Sexually Invasive Priesthood Interviews

[NEDRA]

I wonder whether its prudent for unrelated adult males to talk about sex with young women whom they might find attractive.

We are counseled to avoid pornography. Couldn't it be said that explicit questioning is a kind of aural pornography?

I've heard of pre-mission interviews and disciplinary courts that were explicit and titilating.

One danger in any kind of chastity questioning is the mental sexual relations that could happen. The bishop might find himself recalling and imagining sexual situations he heard about in an interview.

I know of more than one case where a single adult had a crush on a male leader not too much older, and enjoyed verbally talking about sex in the context of an interview, then they would use those conversations in not so wholesome ways later.

I think as a church we know way more about each other's sex lives. IMO the only questions that should be asked should be adultery, or breaking that covenant between spouse and god. All other confessions should be directly to God.

[Tacenda]

One of the handbooks is online now. The other, one can ask the bishop to view. Thereis no policy against allowing members to do so.

CFR

[Calm]

https://www.lds.org/manual/handbook

As far as the other...someone else will have tp provide something more official, I can only state I have never been turned down when asking, have heard of a number of members asking who haven't been turned down and when I read the CHI 1 cover to cover, don't remember any such restriction in it.

[Palerider]

 

I wonder whether its prudent for unrelated adult males to talk about sex with young women whom they might find attractive.

We are counseled to avoid pornography. Couldn't it be said that explicit questioning is a kind of aural pornography?

I've heard of pre-mission interviews and disciplinary courts that were explicit and titilating.

One danger in any kind of chastity questioning is the mental sexual relations that could happen. The bishop might find himself recalling and imagining sexual situations he heard about in an interview.

I know of more than one case where a single adult had a crush on a male leader not too much older, and enjoyed verbally talking about sex in the context of an interview, then they would use those conversations in not so wholesome ways later.

I think as a church we know way more about each other's sex lives. IMO the only questions that should be asked should be adultery, or breaking that covenant between spouse and god. All other confessions should be directly to God.

 

Just my opinion, but I think this is at least part of the reason leadership was told a number of years ago, to stick fairly close to the questions as they are layed out in the temple recommend interview handbook. Questions should be phrased to give opportunity to confess sin, not illicit blow by blow details. (If you're going to engage in a confessional at all)

[CV75]

http://www.dovesandserpents.org/wp/2013/08/this-must-stop-a-call-to-end-sexually-invasive-interviews-between-priesthood-leaders-and-minors-in-the-lds-church/

This article and comments on this have noted inappropriate sexual questioning during worthiness interviews. This author calls for the end of one on one interviews with youth.

I have many mixed thoughts especially since I have personally experienced blatant inappropriateness.

I think the best checks-and-balances to prevent this sort of thing is to teach children to discuss anything they are uncomfortable with with a trusted adult, and to let the adults know this is one way in which we will teach the young to have faith in their parents, leaders and God.

[The Nehor]

Lastly, this author seems to have been an incredibly tender, sensitive individual. From a single interview, I am led to believe that it was so traumatic that it was "one from which I have largely healed, thanks to excellent counseling and by the grace of God".  A single interview that talked about personal worthiness, sexual sin. Of all the television, movies, books, magazine articles, high school, college, experiences the one thing that left this individual so broken was an interview with his bishop. Maybe my skin is a bit thicker than most, but this comes across as gross exaggeration with an attempt to aggrandize a personal soap box. In our home as a boy, my brother would have said,  "somebody smack the guy, please" or "would you just pull your silly head out!"

 

This.

 

I honestly do not understand how people like this can function in day to day life if they can obsess at that level about one incident.

 

GET MEDS!!!!!!

[Palerider]

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/handbook

As far as the other...someone else will have tp provide something more official, I can only state I have never been turned down when asking, have heard of a number of members asking who haven't been turned down and when I read the CHI 1 cover to cover, don't remember any such restriction in it.

 

On a related matter, Calmoriah, I don't recall the interview questions being listed in either handbook. If memory serves they were listed in a small, separate "Temple Recommend handbook" which is not for public consumption. Do you know if things have changed? It's been a number of years since I was in that position.

[Calm]

This.

 

I honestly do not understand how people like this can function in day to day life if they can obsess at that level about one incident.

 

GET MEDS!!!!!!

Meds would only mask the problem...therapy dealing with perception issues would be more effective.

[Calm]

On a related matter, Calmoriah, I don't recall the interview questions being listed in either handbook. If memory serves they were listed in a small, separate "Temple Recommend handbook" which is not for public consumption. Do you know if things have changed? It's been a number of years since I was in that position.

Been too long since I've read H1, someone else will need to answer. I would not be surprised. It would be more convenient for referencing during interviews for newbies. I have heard the questions given by those in possession of the official handbook often enough I have doubts about any limitation on asking about them outside of he interviews...though that is probably not what you were I implying.

It is published hat the questions are the same for everyone, so if you have a leader who goes off script members should feel comfortable enough to why:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/08/being-worthy-to-enter-the-temple?lang=eng

Edited August 25, 2013 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

Meds would only mask the problem...therapy dealing with perception issues would be more effective.

 

I meant get whatever help is needed and "Get meds" sounded like the most humorous way of doing so.

[Calm]

On a related matter, Calmoriah, I don't recall the interview questions being listed in either handbook. If memory serves they were listed in a small, separate "Temple Recommend handbook" which is not for public consumption. Do you know if things have changed? It's been a number of years since I was in that position.

Found this:

http://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11354

[Calm]

It is published hat the questions are the same for everyone, so if you have a leader who goes off script members should feel comfortable enough to why:https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/08/being-worthy-to-enter-the-temple?lang=eng

Also this:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=150&sourceId=0d1c97a7c1d20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD

[Tacenda]

Also this:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=150&sourceId=0d1c97a7c1d20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD

Why doesn't it list the questions? I read through the lesson and didn't see anything.

[Calm]

I would assume that is so as to avoid any misunderstandings in the future if they are changed. There are lessons and articles that go over every topic discussed as well as these occasions where they say use the actual questions so it is not as if they were trying to hide things.

[why me]

This can be solved rather easily. Just ask: do you believe yourself to be morally clean? If yes, move on. If no, then just say: Until you feel yourself morally clean, I .....

 

Problem solved. Any bishop who asks personally questions will be finding himself in a difficult situation.

[rpn]

I have trouble believing that very many bishops or counselors are asking inappropriate things.  It seems so unlikely that they would be doing so in a purely voluntary position which they didn't seek and which is overwhelming.    And then I have a lot of trouble that the young people do not feel comfortable objecting, leaving in the middle of the interview and immediately telling their parents, and then going up the chain of command until the issue is resolved. (What I mean is what can must we do to strengthen young people and to help them get testimonies of the gospel without giving diety status to leaders?)    While all of the reports are anecdotal and anonymous, there could be some fire?  And any fire has to be eliminated.   Why don't bishops tell youngsters to go home and ask their parents about human sexuality?  One story said that a bishop asked if they'd ever O'd and I cannot think of a single reason why that would have any relevance to a repentance process. 

 

The trouble may actually originate when parents force their children to talk to the bishop because the parents suspect or know of sin.   Confession is valuable in repentance, only when it is voluntary.    Bottom line is that parents need to be talking with our children about the repentance process, and about the difference between uncomfortableness because of sin, and uncomfortableness because of abuse.   And they should be explaining the questions so their kiddos can answer yes or no as adults do.   And kiddos need to know that if at any time they feel uncomfortable they can leave and tell their parents who will help them process what happened and if something wrong has occurred will help get it fixed.

 

It would violate the young person's right to ecclesiastical shepherding (not to mention their confidentiality) to require his parents or any third party without the bishop's mantle be in an interview.  The child is the only one who has the right to waive the confidentiality of the confessional.

Edited August 25, 2013 by rpn

[TAO]

It is my understanding that the M word is not discussed at all I the church handbook.

 

It is hinted at in the Young Men's Handbook though.

[TAO]

I think as a church we know way more about each other's sex lives. IMO the only questions that should be asked should be adultery, or breaking that covenant between spouse and god. All other confessions should be directly to God.

 

Mmm... why do you think ARP was formed?

It's because addictive things are difficult to overcome.  A lot of sexual things are very addictive.  You cannot just turn your back on them usually.  And even if you can, it seems to burden you evermore.

 

And, I can assure you, the Bishop's help oftentimes is very useful in overcoming sexual sins, and in learning to forgive yourself.

Edited August 25, 2013 by TAO

[slamarwi]

In the current climate of litigation, political correctness, civil rights and widespread sexual abuse (especially within various clergy and the BSA) it would seem inappropriate that a Bishop and/or his counselors should conduct interviews with youth (or anyone for that matter) on a one on one basis. I believe this change will take place soon. Much like what has been done with the team teaching concept for men when instructing the youth in Primary and Sunday School. Whether we think it good or bad, the risks are becoming to great. The end of one on one meetings is likely nigh at hand.

[MorningStar]

This is quite the dilemma because I would never want either one of my parents in the room with me or YW leader or any other leader.  I also don't want to be asked unnecessary probing questions.  What I would like is a set of guidelines and examples of appropriate questions so the youth will know when a line has been crossed rather than the Bishop just trying to determine the severity of their actions.  We need to be able to say, "Hey, I read this pamphlet and that was going too far."

[Kenngo1969]

In the current climate of litigation, political correctness, civil rights and widespread sexual abuse (especially within various clergy and the BSA) it would seem inappropriate that a Bishop and/or his counselors should conduct interviews with youth (or anyone for that matter) on a one on one basis. I believe this change will take place soon. Much like what has been done with the team teaching concept for men when instructing the youth in Primary and Sunday School. Whether we think it good or bad, the risks are becoming to great. The end of one on one meetings is likely nigh at hand.

(Full disclosure up front: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.  It's but one man's opinion in a sea of opinions.)  That prospect, while I'm sure it is/will be advanced by well-meaning people, could actually create more problems than it solves.  If a minor were to confess delinquent conduct (that is, conduct that would be a crime if it had been committed by an adult), while the priest-penitent privilege otherwise might apply (there are exceptions, such as child abuse), the presence of a third party might defeat the privilege.

[cinepro]

Stuff like this makes me grateful for the problems (and experiences) I haven't had. 

 

I do distinctly remember my baptismal interview though.  I had recently watched a kid's science show on TV (3-2-1- Contact), and there was a sequence where they made ice, and ended by one character offering the other some iced tea.  The character said "I love iced tea in the summer.  It's delicious!" 

 

So my mom is sitting there with me in the interview, and the Bishop asks about the Word of Wisdom and says it's about coffee and tea, and I say "I love iced tea in the summer.  It's delicious!" because it's the first thing that comes to mind.  I didn't even know what it was.  My mom and the Bishop looked very startled, and my mom looks puzzled and says "You've never had iced tea!".

 

I guess the Bishop believed her, because the baptism went ahead as planned.

[slamarwi]

(Full disclosure up front: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.  It's but one man's opinion in a sea of opinions.)  That prospect, while I'm sure it is/will be advanced by well-meaning people, could actually create more problems than it solves.  If a minor were to confess delinquent conduct (that is, conduct that would be a crime if it had been committed by an adult), while the priest-penitent privilege otherwise might apply (there are exceptions, such as child abuse), the presence of a third party might defeat the privilege.

I whole heartedly agree. And as MorningStar stated this is "quite a dilemma." I grew up in the 60's and 70's and the M question as well as others were not out of bounds, and most of us didn't give it a second thought. However, in this unfortunate age of walking on verbal eggshells, it would seem that the PC thing to do (which I despise) would be interview/confession by committee. 

[Buzzard]

http://www.dovesandserpents.org/wp/2013/08/this-must-stop-a-call-to-end-sexually-invasive-interviews-between-priesthood-leaders-and-minors-in-the-lds-church/

This article and comments on this have noted inappropriate sexual questioning during worthiness interviews. This author calls for the end of one on one interviews with youth.

I have many mixed thoughts especially since I have personally experienced blatant inappropriateness.

 

I don't follow nor have I read other entries in this blog, just the one you linked to. So at the risk of coming off like an idiot (a common occurence, I am afraid), I am going to postulate that the author is niether uber-sensitive, not traumatized by this experience long ago. She is merely another dissenter, fully or partially, who has concoted an agenda based on some past insult, and is trying to use it to club the church about the ears.

 

[LordUther]

I was asked about the 'm' word at every priesthood graduation interview, by every bishop I had, and my temple recommend interviews, and the only time I found it shocking was my interview to become a deacon...

 

Do you keep the law of chastity?

 

Yes

 

Do you 'M'?

 

No

 

Do you know what 'M' is?

 

No

 

*Bishops sits looking thoughtful with furrowed brows for a few minutes*

 

Have you heard your school friends talk about 'W"?

 

*in shocked voice* Yes

 

Do you know what that is?

 

Yes *still in shock*

 

Do you do that?

 

NO!!!!

 

It took me years to get over that my Bishop had sworn in my interview, and on a Sunday & in church!! 

Edited August 26, 2013 by LordUther