Joanna Brooks Weighs In For Feminists

[why me]

On Saturday morning, minutes before Jean Stevens broke a historic gender barrier at the podium, at least two addresses from LDS Church leaders stressed the complementarity and value of traditional gender roles in Mormonism.(Joanna Brooks)

The wording of this sentence also seems to claim that a war is going on. By using the expression "gender barrier" she claims that there are barriers that hold women back. In her essay, there are several electrically charged expressions of militancy that comes across in her wording. She could have said: "Jean Stevens broke a historic precedent at the podium". But this wording would not be militant enough for Joanna or for her followers.

It is quite amazing how she words her statements. It shows that she has been involved in a radical form of feminism for quite some time, copying the phrases of such a feminist movement or political organization. I have also used such wording when I also wanted to fire up the base over different issues that would seem radical to most.

Edited April 8, 2013 by why me

[why me]

A good deal of that progress is coming in the form of increased visibility and resilience on the part of Mormon feminists, including an emerging generation of Mormon feminists in their 20s and 30s who are observant members of the Church and willing to shoulder a public activist stance some have viewed as dangerous. (Joanna Brooks)

It will be interesting to see what happens with these women and men when the change that they desire does not come. I would predict that they may just leave the fold and do so not so quietly. I would still love to see a definition of Mormon Feminist. I would hope that Joanna can provide one. My guess is: no definition will be forthcoming because when it is defined they would lose those women and men who do not see themselves in the definition. Much better to be vague about it all and use a generic term.

Edited April 8, 2013 by why me

[Avatar4321]

Some observers believe that the changes are part of a concerted LDS Church effort to bolster its rates of retention among younger women.

Would some observers be able to show that we were losing alot of younger women? My experience indicates that we have a much harder time with the men than the women. I could be wrong. But it's always a struggle to get priesthood leadership.

[BCSpace]

I would still love to see a definition of Mormon Feminist

You never will as it implies dissent. However, I have seen somewhere in the Church Jesus (and/or possibly Joseph Smith) being referred to as the ultimate feminist because the doctrine protects the sanctity of womanhood and traditional marriage.

[canard78]

Brooks; “…..1600 letters to LDS Church …”

And there’s 14,700,000 members, as I said on another thread it’s a tiny minority of whiners.

That's actually a very high number. Imagine getting 1,600 letters delivered at the same time. It would make a significant impression.

1 complaint is often representative of many more people who feel the same way but didn't write.

For example, in UK (a country more than 4 times bigger than the Mormon membership), if the BBC get around 100+ complaints, it makes headlines. That's less than 0.0002% of the population. But 100 complaints means that lots and lots of people felt offended by the program and 100 got around to writing the letter.

In this article, in the full year the corporation received 1,596 complaints. The most offensive show elicited 174 complaints - high enough for the Director General of the BBC to come out and make a statement on why they had decided to air the show.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-178923/BBC-receives-record-complaints.html

Some studies suggest that one written complaint to senior management represents the views of 50 more 'customers/members/clients' (I've also seen 25 quoted).

http://blog.theservicejourney.com/2010/01/11/whats-the-big-deal--its-only-one-customer-complaint-.aspx

So 1600 is actually representative of 80,000 people who feel as strongly as this but either complain locally or not at all. Plus, for every 50 people who feel this strongly, there are multiple cases of word of mouth. 1 complaint has been estimated to represent 1,375 cases of word of mouth complaints/expressions of dissatisfaction.

While these numbers may be a huge over-estimation of what 1,600 letters represent, we can be sure that they represent a much larger base than the people who wrote them.

As such, the leadership are wise to take note and consider how to meet the needs and perspectives of this global, diverse church.

[Avatar4321]

And how many of those 1600 peope are actually members of the Church?

[why me]

That's actually a very high number. Imagine getting 1,600 letters delivered at the same time. It would make a significant impression.

This depends. Sometimes, the letter is a photocopy of an original where a person just signs their name as if they wrote it but the organization wrote it and bulked mailed the signatures to the address. This also happens with White House write-in campaigns to support an issue.

However, how effective such a campaign would be with a church that claims revelation may just be slight if at all. Once an organization gives in to such a campaign, the letters never end as people push forward their issues.

[why me]

You never will as it implies dissent. .

Not necessarily. Lets look at it this way. A mormon feminist is someone who is a feminist who just happens to be mormon. This is a mormon feminist. However, the term "mormon feminist" implies something more simplistic as used by these people: a mormon who wishes the lds church to address gender issues inside the church because of inequality between men and women based on gender roles. So, if I am a feminist and a mormon who believes that there is equality in the lds church, can I call myself a Mormon feminist?

However, the organization is very close to dissent. In fact, I would bet a canadian penny that some may wish for a "martyrdom" by being excommunicated.

Edited April 8, 2013 by why me

[Calm]

Some studies suggest that one written complaint to senior management represents the views of 50 more 'customers/members/clients' (I've also seen 25 quoted).

Does that take into account multiple letters written by the same people? 300 people generated the 1600 letters so would that be 50 for each of the 300 or 50 for each of the 1600?

[canard78]

Does that take into account multiple letters written by the same people? 300 people generated the 1600 letters so would that be 50 for each of the 300 or 50 for each of the 1600?

The research is more a question of whether to respond to complaints or not. The concept is that for every 1 letter received, there are 50 more people like the first who are also complaining, but locally. So if you get one letter it's bigger than it's single part.

As for whether these were form letters or photocopied or one person sending 10 different letters. I've no idea. I had a look at one of the campaigns on Facebook, it was very specific about people writing their own letter in (by email) which were printed and delivered. Not for them to sign a petition which was turned into a form letter.

[canard78]

Gosh... even the British media is covering it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305237/LDS-Churchs-183rd-Annual-General-Conference-Woman-leads-Mormon-Church-gathering-prayer.html

It's actually a relatively fair article.

[Calm]

Good article, imo.

[Glenn101]

All Levites hold the priesthood, but only as assistants to the Aaronides among them (Aaron was a Levite), and LDS doctrine officially recognizes the right of the direct descendants of Aaron (known as kohanim "priests" among the Jews) to hold the presidency of the Aaronic priesthood in any ward where a bishop now holds that office -- with the permission of the First Presidency (D&C 68:15-20, 107:16-17, 69-70). In Jewish congregations the rights of cohens are fully respected, e.g., at redemption of the first-born ceremony, for blessing the congregation on the Day of Atonement -- they hold both hands up (like Spock in Star Trek) over the congregation and speak the blessing, etc. Jesus himself recognized the authority of the High Priest, who the NT claimed prophesied unknowingly. Oddly enough, many of the kohens have what is known as the Kohen-modal-haplotype (CMH) in their Y-chromosomes and belong to haplogroup J.

Robert, it is my understanding that only Aaron and his sons actually held the Aaronic Priesthood. The others of the tribe of Levi had the special calling to provide assistance to Aaron and his sons and their descendants. Even so, they did not receive that calling until age 30, and then not all.

Today, direct descendants of Aaron have the legal right to the presidency of the Aaronic priesthood, if they are the firstborn. Yet, according to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 68, they must still be ordained to the office before they can actually preside. 20 And a literal descendant of Aaron, also, must be designated by this Presidency, and found worthy, and annointed and ordained under the hands of this Presidency, otherwise they are not legally authorized to officiate in their priesthood.

Glenn

[Robert F. Smith]

Robert, it is my understanding that only Aaron and his sons actually held the Aaronic Priesthood. The others of the tribe of Levi had the special calling to provide assistance to Aaron and his sons and their descendants. Even so, they did not receive that calling until age 30, and then not all.

Today, direct descendants of Aaron have the legal right to the presidency of the Aaronic priesthood, if they are the firstborn. Yet, according to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 68, they must still be ordained to the office before they can actually preside. 20 And a literal descendant of Aaron, also, must be designated by this Presidency, and found worthy, and annointed and ordained under the hands of this Presidency, otherwise they are not legally authorized to officiate in their priesthood.

Glenn

Correct. What I said.

Only the direct descendants of Aaron are Aaronides, known in Hebrew as kohanim "priests." The kohen gadol is the "chief priest."

However, the entire tribe of Levi is the priestly tribe, and you are right to speak of them as assisting, like deacons, and that is the meaning of the Greek source of deacon, All are sons of Levi, who are to offer an offering in righteousness (Mal 3:3). Members of the tribe of Levi (including Aaronides) have been preparing for some time to officiate at the future temple on Mt. Moriah. They know that it is their destiny to purify the temple mount by spreading there the ashes of a red heifer, and to then offer blood sacrifices at a rebuilt temple. They do not know whether this will take place when the Messiah comes, but they are sure that it will happen. See http://www.templeinstitute.org/ . We are living in the latter-days, brother.

[DonBradley]

The details of temple ordinances were usually not recorded, but we do know that he ordained Emma a queen and a priestess.

Beyond that, he told the Relief Society he intended to make them "a kingdom of priests," he "ordained" Emma president of the Relief Society, and then he told the Relief Society that they would need to choose their own officers, just as the male quorums had deacons, teachers, and the like.

http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperDetails/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book?dm=text-only&zm=zoom-inner&tm=expanded&p=3&s=undefined&sm=none

Don

[Tacenda]

The details of temple ordinances were usually not recorded, but we do know that he ordained Emma a queen and a priestess.

Beyond that, he told the Relief Society he intended to make them "a kingdom of priests," he "ordained" Emma president of the Relief Society, and then he told the Relief Society that they would need to choose their own officers, just as the male quorums had deacons, teachers, and the like.

http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperDetails/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book?dm=text-only&zm=zoom-inner&tm=expanded&p=3&s=undefined&sm=none

Don

I don't want to put you on the spot here, but was wondering what your thoughts are on giving back the Relief Society that our mother's belonged to and that Emma was President of. Through the years the Priesthood has to worry about it since it is in their jurisdiction, for lack of a better word, is it time to restore what was first established by Joseph?

[Scott Lloyd]

Good article, imo.

I agree, but I particularly liked this golden nugget found amid the dross in the reader comments section:

Well done, a balanced, relatively accurate article on Mormons from the DM, which is a much more surprising 'first'! Contrary to popular anti-Mormon propaganda, women have always taken an equal but complimentary role to men (and have always been permitted to offer public prayers) in the Mormon faith. This is only a 'first' for Mormon women when it comes to general conference, and since women have been speaking (i.e. delivering sermons) as equals alongside the men at general conference and all other levels for decades, while this is nice it is not really that big of an issue. Also, while it is true that Mormon Bishops and Stake Presidents are always male, Male Mormon leaders at all levels are required without exception to work closely with, and take regular counsel from, Relief Society Presidents (Mormon womens' organisation), Young Women Presidents, and Primary Presidents (the Mormon childrens' organisation), who are always female.

- A mother , UK, 07/4/2013 19:09

[Mark Beesley]

Saturday’s first-ever prayer by a woman at the global General Conference of the LDS Church grabbed national headlines, reflecting heightened attention to gender equality in Mormonism—among members, LDS Church leaders, and the media.

Jean Stevens, a leader in the Primary, an LDS Church auxiliary responsible for the education of Mormon children, delivered the benediction at the Saturday morning session of General Conference.

Following Conference, I looked on cnn.com and msnbc.com to see if having a woman pray in General Conference was news. I did not a see a story on the front page of either site. It was on the front page of sltrib.com, but I didn't see it mentioned on deseretnews.com.

Maybe the event was not as significant as some seem to think , but, I suppose I could have missed something.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Mark Beesley

[Buckeye]

Following Conference, I looked on cnn.com and msnbc.com to see if having a woman pray in General Conference was news. I did not a see a story on the front page of either site. It was on the front page of sltrib.com, but I didn't see it mentioned on deseretnews.com.

Maybe the event was not as significant as some seem to think , but, I suppose I could have missed something.

Try these:

ABC NEWS: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mormons-gather-utah-semi-annual-conference-18896328

LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-mormon-church-women-prayer-20130406,0,2620140.story

NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/08/176604202/a-womans-prayer-makes-mormon-history

Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/a-mormon-glass-ceiling-shattered/2013/04/09/f1fc9406-a10a-11e2-9c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

On Monday I also saw a link on the front page of MSNBC but can't seem to find it now.

[Buzzard]

Washington Post writer was more than a bit snarky. The rest were pretty good articles.

[MormonMason]

...They know that it is their destiny to purify the temple mount by spreading there the ashes of a red heifer....

That is going to be a difficult proposition since the red heifer mentioned in the Torah went extinct some time ago, if I recall correctly. There has been talk of trying to revive the species, or breed one like the old species, using cloning and other methodologies but we'll have to see how viable this will become. The one that was claimed to have miraculously been born in the latter part of the 1990s was a hoax. The other ones that allegedly have been bred have been found impure. Some reports say that the latest one claimed so far has passed the rabbinical tests for purity but we'll see where that one goes, too.

[SamIam]

Robert, it is my understanding that only Aaron and his sons actually held the Aaronic Priesthood. The others of the tribe of Levi had the special calling to provide assistance to Aaron and his sons and their descendants. Even so, they did not receive that calling until age 30, and then not all.

Today, direct descendants of Aaron have the legal right to the presidency of the Aaronic priesthood, if they are the firstborn. Yet, according to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 68, they must still be ordained to the office before they can actually preside. 20 And a literal descendant of Aaron, also, must be designated by this Presidency, and found worthy, and annointed and ordained under the hands of this Presidency, otherwise they are not legally authorized to officiate in their priesthood.

Glenn

All Levites hold the priesthood, but only as assistants to the Aaronides among them (Aaron was a Levite), and LDS doctrine officially recognizes the right of the direct descendants of Aaron (known as kohanim "priests" among the Jews) to hold the presidency of the Aaronic priesthood in any ward where a bishop now holds that office -- with the permission of the First Presidency (D&C 68:15-20, 107:16-17, 69-70). In Jewish congregations the rights of cohens are fully respected, e.g., at redemption of the first-born ceremony, for blessing the congregation on the Day of Atonement -- they hold both hands up (like Spock in Star Trek) over the congregation and speak the blessing, etc. Jesus himself recognized the authority of the High Priest, who the NT claimed prophesied unknowingly. Oddly enough, many of the kohens have what is known as the Kohen-modal-haplotype (CMH) in their Y-chromosomes and belong to haplogroup J.

I have highlighted two lines in each of the quotes above. It appears to me that there is a distinction between Presidency of the Aaronic priesthood and the thought that a Bishop of a Ward holds the position of that Presidency. I would not have ever made the distinction myself but that some material I read by Joseph Fielding McConkie, several years ago, designates that the position in quesiton is that of the Presiding Bishop of the Church. He statement was that if the First Presidency were to acknowledge and sustain a legitamate Aaronic heir it would be that postion that was rightfully his.