Joanna Brooks Weighs In For Feminists

[why me]

http://www.religiond...ender_equality/

Saturday’s first-ever prayer by a woman at the global General Conference of the LDS Church grabbed national headlines, reflecting heightened attention to gender equality in Mormonism—among members, LDS Church leaders, and the media.

Jean Stevens, a leader in the Primary, an LDS Church auxiliary responsible for the education of Mormon children, delivered the benediction at the Saturday morning session of General Conference.

Her groundbreaking prayer comes in the wake of Let Women Pray, a campaign that generated 1600 letters to LDS Church officials petitioning for an LDS woman leader to offer an invocation or benediction during General Conference. While spokespeople for the Church have indicated that the prayer selection was made prior to the campaign, many Mormons celebrated Saturday morning’s prayer as an indication that concerns about women’s visibility, representation, and access to church leadership opportunities are being heard.

Change in institutional Mormonism comes slowly and through the deliberations of a deeply intransparent bureaucratic hierarchy. But the last six months have seen several noteworthy changes pertaining to women’s education and participation, including last October’s widely-covered lowering of the age for women’s missionary service, January’s release of a new, more theologically rigorous curriculum for Sunday meetings for young women, and Friday’s announcement that women will now hold positions of increased authority in overseeing the Church’s global proselytizing missions—an advance that follows a surge in numbers of women missionaries. Some observers believe that the changes are part of a concerted LDS Church effort to bolster its rates of retention among younger women.

Increased attention to the theology of gender and equality is also evident, both among rank-and-file Mormons and on the part of leaders.

Last month, advocates of women’s ordination to the Mormon priesthood—a lay priesthood that enfranchises all male members of the Church above 12 years of age—launched a new on-line campaign to foster conversation by profiling LDS men and women who support ordination at OrdainWomen.org.

On Friday, the LDS Church responded to the heightened attention to with the release of a <a href="

target="_blank">video featuring leaders of the Church’s women’s auxiliaries weighing in on the role of women. Female church leaders directly addressed women “concerned that they don’t hold the priesthood” by stressing the “complementary” quality of traditional gender roles and their own positive experiences in joint “councils” with the male members of the LDS leadership hierarchy.

On Saturday morning, minutes before Jean Stevens broke a historic gender barrier at the podium, at least two addresses from LDS Church leaders stressed the complementarity and value of traditional gender roles in Mormonism. Apostle M. Russell Ballard explained, "Just as a woman cannot conceive a child without a man, so a man cannot fully exercise the power of the priesthood to establish an eternal family without a woman."

This gender “complementarity” rationale has no footing in LDS scripture or even early LDS history, say advocates of Mormon women’s ordination, who convened a Saturday evening public meeting in Salt Lake City at the University of Utah featuring presentations on the role of women in the ministry of Jesus Christ and the early Christian Church as well as Joseph Smith’s own views of women as priesthood holders.

Even as various fixes to the administrative program of the Church are rolled out, need for serious theological discussion of gender issues continues. At the LDS blog Times & Seasons, Julie Smith noted some dissatisfaction with the content of the official LDS Church video rolled out Friday but observed: “Let’s take a moment and enjoy the fact that the cause of Mormon feminism has enjoyed more progress in the past six months than the past sixty years.”

A good deal of that progress is coming in the form of increased visibility and resilience on the part of Mormon feminists, including an emerging generation of Mormon feminists in their 20s and 30s who are observant members of the Church and willing to shoulder a public activist stance some have viewed as dangerous. Many feminists left or withdrew from the LDS Church after a series of high-profile excommunications of feminists began in 1993, and fears of excommunication and repression pushed many deeply committed Mormon women into a fear-driven relationship with a faith they loved.

But the release of Friday’s video suggests that LDS Church leaders are willing to acknowledge concerns about gender issues rather than excommunicate the women who raise them.

And that move towards greater openness and conversation about issues that touch the lives of so many Mormons would be progress indeed.

The discussion begins.

Edited April 8, 2013 by why me

[Calm]

Having the text in bold makes it harder to read. I would suggest changing the text of the article to regular and your own short comment to bold.

[CASteinman]

We have discussed this to death. Are we supposed to now discuss that Joanna Brooks has reported on things we have been discussing? Nothing new here.

Edited April 7, 2013 by CASteinman

[Robert F. Smith]

We have discussed this to death. Are we supposed to now discuss that Joanna Brooks has reported on things we have been discussing? Nothing new here.

It might be that we have not discussed the really salient issues staring us in the face:

For example, Brooks suggests that early Mormon women were even more repressed than currently, which is simply not true. Emma and the early sisters of the Relief Society had far more power and priesthood function than is allowed today.

Moreover, women ordinance workers regularly practice priesthood function in every LDS temple. How is that to be addressed?

Rather than talk about the remote possibility that women might get the priesthood, why haven't we discussed the theological implications of real practice of priesthood power by Mormon women now and in the past? That, together with the diaconate of women in the early Christian Church, ought to be of some significance. Is there some sort of eternal significance to the yin & yang division of roles based on mammalian gender? Does this even go back to the nature of individual intelligences?

You waved aside the biblical examples I also gave of women prophets in both OT and NT contexts, perhaps suggesting that prophecy is not a priesthood function. If that is the case, shouldn't we discuss the theological implications? Are there hard and fast rules? If so, what are they? Can it be (as Joseph Smith suggested) that a remnant of the righteous existed on the Earth throughout time, even when priesthood authority had been taken from the Earth? There is a Jewish tradition that, but for that saving remnant of righteous (tzaddikim), God would have already destroyed the Earth. Certainly, Elijah was surprised to find just such a remnant in his own day. And what of John and the Three Nephites? Don't they hold priesthood power?

[CASteinman]

It might be that we have not discussed the really salient issues staring us in the face:

I was very fascinated when I saw your response and wondered if it would be hostile or friendly. Still not sure but I am not the least bit disappointed that I find it a post with a lot of meat that is probably beyond my ken

I want to give you my mental reactions as I read it:

RFS: For example, Brooks suggests that early Mormon women were even more repressed than currently,

CAS: Holy cow! She said that! I missed it. She is SO WRONG.... How could she get that so wrong?

RFS:which is simply not true. Emma and the early sisters of the Relief Society had far more power and priesthood function than is allowed today.

CAS: Oh Good. I am glad I'm not gonna get into a fight about that. Because it would be annoying and I hate being right but then having to prove it to the reluctant.

RFS: Moreover, women ordinance workers regularly practice priesthood function in every LDS temple.

CAS: Yeah. He and I are on the same wavelength there ...

RFS: How is that to be addressed?

CAS: Huh? As in how are we going to talk about what goes in the temple? Or .. what? Confused --- started to think about supper or comfort food.

RFS: Rather than talk about the remote possibility that women might get the priesthood, why haven't we discussed the theological implications of real practice of priesthood power by Mormon women now and in the past?

CAS: Hmmm... Hope it stays VERY remote, but.. maybe I'm too much of a lightweight. I don't have any idea what those would be or why they would be interesting. I need to check myself and make sure I am not actually drooling -- cause I feel dumb.

RFS: That, together with the diaconate of women in the early Christian Church, ought to be of some significance.

CAS: Oh yeah... I remember someone brought that up. It was news to me and very interesting. Might have been something like the Relief Society President based upon some things I read -- but I don't really know what that was. (Feeling a bit uncomfortable that I have something to research and its probably not got much promise of resolution).

RFS: Is there some sort of eternal significance to the yin & yang division of roles based on mammalian gender? Does this even go back to the nature of individual intelligences?

CAS: Wow. I suppose... maybe. Sure.. why not. Am I drooling? I feel like I'm drooling....

RFS: You waved aside the biblical examples I also gave of women prophets in both OT and NT contexts,

CAS: NO NO NO!! I didn't. Where did you get that Idea? I responded that it was interesting! Didn't wave it off. Well.. OK.. Maybe some of it I did, but you would not have known that because I did not talk about it. But yeah... some of it was a bit weak. But not all. I did not ignore it or think it was nothing.

RFS: perhaps suggesting that prophecy is not a priesthood function.

CAS: Did I actually say that? I did not think I said it.. hmmm... Maybe I did. Well, I was thinking it, so maybe he's just figured me out. I can't recall.

RFS: If that is the case, shouldn't we discuss the theological implications?

CAS: Sure? Maybe? (how does my dismissing prophecy as not being a priesthood function cause a requirement for discussion of the theological implications of women having or not having the priesthood?) Man, I have GOT to be drooling. Up to get a napkin...

RFS: Are there hard and fast rules? If so, what are they? Can it be (as Joseph Smith suggested) that a remnant of the righteous existed on the Earth throughout time, even when priesthood authority had been taken from the Earth?

CAS: Wait.. there.. that last one. That's a question that might be on my level. But I never heard of this. When did he say this? I have studied his life pretty well and know lots of quotes from him. When did he say that?

RFS:There is a Jewish tradition that, but for that saving remnant of righteous (tzaddikim), God would have already destroyed the Earth. Certainly, Elijah was surprised to find just such a remnant in his own day. And what of John and the Three Nephites? Don't they hold priesthood power?

CAS: Uhhh.. yes? They do? Confused..... What is the point?

Edited April 8, 2013 by CASteinman

[urroner]

CAS: Oh Good. I am glad I'm not gonna get into a fight about that. Because it would be annoying and I hate being right but then having to prove it to the reluctant.

[Robert F. Smith]

.......................................

RFS: Are there hard and fast rules? If so, what are they? Can it be (as Joseph Smith suggested) that a remnant of the righteous existed on the Earth throughout time, even when priesthood authority had been taken from the Earth?

CAS: Wait.. there.. that last one. That's a question that might be on my level. But I never heard of this. When did he say this? I have studied his life pretty well and know lots of quotes from him. When did he say that?

It may be in History of the Church, IV:185-186,

“The work of the Lord in these last days, is one of vast magnitude and almost beyond the comprehension of mortals. Its glories are past description, and its grandeur unsurpassable. It is the theme which has animated the bosom of prophets and

righteous men

from the creation of the world down

through every succeeding generation to the present time

; and it is truly the dispensation of the fullness of times, when all things which are in Christ Jesus, whether in heaven or on the earth, shall be gathered together in Him, and when all things shall be restored, as spoken of by all the holy prophets since the world began; for in it will take place the glorious fulfilment of the promises made to the fathers, while the manifestations of the power of the Most High will be great, glorious, and sublime. …"

RFS:There is a Jewish tradition that, but for that saving remnant of righteous (tzaddikim), God would have already destroyed the Earth. Certainly, Elijah was surprised to find just such a remnant in his own day. And what of John and the Three Nephites? Don't they hold priesthood power?

CAS: Uhhh.. yes? They do? Confused..... What is the point?

Well, based on the above Joseph quote, perhaps we have been too parochial about what has been going on worldwide. We tend to ignore the Jews and the legitimate Aaronic priesthood among them. We LDS are little fish in a very big pond. I recently heard that we will have a hundred thousand missionaries in the field in a few years (up from our current 60,000), and that currently we have around 14,000 new converts per year in Africa alone. Projections by sociologist Rodney Stark are that there will be 267 million Mormons by 2080. However, we will still be less than 1% of the total population of Earth at that point. Sobering statistics. We will need the help of good people everywhere, not just Mormons, to make the millennium viable. Indeed, we were admonished in Conference today to have good interfaith relations, and to be neighborly.

[urroner]

Projections by sociologist Rodney Stark are that there will be 267 million Mormons by 2080. However, we will still be less than 1% of the total population of Earth at that point.

So by 2080, there will be over 26 billion people on earth.

[CASteinman]

We will need the help of good people everywhere, not just Mormons, to make the millennium viable. Indeed, we were admonished in Conference today to have good interfaith relations, and to be neighborly.

Whew. Lots to get back to on there, Quorum of 50 comes to mind. I wonder if I can get to this later this evening. But my immediate thought is: How does this relate to the topic of women holding the priesthood? (I have wiped my chin and am feeling smarter -- so I might have an idea, but I don't want to guess)

I like the examination of this in the context of the Mission of the Church.

[BCSpace]

This gender “complementarity” rationale has no footing in LDS scripture or even early LDS history, say advocates of Mormon women’s ordination

Neither they, nor Joanna Brooks I'm guessing, have ever read the scriptures. For example:

Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 11:11

One could also turn to Genesis etc. etc.

[Glenn101]

We tend to ignore the Jews and the legitimate Aaronic priesthood among them.

Umm, do you mean Jews holding the Aaronic priesthood or Levites among the Jews who hold the Aaronic Priesthood? Would you please clarify and explain how they could have the Levitical priesthood since it was taken from the earth and restored by John the Baptist?

Thanks,

Glenn

[Jude2]

Brooks; “…..1600 letters to LDS Church …”

And there’s 14,700,000 members, as I said on another thread it’s a tiny minority of whiners.

Robert Smith said; “…Emma and the early sisters of the Relief Society had far more power and priesthood function than is allowed today.”

Goebbel’s observation that if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it seems to have come to pass here.

[blackstrap]

So by 2080, there will be over 26 billion people on earth.

Antarctica had better be melted off by then. I predict a massive die-off of the human population well before 2080 , due mostly to economic and political chaos.

[Calm]

Brooks; “…..1600 letters to LDS Church …”

And there’s 14,700,000 members, as I said on another thread it’s a tiny minority of whiners.

1600 letters from 300 participants

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56026380-78/women-general-conference-lds.html.csp

[Robert F. Smith]

Umm, do you mean Jews holding the Aaronic priesthood or Levites among the Jews who hold the Aaronic Priesthood? Would you please clarify and explain how they could have the Levitical priesthood since it was taken from the earth and restored by John the Baptist?

Thanks,

Glenn

All Levites hold the priesthood, but only as assistants to the Aaronides among them (Aaron was a Levite), and LDS doctrine officially recognizes the right of the direct descendants of Aaron (known as kohanim "priests" among the Jews) to hold the presidency of the Aaronic priesthood in any ward where a bishop now holds that office -- with the permission of the First Presidency (D&C 68:15-20, 107:16-17, 69-70). In Jewish congregations the rights of cohens are fully respected, e.g., at redemption of the first-born ceremony, for blessing the congregation on the Day of Atonement -- they hold both hands up (like Spock in Star Trek) over the congregation and speak the blessing, etc. Jesus himself recognized the authority of the High Priest, who the NT claimed prophesied unknowingly. Oddly enough, many of the kohens have what is known as the Kohen-modal-haplotype (CMH) in their Y-chromosomes and belong to haplogroup J.

[Robert F. Smith]

Brooks; “…..1600 letters to LDS Church …”

And there’s 14,700,000 members, as I said on another thread it’s a tiny minority of whiners.

Robert Smith said; “…Emma and the early sisters of the Relief Society had far more power and priesthood function than is allowed today.”

Goebbel’s observation that if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it seems to have come to pass here.

We could CFR each other, with wondering awe.

[Robert F. Smith]

Antarctica had better be melted off by then. I predict a massive die-off of the human population well before 2080 , due mostly to economic and political chaos.

I think you are right.

Hopefully, the Millennium will have come by then. Maranatha "O, Lord, Come!" (= Rev 22:20).

[Jude2]

We could CFR each other, with wondering awe.

CFR?

[Calm]

Call for reference...

[Jude2]

Okay, someone give me a reference where Joseph ordained a woman to the priesthood?

[why me]

Having the text in bold makes it harder to read. I would suggest changing the text of the article to regular and your own short comment to bold.

The change has been made.

[Calm]

Thank you, my eyes are sensitive today and I am too lazy to capture and post it elsewhere to make the change myself as I usually do.

[why me]

"Change in institutional Mormonism comes slowly and through the deliberations of a deeply intransparent bureaucratic hierarchy." (Joanna Brooks)

I think that we are dealing with two issues here: revelation and non-revelatory change. Change actually comes rather quickly once the decision has been made. And I am not sure that the church is an intransparent bureaucracy. I would rather call it an institution. Also, hierarchy is an unfortunate word. The word Leadership would be better. It is interesting to see the wording she uses. For example, she could have said: "Change in institutional Mormonism comes slowly and through the deliberation of a hierarchical leadership".

The way she worded her sentence makes the lds church sound much more negative. Words can have a strong effect on how a person reacts when reading them.

[why me]

"Even as various fixes to the administrative program of the Church are rolled out, need for serious theological discussion of gender issues continues".(Joanna Brooks)

Why? Again this seems to imply that the church does not operate according to revelation but through the discussion of issues, of which, the ordination of women is one. I think that Joanna needs to be clear about what issues she would like to address. I am not sure if any church can function through a democratic process of discussion where people with various issues push their issue to the forefront. This could work for some protestant churches but for a church that claims to be the restored church of christ, it would not work.

[Calm]

This gender “complementarity” rationale has no footing in LDS scripture or even early LDS history, say advocates of Mormon women’s ordination, who convened a Saturday evening public meeting in Salt Lake City at the University of Utah featuring presentations on the role of women in the ministry of Jesus Christ and the early Christian Church as well as Joseph Smith’s own views of women as priesthood holders.

Would have been nice to have some documentation of this rather than just throwing it out there as if it was already demonstrated.