Intolerance Of Hate Speech

[EllenMaksoud]

So, this has been quite the afternoon. So, what should I do as a faithful Mormon when people speak to me about how much they hate Obama, or how untrue the BoM is, or how much they hate gays?

I'm actually pretty peaceful and seek to be loving and sweet to everyone. So, how is it that some of the "faithful" feel free to engage in all sorts of repugnant talk? I am absolutely imperfect and having come out of a hate filled environment, when it comes from Mormons and people who say they are Christian, it just makes me ill and very disappointed.

I am actually more fearful of the out in the open haters than the terrorists.

[3DOP]

Maybe you misunderstand them. If confessing Christians explicitly say that they "hate" gays and Obama you should ask them twice if you are understanding them correctly. I want gays and Obama to go to heaven. I don't hate them but I disagree emphatically with some of the things they profess and do. It may be that you are confusing agenda disagreement with vicious malice. I know, ask them if they hope Obama or gays go to Hell. If they admit to that, then you will know that you have haters. I really doubt if your fellow Mormons are hating like that.

[Tacenda]

I feel the same way, I'm probably not well read enough to know, but keep waiting for the evidence of the things all my LDS friends and family are saying about Obama and how he's so terrible for our country, I see it nearly everyday on FB or eleswhere. But do agree with 3DOP, I doubt they hate him, just don't like his views and how he's handling things right now.

[MormonMason]

I feel the same way, I'm probably not well read enough to know, but keep waiting for the evidence of the things all my LDS friends and family are saying about Obama and how he's so terrible for our country, I see it nearly everyday on FB or eleswhere. But do agree with 3DOP, I doubt they hate him, just don't like his views and how he's handling things right now.

I do not want to turn this thread into politics, but you really need to read line by line the pieces of legislation Obama and the Senate are trying to pass, and see what each piece of legislation will do to existing laws, you will begin to understand why more and more people are coming to feel as they do. Most people don't read beyond the summaries or what they hear from the Media, so they never really know what is going on.

Anyway, back to the subject of hateful and unkind words. Not so much something we should be doing. We should instead be praying for the President of the United States that God will somehow lead him to do what is right for America. We should be instead spending our energies preparing for that which is to come. Let the details come as they may. Thing is, God is allowing what is happening to happen as a wake up call. How many of us will heed the call when we spend our time speaking evil of others?

[Stargazer]

Maybe you misunderstand them. If confessing Christians explicitly say that they "hate" gays and Obama you should ask them twice if you are understanding them correctly. I want gays and Obama to go to heaven. I don't hate them but I disagree emphatically with some of the things they profess and do. It may be that you are confusing agenda disagreement with vicious malice. I know, ask them if they hope Obama or gays go to Hell. If they admit to that, then you will know that you have haters.

Agreed.

I really doubt if your fellow Mormons are hating like that.

I don't think Ellen is talking about members of the LDS church saying they hate Obama or gays, just some others.

As you, I don't necessarily agree with Obama's policies, but I could never make myself hate him, or any group of people like gays. In fact, I love Obama. And he's the best president we've had since 2009, no doubt about it!

[Storm Rider]

There are many topics that are very difficult to discuss and often we don't explain ourselves well. We also, on an individual basis, confuse things. For example, I recently made an edit in the BSA thread and afterward was uncomfortable with what I stated because it was the wrong context and the wrong thread for the comment. If a nation seeks to govern the civil unions of its citizens then I see no problem with who is acknowledge as a civil union regardless of the gender of the parties involved. It is a political decision that is associated with everything from insurance, acknowledgement of family members, to pension fund rights. Marriage is a religious rite and government has no business or right to regulate religious rites; there are no exceptions. It is perfectly legitimate for organizations to maintain certain requirements for membership. It is not acceptable for individuals to demand that all organizations should not have requirements of any kind in order that they can become a member if their behavior, actions, choices, etc. are not acceptable to the organization. In other words, it is perfectly legitimate for organizations to have limits and requirements. I know this is a bit of a rant and off topic. I am fearful that we become so politically correct that we lose the ability to identify what is unacceptable, what is wrong, or what is perverted. Hate speech is one thing, but it depends if we are talking about the individual or the behavior. Behaviors can and should be identified as acceptable or unacceptable. We need to be much more careful, concise, and clear when we are talking about behaviors and when we are talking about an individual.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

So, this has been quite the afternoon. So, what should I do as a faithful Mormon when people speak to me about how much they hate Obama, or how untrue the BoM is, or how much they hate gays?

I'm actually pretty peaceful and seek to be loving and sweet to everyone. So, how is it that some of the "faithful" feel free to engage in all sorts of repugnant talk? I am absolutely imperfect and having come out of a hate filled environment, when it comes from Mormons and people who say they are Christian, it just makes me ill and very disappointed.

I am actually more fearful of the out in the open haters than the terrorists.

Realize that Mormons are flawed like any other. And disregard their hate...I don't care for our President, but it only extends to his policies, nothing else. I know a member who called him something very unbecoming...I told him that if this was how he was going to talk to me...don't talk to me again, and he did not ever speak to me again. When my Bishop thought what he said was funny, I told him off.

[thesometimesaint]

It's fine to disagree with another's argument. It is not fine to become disagreeable towards that person.

I'll defend to the death your right to hold any silly opinion you want, as long as you allow me my right to hold any silly opinion I want.

[BlueDreams]

So, this has been quite the afternoon. So, what should I do as a faithful Mormon when people speak to me about how much they hate Obama, or how untrue the BoM is, or how much they hate gays?

I'm actually pretty peaceful and seek to be loving and sweet to everyone. So, how is it that some of the "faithful" feel free to engage in all sorts of repugnant talk? I am absolutely imperfect and having come out of a hate filled environment, when it comes from Mormons and people who say they are Christian, it just makes me ill and very disappointed.

I am actually more fearful of the out in the open haters than the terrorists.

Don't be afraid and correct them when possible. There's often gentle ways of doing it, so that it doesn't come off as harsh but reminds them to be temperate. For the ones that are just whining about this or that politically, I kinda just ignore them unless it's something that they're directly engaging in, or it's outright false/inflammatory. Most people know who I voted for and it wasn't Romney. But most the time I don't notice much....they're just griping about politics usually. who doesn't?

For those that say poor things about gay people, it's a lot easier. "Hey that's inappropriate, they're God's children too" would work just fine. I don't see this as much among the college aged, younger generation (in which I live with) so it's not a problem for the most part. But they can't really argue with that.

As for the book of mormon is untrue....from my mission: Ask them if they read it. If no, tell them you have and know that it is true. If they say they have, tell them you have as well and that it's strengthened your faith in Christ and made you a better person. Once I just stared at a person who said he heard the book was boring....I have an awesome stare. He soon looked down in shame. Not one word spoken. Bear testimony and leave it at that.

But in general: don't fear....fear is trapping IMHO. You walk with certainty of what you do know and gently bring about change, perspective, and faith when you can.

With luv,

BD

Edited May 27, 2013 by BlueDreams

[EllenMaksoud]

Don't be afraid and correct them when possible. There's often gentle ways of doing it, so that it doesn't come off as harsh but reminds them to be temperate. For the ones that are just whining about this or that politically, I kinda just ignore them unless it's something that they're directly engaging in, or it's outright false/inflammatory. Most people know who I voted for and it wasn't Romney. But most the time I don't notice much....they're just griping about politics usually. who doesn't?

For those that say poor things about gay people, it's a lot easier. "Hey that's inappropriate, they're God's children too" would work just fine. I don't see this as much among the college aged, younger generation (in which I live with) so it's not a problem for the most part. But they can't really argue with that.

As for the book of mormon is untrue....from my mission: Ask them if they read it. If no, tell them you have and know that it is true. If they say they have, tell them you have as well and that it's strengthened your faith in Christ and made you a better person. Once I just stared at a person who said he heard the book was boring....I have an awesome stare. He soon looked down in shame. Not one word spoken. Bear testimony and leave it at that.

But in general: don't fear....fear is trapping IMHO. You walk with certainty of what you do know and gently bring about change, perspective, and faith when you can.

With luv,

BD

I suppose it is just not ridiculously hateful political opinions that I find repulsive. Though I keep my head much better when people assault the Bom or our beliefs but have been strongly admonished to not engage Mormon haters. Don't mean to be egocentric but mosly I know the Bible and Ev Christianity better than they do. Becoming expert in our beliefs is coming, I hope.

What I usually see are individuals that are parroting things they have been told and are not actually aware of the truth. In the case of Mormonism, things that happened to me are so powerful that belief came upon me without argument.

[ERayR]

So, this has been quite the afternoon. So, what should I do as a faithful Mormon when people speak to me about how much they hate Obama, or how untrue the BoM is, or how much they hate gays?

I'm actually pretty peaceful and seek to be loving and sweet to everyone. So, how is it that some of the "faithful" feel free to engage in all sorts of repugnant talk? I am absolutely imperfect and having come out of a hate filled environment, when it comes from Mormons and people who say they are Christian, it just makes me ill and very disappointed.

I am actually more fearful of the out in the open haters than the terrorists.

Are they expressing dislike for Obama or what he is doing and how he is doing it. There is a big difference between dislike for someones actions and personal animus. As for the Book of Mormon well in the good old US of A we have the right to express our opinion no matter how wrong it is as long is it isn't physical.

Terrorists are just active out in the open haters, expressing them selves physically and violently, so I would fear them more than haters who express themselves verbally.

[ERayR]

Send me a Pm of what you are talking about. Then hopefully I can teach you to listen to something other then Glen Beck.

Rather condescending and elitist aren't you? What makes you think you are the possessor of such great wisdom?

[EllenMaksoud]

Are they expressing dislike for Obama or what he is doing and how he is doing it. There is a big difference between dislike for someones actions and personal animus. As for the Book of Mormon well in the good old US of A we have the right to express our opinion no matter how wrong it is as long is it isn't physical.

Terrorists are just active out in the open haters, expressing them selves physically and violently, so I would fear them more than haters who express themselves verbally.

Terrorists are a very small, percentage of the total population and there are very few in the USA. According to the "Southern Poverty Law Center", we are growing our own and the law is watching them.

[Calm]

Realize that Mormons are flawed like any other. And disregard their hate...I don't care for our President, but it only extends to his policies, nothing else. I know a member who called him something very unbecoming...I told him that if this was how he was going to talk to me...don't talk to me again, and he did not ever speak to me again. When my Bishop thought what he said was funny, I told him off.

Bravo (out of points)!

I had to figure out a way to correct a young girl who was repeating what she heard her elders say and who thought it was hilarious and appropriate to share with her friends at church when it was just repulsive in my view. It is not easy trying to 'tell off' someone without actually telling them off.

[Calm]

But in general: don't fear....fear is trapping...

Which instantly brings to my mind:

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

• Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear.
  

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dune

[tyler90az]

Rather condescending and elitist aren't you? What makes you think you are the possessor of such great wisdom?

No, I just keep up with politics. What the poster said aligns perfectly with the propaganda Glen Beck normally spews. Maybe I am a bit prejudice when I hear the same repugnant lines thrown out over and over again. That prejudice leads me to assume the person must be watching Glen Beck. But if I am being honest and not agreeing to agree what I would say is different. I would tell you that Glen Beck stands as a symbol of intolerance and bigotry. That means when I say listen to something other then Glen Beck, it actually means listen to something other then garbage. Like I said, I am a bit prejudice when I hear that, it probably is true that he has read every single line of every single bill the Senate and President are trying to get Congress to pass.

Anybody who would like to send me some of these bills being talked about I am all ears. Message me please, my curiosity has been peeked.

[Calm]

Like I said, I am a bit prejudice when I hear that

"A bit"? Calling something someone said "repugnant" tends to verge more than just "a bit" into prejudice, especially if that is in response to the simple suggestion that complicated laws tend to have a lot of consequences besides the main ones intended.

[rpn]

Ellen, in my family there are otherwise good people who say outrageous intolerant things that I find deeply offensive (not to mention concerning because they turn the person into something near unrecognizable). What I do is tell them I think they are wrong, that I think what they are spouting is inconsistent with what Elder ____[fill in the GC talk that relates, if I've paid enough attention to remember it] advised us to do at conference, that if they really feel that way they might want to study things that offer contrarian views because I think they are seeing things that aren't there, that it just plain hurts my ears, that it isn't true because of ___________. Sometimes I have to just not be around them. Sometimes I pray for them. Sometimes I explain something that might help them understand things differently. I don't know the answer but I see it getting worse, and from all political fronts.

At the least, I think we have to speak up and object to racist, sexists or bigotry on all fronts. Maybe just a WOW, I can't believe you really believe you should talk about your brothers and sisters that way? Do you thing God is covering His ears when you say that, or thinking about a lightening bolt?

[Calm]

(not to mention concerning because they turn the person into something near unrecognizable)

I think the shock and trying to adjust one's understanding of the other can often freeze our own thought processes so that we have a hard time in responding in a timely manner....this is one of the more frustrating to me aspects of it. Such offensive comments usually sound irrational to ourselves and it is hard to understand another's irrationality (we can generally come up with reasons for our own irrationality so that it doesn't appear so irrational when we are thinking it).

[tyler90az]

"A bit"? Calling something someone said "repugnant" tends to verge more than just "a bit" into prejudice, especially if that is in response to the simple suggestion that complicated laws tend to have a lot of consequences besides the main ones intended.

Somebody who is truly prejudice does not care what the other side thinks. I do care...

[rpn]

On what basis do you say that someone who is really prejudiced doesn't care what others think? Doesn't jive with the reality I'm familiar with and it would be interesting to hear what makes you think this and where the idea comes from.

[Calm]

On what basis do you say that someone who is really prejudiced doesn't care what others think? Doesn't jive with the reality I'm familiar with and it would be interesting to hear what makes you think this and where the idea comes from.

I was thinking along the same lines, most people with prejudice seems to me to want validation from hearing others' opinions.

[tyler90az]

On what basis do you say that someone who is really prejudiced doesn't care what others think? Doesn't jive with the reality I'm familiar with and it would be interesting to hear what makes you think this and where the idea comes from.

Care meaning willing to listen and possibly change their opinion if it is proven wrong. That is not what true prejudice is. A person who is truly prejudiced against something will not listen with open ears.

[Calm]

Care meaning willing to listen and possibly change their opinion if it is proven wrong. That is not what true prejudice is. A person who is truly prejudiced against something will not listen with open ears.

Then you need to make it clearer that you are willing to listen to the other guy by not saying something like "Then hopefully I can teach you to listen to something other then Glen Beck."

I am only harping on this because it is actually part of the thread's actual topic...dealing with intolerance which would include in my opinion perceived intolerance due to misunderstanding.

[tyler90az]

Then you need to make it clearer that you are willing to listen to the other guy by not saying something like "Then hopefully I can teach you to listen to something other then Glen Beck."

I am only harping on this because it is actually part of the thread's actual topic...dealing with intolerance which would include in my opinion perceived intolerance due to misunderstanding.

Ok I will do that.

First post:

Send me a Pm of what you are talking about.