"Mother At Home..."

[amo]

Hi every-1,

Would u happen to know if the "Mother at Home..." is an official LDS doctrine ?

AMO

[thesometimesaint]

See https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation

[Buzzard]

We didn't listen. I don't think the doctrine changed so much as the members of the church.

[Calm]

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=8201be335dc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=cf755f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Brethren of the priesthood, I continue to emphasize the importance of mothers staying home to nurture, care for, and train their children in the principles of righteousness.

As I travel throughout the Church, I feel that the great majority of Latter-day Saint mothers earnestly want to follow this counsel. But we know that sometimes the mother works outside of the home at the encouragement, or even insistence, of her husband. It is he who wants the items of convenience that the extra income can buy. Not only will the family suffer in such instances, brethren, but your own spiritual growth and progression will be hampered. I say to all of you, the Lord has charged men with the responsibility to provide for their families in such a way that the wife is allowed to fulfill her role as mother in the home.

[halconero]

The doctrine that parents need to raise their children in the Gospel and instruct them in all thing pertinent to their salvation is taught in the scriptures and by living oracles.

The mother being at home is a recommendation on how to best accomplish this.

I'm not saying that recommendations, especially from prophets, seers and revelators acting under the influence of the Holy Ghost are not important, but the distinction between that and doctrine is.

Edited February 27, 2013 by halconero

[amo]

See https://www.lds.org/...ly-proclamation

So I did. And...??

AMO

[thesometimesaint]

AMO:

See

By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation.

[Yep]

Hi every-1,

Would u happen to know if the "Mother at Home..." is an official LDS doctrine ?

AMO

The following is currently taught in the Marriage and Family Relations Sunday School course:

President Ezra Taft Benson, To The Fathers In Israel, Priesthood Session General Conference October 1987

A Mother’s Role in the Home

Brethren of the priesthood, I continue to emphasize the importance of mothers staying home to nurture, care for, and train their children in the principles of righteousness.

As I travel throughout the Church, I feel that the great majority of Latter-day Saint mothers earnestly want to follow this counsel. But we know that sometimes the mother works outside of the home at the encouragement, or even insistence, of her husband. It is he who wants the items of convenience that the extra income can buy. Not only will the family suffer in such instances, brethren, but your own spiritual growth and progression will be hampered. I say to all of you, the Lord has charged men with the responsibility to provide for their families in such a way that the wife is allowed to fulfill her role as mother in the home. (Emphasis mine)

It is very strongly discouraged that a mother be in the home, however:

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

By divine design, fathers are to ... provide the necessities of life ... for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. ...circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation.

All the same, the place for the mother is in the home and if she is not there, the family and, very specifically, the father will suffer, period. Is it "Official Doctrine"? I interpret the Proclamation as saying that this is so, but with the caveat at the end of my quote.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Yep

[Yep]

I don't know if my post looks odd on other peoples browsers, but it does on mine. I tried retyping it a few times and it stayed that way, so oh well.

And LOL I thought my quotes were new... looked at it again and saw that they weren't.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Yep

[amo]

... the place for the mother is in the home and if she is not there, the family and, very specifically, the father will suffer, period. [bold, etc., mine]

"suffer" ?? How are we to understand this ?

Is it "Official Doctrine"? I interpret the Proclamation as saying that this is so, but with the caveat at the end of my quote. [bold, etc., mine]

...

AMO

[amo]

http://www.lds.org/l...0004d82620aRCRD

In other words, doctrine or sound advice ??

A 17 yr-old girl said to her male friends : " I don't care too much about getting an education. I know for sure that at 19 I'll go on a mision, right after that I'II marry 1 of u guys, and then, I'll take care of "our" kids for the rst of my life..."

AMO

[BlueDreams]

Amo

Would u happen to know if the "Mother at Home..." is an official LDS doctrine ?

No; though I would say it is encouraged

"suffer" ?? How are we to understand this ?

I would look less at the small blurb and more the context of the quote which indicates that the problem is more that she’s working for the pursuit (largely persuaded by her husband) for unnecessary material gains. Excess materialism is likely to lead to problems in the home. Ergo suffering

A 17 yr-old girl said to her male friends : " I don't care too much about getting an education. I know for sure that at 19 I'll go on a mision, right after that I'II marry 1 of u guys, and then, I'll take care of "our" kids for the rst of my life..."

I would personally tell her that is extremely short sided and can have lasting harm for the family. Mother's education level has been consistently shown to have a direct link to the success and well-being of the children. So even if she desires to fulfill her own goals in life, she would have greater strength and support doing so with a strong education. She's also throwing in one encouragement and command to be a mother at the expense of all the other words of encorouragement and commands to receive as much education as possible. That's imbalanced.

I would also often point out that marriage/children is definitely important in my life. But if I ignored all the other things I'm supposed to be doing and becoming that doesn't directly link to them, I would be neglecting God's plan for me and thus falling short of His glory.

Yep:

All the same, the place for the mother is in the home and if she is not there, the family and, very specifically, the father will suffer, period. Is it "Official Doctrine"? I interpret the Proclamation as saying that this is so, but with the caveat at the end of my quote.

I don’t. It has to be inferred into the text. What is mentioned is a general role within the family not the methodology used to execute it.

With luv,

BD

Edited February 26, 2013 by BlueDreams

[thesometimesaint]

AMO:

At this point it is just sound advice. But one well worth heeding. My wife waited until our youngest was in school before she reentered the labor market. We and our family are forever grateful that she did.

And I would ask her what happens if her meal ticket dies, becomes disabled, becomes unemployed, or otherwise is not able to provide for her in a manner to which she would like to become accustomed?

Edited February 26, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[amo]

Amo

No; though I would say it is encouraged

I would look less at the small blurb and more the context of the quote which indicates that the problem is more that she’s working for the pursuit (largely persuaded by her husband) for unnecessary material gains. Excess materialism is likely to lead to problems in the home. Ergo suffering

I would personally tell her that is extremely short sided and can have lasting harm for the family. Mother's education level has been consistently shown to have a direct link to the success and well-being of the children. So even if she desires to fulfill her own goals in life, she would have greater strength and support doing so with a strong education. She's also throwing in one encouragement and command to be a mother at the expense of all the other words of encorouragement and commands to receive as much education as possible. That's imbalanced.

I would also often point out that marriage/children is definitely important in my life. But if I ignored all the other things I'm supposed to be doing and becoming that doesn't directly link to them, I would be neglecting God's plan for me and thus falling short of His glory.

Yep:

I don’t. It has to be inferred into the text. What is mentioned is a general role within the family not the methodology used to execute it.

With luv,

BD

Ok. Now try explaining this in a Sunday School class or to your bishop. How do you think they/he will react ?

AMO

[BlueDreams]

Ok. Now try explaining this in a Sunday School class or to your bishop. How do you think they/he will react ?

AMO

I have. Generally informally (like while discussing stuff in a lesson). And I don't hide the fact that I'm planning on going to grad school and want a career. No one's really had a major issue with it that I'm aware of. I would have no problem saying exactly what I just said at church again.

With luv,

BD

[rongo]

Interesting about the President Benson quote above:

The wife of our patriarch used to work for our stake preseident (he is a private trucker, and she worked full-time managing his paperwork, dispatching, etc.). Immediately following the above-referenced conference talk by President Benson, she came up to him and told him she was serving her two weeks' notice.

It's interesting: some Saints obey immediately (and cheerfully) when they receive counsel. It's a manifestation of the regard they hold for those who hold the keys. Others immediately justify and rationalize why counsel doesn't apply to them. I know many families who have been blessed by heeding counsel from this stake president, who unashamedly encourages couples to have as many children as they can (he has eight, and is one of thirteen). This is off-putting to some people, who think it's not his prerogative, but those who have sought for their own witnesses and/or humbly obeyed him have been blessed. One of my young women's presidents and her husband were wrestling with whether to have a 5th child, and when he was called (simultaneously) to be the elders quorum president, he gave them this counsel and they simply did it. She stands out as someone who does what her priesthood leaders tell her to do, not in the spirit of blind obedience or "the thinking is done," but because of the humble regard she has for the calling. This was a wonderful thing as a bishop.

That said, there are individual adaptations and special circumstances. Where truly needed, the Spirit can confirm this to those involved and give peace and understanding. I know women who, by nature, temperament, and gifts and talents, should have a career (subject to God confirming this), advanced schooling, etc. Sometimes even the primary breadwinner. And I say that as a pretty conservative and old-fashioned person.

The larger problem is a general tendency for many men (not all) in the Church to not lead out in the home and to be insufficient as providers. Too many of our families have the mothers as the spiritual strength and initiative-takers. I addressed this as one of the 5th Sunday lessons in my ward when I was a bishop. Some may find the slides from "The Men and Women of Rapa Iti" (post #249) to be interesting and amusing in light of this thread:

http://www.mormondia...entry1209184166

Edited February 26, 2013 by rongo

[CV75]

Hi every-1,

Would u happen to know if the "Mother at Home..." is an official LDS doctrine ?

AMO

It is definitely doctrine. We have heavenly parents and we once lived with them in a home where they were "at".

Whether it is also a commandment or counsel or an ideal or something that has righteous exceptions in its application depends on how one applies D&C 59:3-4, "Yea, blessed are they whose feet stand upon the land of Zion, who have obeyed my gospel; for they shall receive for their reward the good things of the earth, and it shall bring forth in its strength. And they shall also be crowned with blessings from above, yea, and with commandments not a few, and with revelations in their time—they that are faithful and diligent before me."

"Blessings from above" refers to experiencing heaven on earth, or the pattern of heaven on earth, where there is definitely a "Mother at Home."

[Yep]

"suffer" ?? How are we to understand this ?

"[The father's] spiritual growth and progression will be hampered"

I don’t. It has to be inferred into the text. What is mentioned is a general role within the family not the methodology used to execute it.

"[Mothers] should try not to leave [their children] in the care of others. Our leaders have asked mothers not to work outside the home unless it is absolutely necessary." (The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A, Lesson 14)

A mother should not leave children unless it is absolutely necessary. It is an inference, but given the rest of the information that we have, a mother should not work if it means that the children are in the care of others or left to their own devices.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Yep

[thesometimesaint]

It is definitely doctrine. We have heavenly parents and we once lived with them in a home where they were "at".

Whether it is also a commandment or counsel or an ideal or something that has righteous exceptions in its application depends on how one applies D&C 59:3-4, "Yea, blessed are they whose feet stand upon the land of Zion, who have obeyed my gospel; for they shall receive for their reward the good things of the earth, and it shall bring forth in its strength. And they shall also be crowned with blessings from above, yea, and with commandments not a few, and with revelations in their time—they that are faithful and diligent before me."

"Blessings from above" refers to experiencing heaven on earth, or the pattern of heaven on earth, where there is definitely a "Mother at Home."

I eagerly await The Proclamation on the Family being added to my D&C. But alas such has not been the case so far. Maybe in this April's General Conference.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Hi every-1,

Would u happen to know if the "Mother at Home..." is an official LDS doctrine ?

AMO

"Doctrine"...no...but never a bad idea.

[MorningStar]

It surprises me how many men don't feel like their wives are contributing to their families because they don't bring in money. Any wife with a husband like this should go on cooking/laundry/cleaning strike so he understands how much she does.

[rongo]

It surprises me how many men don't feel like their wives are contributing to their families because they don't bring in money. Any wife with a husband like this should go on cooking/laundry/cleaning strike so he understands how much she does.

Do you feel that a large number of men "don't feel like their wives are contributing to their families?" Even when under-appreciated, I think this goes too far (in most cases). Even when the men aren't pulling their share of the load, don't most recognize how much the mothers/wives do?

[MorningStar]

Do you feel that a large number of men "don't feel like their wives are contributing to their families?" Even when under-appreciated, I think this goes too far (in most cases). Even when the men aren't pulling their share of the load, don't most recognize how much the mothers/wives do?

Not always. I have friends and relatives whose husbands throw fits if they aren't bringing in money even though they do the majority of the cooking, cleaning, and laundry. When my friend was going out of town, she got the house spotless and prepared a bunch of freezer meals so her husband would have an easy week, but she had been frustrated about how he wouldn't "let" her quit her job and has asked her, "Don't you want to contribute to our family?" That was a huge slap in the face. I said, "Why are you doing everything for him? You should let him cook and clean while you're gone so he understands how hard your job is!" She is burnt out from working and taking care of their home. They have plenty of money, so there's no reason for her to work. The kids even recognized she was much happier during their last break and she doesn't understand why it's not worth it to him to have a less stressed wife. He'll tell her she can quit when they have x amount of money, but when that happens, he tells her again that making more money would be even better.

When I was watching kids in our home, it wasn't worth it to my husband because I was so stressed. He begged me to quit. No, I don't feel it's a huge number, but it surprises me how many LDS men I know who seem to have missed how wives should be able to stay home when possible and that they are responsible for supporting the family financially.

Edited February 26, 2013 by MorningStar

[Ahab]

Hi every-1,

Would u happen to know if the "Mother at Home..." is an official LDS doctrine ?

AMO

Official Church doctrine is anything taught by the officials of the Church.

I know some people will balk at that, but that's what it actually is.

So, yeah, when it was taught, it was official doctrine, and to the extent that it's still taught by the officials, it still is.

... and I, for one, am very thankful to have a wonderful wife who is able to stay home and make our home feel like my home.

Home is the best place to be, and whenever I leave I always want to come back.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Ahab

[The Nehor]

Not always. I have friends and relatives whose husbands throw fits if they aren't bringing in money even though they do the majority of the cooking, cleaning, and laundry. When my friend was going out of town, she got the house spotless and prepared a bunch of freezer meals so her husband would have an easy week, but she had been frustrated about how he wouldn't "let" her quit her job and has asked her, "Don't you want to contribute to our family?" That was a huge slap in the face. I said, "Why are you doing everything for him? You should let him cook and clean while you're gone so he understands how hard your job is!" She is burnt out from working and taking care of their home. They have plenty of money, so there's no reason for her to work. The kids even recognized she was much happier during their last break and she doesn't understand why it's not worth it to him to have a less stressed wife. He'll tell her she can quit when they have x amount of money, but when that happens, he tells her again that making more money would be even better.

When I was watching kids in our home, it wasn't worth it to my husband because I was so stressed. He begged me to quit. No, I don't feel it's a huge number, but it surprises me how many LDS men I know who seem to have missed how wives should be able to stay home when possible and that they are responsible for supporting the family financially.

On the opposite end I know men whose wives harass them endlessly to work harder for a bigger paycheck. I think the baby boomer generation (or myth of that generation) screwed with ideas of what you need to live. The church is not going to all be wealthy upper-middle class.