 19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence. 20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land. John witnesses the exaltation of an angel who becomes a God - an angel who becomes after the same manner of Jesus - by sitting upon the throne at the behest of he whose throne it is -  to which they aspire as demonstrated in Facsimile 3 and expounded upon by Joseph Smith. Two Lambs. Two Jerusalems. 24 Elders or Apostles or Seraphim.   *whew*

[Robert F. Smith]

Dr. Eli Lizorken-Eyzenberg of the Israel Bible Center recently wrote this:

First, the traditional interpretation connects the seven spirits in Revelation with the seven “aspects” of the Spirit in Isaiah 11:2:

The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord (NASB).

In reality there are six aspects, not seven, because the “Spirit of the Lord” is not one of the aspects. A better translation is provided by the NET Bible translators, rightly showing that each pair is really one concept. This reduces the “six” aspects to a total of three: The Lord’s spirit will rest on him – a spirit that gives extraordinary wisdom, a spirit that provides the ability to execute plans, a spirit that produces absolute loyalty to the Lord.

Second, in non-canonical Jewish books such as 1 Enoch (which has many references to the Jewish Son of Man traditions), we repeatedly encounter an otherwise unfamiliar phrase, “the Lord of the Spirits.” For example, we read in 1 Enoch 46:1-2:

There I beheld the Ancient of Days, whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of man… Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwelt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of Spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness.

This common Enochian phrase, “the Lord of the Spirits,” may be connected with, “…the seven spirits who are before his throne,” in Revelation 1:4.

As a side note, it is interesting that the technical term, “Holy Spirit,” seems to be a phrase that characterizes many (sectarian) writings found in the Dead Sea Scroll collection. The Dead Sea Scrolls predate the New Testament, where the term Holy Spirit is used both freely and generously, showing its presumed full acceptance by the first-century Jewish and Christian communities. Israel’s God and His Messiah are described in the New Testament as those who direct the Holy Spirit to do variety of things.

A third interpretive possibility, however, presents itself when we once again compare the book of Revelation to 1 Enoch. The seven spirits may also be seen as seven angelic figures who serve before the throne of God.  This is a concept found in some such Jewish extra-canonical texts. It is significant that these seven figures appear not only in 1 Enoch, but also in other Jewish books – both Biblical and para-biblical.

While we may be tempted to make too much of this connection, we must keep things in perspective. Whether or not the names of the seven key angels are Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Raquel, Remiel and Saraquel (as is stated in the book of Enoch) it is at least conceivable that first-century Jews (including John, the Jew, who authored the book of Revelation) had a similar concept in mind when he spoke of the Seven Spirits that are before the throne of God (compare Revelation 1:4-5 with 1 Enoch 20:1-8). In so doing, John may have been describing the Heavenly Court assembled and ready to act:

Israel’s God, His Anointed Messiah, and these seven powerful angelic beings were sending both a message of hope and a challenge to endure to the first century followers of Jewish Christ who were struggling under extreme pressure to find their social identity in the unapologetically and forcefully polytheistic Roman society (Rev. 1:4-5).

[Alaris]

Revelation 5:12 also lists seven blessings in addition to the seven spiritual qualities of Isaiah 11.

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.