The Lady Of The Temple: Examining The Divine Feminine In The Judeo-Christian Tradition (Conference)

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Great line-up for what promises to be a fascinating conference at Utah State on October 23! Full details here.

If anyone is able to make it, pleasepleaseprettyplease take videos or audio or something to put online for those of us who won't be able to attend. Thenkyew.

[Ron Beron]

Great line-up for what promises to be a fascinating conference at Utah State on October 23! Full details here.

If anyone is able to make it, pleasepleaseprettyplease take videos or audio or something to put online for those of us who won't be able to attend. Thenkyew.

Sounds great. Another reason to move to Utah.

[USU78]

GOAGS! Dever and Barker. Imagine.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

So did anyone manage to make it to this? And if no one recorded anything for me, may I ask how you could show such callous cruelty to my poor pitiful heart? 

[EllenMaksoud]

Great line-up for what promises to be a fascinating conference at Utah State on October 23! Full details here.

If anyone is able to make it, pleasepleaseprettyplease take videos or audio or something to put online for those of us who won't be able to attend. Thenkyew.

It is not my intention to hijack this thread at all, but I just wanted to mention that I have never heard the mention of God having a wife outside LDS circles. I am aware that certain key figures in creation outside Christian circles are mentioned, for example Gaia has often been mentioned in Eastern based stories and cartoons. I have always personally felt that God as a total male was misogynistic. I wish I could hear these speakers. Do you think they will get on Youtube?.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I hope so!

Once, when I was walking through my university's cafeteria, I was approached by a female Evangelist who appeared to be trying to get all the Women's Studies majors interested in God by talking about the Divine Feminine. She offered me a little pamphlet and asked if I "knew we had a Mother in Heaven." I was a little surprised at the question, and gave an enthusiastic "Yep!" and she seemed surprised at that. Then she got this disappointed and slightly annoyed look, and sort of dismissively said I must be Mormon. Apparently she was from a more Protestant background, and was using the Divine Feminine imagery as a metaphor for the usual disembodied God, whereas we LDS are primitive and unsophisticated literalists for believing in an actual woman. *laugh*

 

I noticed that in the Archeology and Yahweh's Wife thread in the In The News folder you mentioned you were a newcomer and interested in the previous debates we've had here on the subject - I make myself annoying 'round these parts by being a pretty constant advocate in favor of incorporating some aspects of pre-exilic religion back into our own as part of our understanding of the Restoration. 

For instance, in this old post, I tried to get a source page going so resources are more convenient to be passed around. Here's the index again, and I also encourage folks to link to these sources (and add to them!) when the usual questions bubble up from the bloggospherical archipelago and people start claiming that we don't know much about Heavenly Mother simply because they haven't read any of these:

A Mother There: A Survey Of Historical Teachings About Mother In Heaven by David L. Paulsen and Martin Pulido
The Other Half of Heaven: Debunking Myths about Heavenly Mother by Warren Aston
Nephi And His Asherah by Daniel C. Peterson
Where Shall Wisdom Be Found? by Margaret Barker
What Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker (presented at BYU)
The Images Of Mary In The Litany Of Loreto by Margaret Barker
Nephite Feminism Revisited by Shauna and Kevin Christensen
Kevin Christensen On The Scholarship Of Margaret Barker
Does God Have A Wife? by Alyson Skabelund Von Feldt
The Assyrian Tree Of Life: Tracing The Origins Of Jewish Monotheism And Greek Philosophy by Simo Parpola
Shadday As A Goddess Epithet [For Asherah] by Harriet Lutzky
How To Worship Our Mother In Heaven (Without Getting Excommunicated) by Kevin L. Barney
Asherah, The Tree Of Life, And The Menorah: Continuity Of A Goddess Symbol In Judaism? by Asphodel P. Long
The Deseret Connection by Hugh W. Nibley (plus a whole bunch of stuff from his last -- amazing -- book One Eternal Round)
The Sacred Tree Of The Ancient Maya by Allen J. Christensen
Did God Have A Wife? by William G. Dever
The Hebrew Goddess by Raphael Patai
The Mother of the Lord Volume One: The Lady In The Temple by Margaret Barker
The Chalice and the Blade by Riane Eisler (an uneven book, which I recommend primarily -- for the purposes of this discussion, anyway -- for her views on the Holy Spirit of Wisdom.)
The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images by Marija Gimbutas (a much-maligned book that still has some useful bits)
The White Goddess by Robert Graves (an even more-maligned book, but hey, Nibley cites him so he can't be all bad, right?)
The Myth of the Goddess: Evolution of an Image by Jules Cashford

Feminine Features In The Imagery Of God In Israel: The Sacred Marriage And The Sacred Tree by Moshe Weinfeld

The point is not that these sources have all the answers (they contradict each other in places, for one thing). The point is that if one works through them, then we can start to have a more informed discussion, instead of relying on the supposed argument from silence that surrounds this topic. We don't have to just throw our hands in the air and say that we just don't know anything; think of reading as a treasure hunt, and we'll start getting somewhere! There is still a lot we don't know, but people have done excellent work, if we're willing to take the time to search for it. I think this currently-downplayed aspect of the Restoration holds much promise for good fruit to blossom in the future. While we are often strangely reticent about the topic, I consider the teaching of the existence of Goddesses right alongside Gods to be one of the most important aspects of the Restoration Joseph Smith organized. 

Nibley got the ball rolling with the Lady in the Garden sections of Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri and the Deseret Connection in Abraham in Egypt, but there's still work to be done. I apologize to anyone who's annoyed by this hobby-horse of mine, but with all the archaeological stuff coming out these days I just find it really exciting, and I think it's going to be a really fruitful avenue for Mormon scholars to pursue in the future. 

Edited October 24, 2013 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[volgadon]

It is not my intention to hijack this thread at all, but I just wanted to mention that I have never heard the mention of God having a wife outside LDS circles. I am aware that certain key figures in creation outside Christian circles are mentioned, for example Gaia has often been mentioned in Eastern based stories and cartoons. I have always personally felt that God as a total male was misogynistic. I wish I could hear these speakers. Do you think they will get on Youtube?.

 

I was there, and I'm pretty sure that the papers were recorded.

[volgadon]

Jeremy, add this to your list. http://www.ma.huji.ac.il/~kazhdan/Shneider/EarlyMyst2008/Weinfeld.pdf

[volgadon]

So did anyone manage to make it to this? And if no one recorded anything for me, may I ask how you could show such callous cruelty to my poor pitiful heart? 

 

 

I made it. Dever absolutely rocked, .

 

You were even mentioned in casual conversation as one smart cookie.

[Calm]

You were even mentioned in casual conversation as one smart cookie.

Ahh.....

Are you blushing, Jeremy?

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I am! I'm just hoping the name-dropping wasn't in an ironic tone.

 

Thanks for the paper, V - on the list it goes! 

Edited October 24, 2013 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Kevin Christensen]

I was planning on being there, however, my daughter's baby girl delayed her arrival by 10 days, which happened to be the day of the conference.  So my presence was required in Pittsburgh.  (She is beautiful and precious).  They printed up the goings on of last year's conference, and I expect they will do the same this time.  Getting Dever and Barker together strikes me as a brilliant idea and an important event.  I'd actually been asked if I was willing to speak (which my grandaughter's arrival date shows would not have worked out), but when Dever not only said yes, but seemed enthusiastic, I got bumped as more than expendable.

 

And yes, Jeremy is a very smart cookie.

 

IMHO

 

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Dude, congratulations on the new addition to the familia!  

[J Green]

I made it. Dever absolutely rocked, .

 

You were even mentioned in casual conversation as one smart cookie.

 

I was there also with my Dad. I'm disappointed that I didn't have the chance to have lunch with you and meet in person. I know my Dad would have loved to talk to you, as he was the director of the Jerusalem Center as well as District President there for a while.

 

Dever's delivery was absolutely hysterical. He displays a Canaanite goddess on a PowerPoint slide and says, "This is a naked woman, if my memory serves me." His enthusiasm and energy were contagious, even at 80-something.

[juliann]

I was there, I wish I had known who else was.   It was outstanding.  I think this is going to be a more fruitful approach to solving women's issues within the church than merely giving women the priesthood.   These presenters create a way to view the sidelining of women as a need for a restoration rather than what too often looks like a "hostile takeover".   Barker also uses "nurturing" as an attribute of a divine woman but the wisdom texts (canonical and extracanonical) provide a much more expansive view.  I think the church, in its desire to protect the family, has made a woman's world smaller and more inward.  But turning to these texts makes it more outward and majestic.  Valerie Hudson concluded with an appeal for the young women she taught at BYU for so long and their hunger for more...and how we were going to lose them because they don't know who they are because of the emphasis on the male in our church.  I talked to Dever afterwards, he was very moved by it...he also expressed surprise in his presentation that Mormons disagreed with each other and what he had heard coming from the women. 

[J Green]

juliann,

I saw you during a break and thought of introducing myself. But then I worried that not having interacted much here you would have had that blank stare look of "who are you again?" Oh well. My loss.

I thought Valerie's point about role models was powerful and moving. My Dad and I talked about that and other things non-stop during the two-hour ride back. We normally don't talk that intensely in two months. (Now we probably won't for six!) Something good must have happened.

Cheers

[juliann]

juliann,

I saw you during a break and thought of introducing myself. But then I worried that not having interacted much here you would have had that blank stare look of "who are you again?" Oh well. My loss.

I thought Valerie's point about role models was powerful and moving. My Dad and I talked about that and other things non-stop during the two-hour ride back. We normally don't talk that intensely in two months. (Now we probably won't for six!) Something good must have happened.

Cheers

 

I only wonder who I am looking at when I'm in front of a mirror, JG.  

 

What stood out to you and your dad?   I particularly loved Alyson's addition of other women in the big picture.  It was startling to realize that we are still so limited in our thinking when it comes to women that we have only focused on Heavenly Mother.

[J Green]

I simply loved how Valerie asked us to look at Eve as the example of the Divine Feminine as opposed to simply looking to the Wisdom passages. That was fresh and innovative, especially given her context of what is essentially an LDS temple perspective on Eve's role in kick-starting mortality.

I also loved the implication (not necessarily overtly stated) that to really see the Divine Feminine for ourselves, we just have to look beside us in the temple to our spouse. After all, this is the Goddess Mother in training. I like that.

When Margaret connected the alma of Isaiah 9 to both Melchizedek and to growing trees, I immediately thought that it is interesting that it is in the book of someone called alma that we see both Melchizedek (13) and growing trees (5, 7, 32, etc.) figured prominently.

I tried to get Dad to re-write the Jerusalem Center field trip study guide based on Dever's presentation. He just shook his head and laughed.

Great stuff.

[volgadon]

I tried to get Dad to re-write the Jerusalem Center field trip study guide based on Dever's presentation.

 

 

That things is practically begging for a rewrite.

[volgadon]

I was there also with my Dad. I'm disappointed that I didn't have the chance to have lunch with you and meet in person. I know my Dad would have loved to talk to you, as he was the director of the Jerusalem Center as well as District President there for a while.

 

Dever's delivery was absolutely hysterical. He displays a Canaanite goddess on a PowerPoint slide and says, "This is a naked woman, if my memory serves me." His enthusiasm and energy were contagious, even at 80-something.

 

I wish I had known! Drop a line if you are up here again. Also, what year was your dad director, was it the late 90s?

[J Green]

He taught for a year starting in 99. He then was the director from 2000 - 2002, if I remember right. Shutting it down after the second intifada. He was there teaching several other times. The first time was in 1989 - 1990. I was on a mission by then, but my younger sister attended an Ulpan.

[volgadon]

He taught for a year starting in 99. He then was the director from 2000 - 2002, if I remember right. Shutting it down after the second intifada. He was there teaching several other times. The first time was in 1989 - 1990. I was on a mission by then, but my younger sister attended an Ulpan.

 

Ok, I remember now.  

[Robert F. Smith]

During the final panel Q&A, someone submitted a written question suggesting that the typical temple plan (perhaps Solomonic) could reinforce the notion mentioned by a speaker that the Holy of Holies was considered to be the womb of the Lady of the Temple (Hebrew rehem "womb"; rahamim "compassion") -- the question suggested that the temple structure was analogous to female sex organs. Margaret Barker replied that Melchizedek is begotten from the womb/Holy of Holies, and that the metaphor can be taken much further.

 

Similarly, in 1987, Val Larsen (then an instructor in the English Department at Virginia Tech) applied Freudian literary criticism to the Book of Mormon in order to elicit parallels between King Noah and King Benjamin in the book of Mosiah.  Among the numerous similarities and contrasts listed by Larsen (as by Gordon Thomasson before him), he also took note of possible sexual imagery, the towers (and Gideon's sword) being phallic, the tents (with slitted doors and families inside) representing the female genitalia and womb -- into which Benjamin's word (cf. Alma 32 "word"/"seed") is implanted -- the people falling to the earth and rising reborn (spiritually begotten) and renamed in the midst of symbols designed by Mormon (as editor) to honor the highest form of physical love and intimacy (procreative and selfless), characterized by Benjamin, and set by Mormon over against the lowest form of love (promiscuous, sterile, dominating, and selfish), characterized by Noah.  I don't know whether Larsen published that or similar literary analyses  -- showing the Book of Mormon to be pregnant with meaning -- but one can hope.

See Val Larsen, "The Benjamin/Noah Nexus: The Little Appreciated Literary Devices the Nephites Used to Communicate Their Messages," paper delivered at the Sunstone East Symposium, May 16, 1987, in Bethesda, Maryland.

[Calm]

During the final panel Q&A, someone submitted a written question suggesting that the typical temple plan (perhaps Solomonic) could reinforce the notion mentioned by a speaker that the Holy of Holies was considered to be the womb of the Lady of the Temple (Hebrew rehem "womb"; rahamim "compassion") -- the question suggested that the temple structure was analogous to female sex organs....

 

Among the numerous similarities and contrasts listed by Larsen (as by Gordon Thomasson before him), he also took note of possible sexual imagery, the towers (and Gideon's sword) being phallic, the tents (with slitted doors and families inside) representing the female genitalia and womb....

Now that could make for a very interesting Sunday School class...especially for the youth Gospel Doctrine.

[J Green]

There might be a few pregnant pauses. Conceptually speaking.