Is It Time Or The Church To Have A Paid Ministry?

[sdc999]

It is your perception that it would be better but it doesn't appear that God agrees with you yet.

Now, if you put different punctuation in your sentence, such as, "It is your perception that it would be better but it doesn't appear that God agrees with you, yet!", it could have a whole new meaning.

Both sides have advantages. Maybe there could be a blend or even a 'more inspired' bishopric. Don't put two inarticulate speakers in front of the congregation on the same day. Although it made my wife very mad at times, I would react two ways to the dreaded "the bishop asked me to speak and I put off preparing to the very last minute' intro. I would either open my scriptures and read, ignoring the speaker who thought so highly of wasting our time or I would get up and walk out to the foyer to read.

It would be great if the bishop would get up and ask that person to sit down if he or she made the statement that they were unprepared, but they won't because most don't have the courage to do so. I have only run into ONE person who ever spoke up when someone else was straying from the mark. He and I get along to this day because he's not afraid to stand up for what he really believes is true. I didn't say he and I always agree but we do respect each other.

For those that say it is your responsiblility to get something out of sacrament, fine, take the sacrament and dismiss so that personal study/reflection can be done vs. hearing an ill prepared speaker.

[ERayR]

Now, if you put different punctuation in your sentence, such as, "It is your perception that it would be better but it doesn't appear that God agrees with you, yet!", it could have a whole new meaning.

Both sides have advantages. Maybe there could be a blend or even a 'more inspired' bishopric. Don't put two inarticulate speakers in front of the congregation on the same day. Although it made my wife very mad at times, I would react two ways to the dreaded "the bishop asked me to speak and I put off preparing to the very last minute' intro. I would either open my scriptures and read, ignoring the speaker who thought so highly of wasting our time or I would get up and walk out to the foyer to read.

It would be great if the bishop would get up and ask that person to sit down if he or she made the statement that they were unprepared, but they won't because most don't have the courage to do so. I have only run into ONE person who ever spoke up when someone else was straying from the mark. He and I get along to this day because he's not afraid to stand up for what he really believes is true. I didn't say he and I always agree but we do respect each other.

For those that say it is your responsiblility to get something out of sacrament, fine, take the sacrament and dismiss so that personal study/reflection can be done vs. hearing an ill prepared speaker.

It seems appropriate here to bring up the adage about people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Duncan]

I'll admit, much of my desire is selfish for wanting consistently interesting (note, I never said entertaining) and thought provoking church meetings. This however would not create a contest of bishops competing for congregants seeing who could out do who as some have suggested. We would still have our assigned wards and bishops would be paid at a standard rate just as CES employees are.

I really feel for the bishopric/stake presidency, with the amount of time they spend away from their families, not to mention the added responsibility that is suddenly thrust upon, and I might add that they never asked for. I mean does anybody here really want to be bishop, do you know anyone who does? I know it's the system we have, but it seems like we can do better.

I have a quotation from Pres. J. Reuben Clark that says something like you can tell a man is unfit for a calling by the simple fact of him wanting it! My bro is the stake clerk and he has meetings every sunday at 7am and sometimes he has had earlier meetings then that

[bluebell]

Now, if you put different punctuation in your sentence, such as, "It is your perception that it would be better but it doesn't appear that God agrees with you, yet!", it could have a whole new meaning.

Both sides have advantages. Maybe there could be a blend or even a 'more inspired' bishopric. Don't put two inarticulate speakers in front of the congregation on the same day. Although it made my wife very mad at times, I would react two ways to the dreaded "the bishop asked me to speak and I put off preparing to the very last minute' intro. I would either open my scriptures and read, ignoring the speaker who thought so highly of wasting our time or I would get up and walk out to the foyer to read.

It would be great if the bishop would get up and ask that person to sit down if he or she made the statement that they were unprepared, but they won't because most don't have the courage to do so. I have only run into ONE person who ever spoke up when someone else was straying from the mark. He and I get along to this day because he's not afraid to stand up for what he really believes is true. I didn't say he and I always agree but we do respect each other.

For those that say it is your responsiblility to get something out of sacrament, fine, take the sacrament and dismiss so that personal study/reflection can be done vs. hearing an ill prepared speaker.

I have felt that way on occassion, but when i get that way i try to remember one of my favorite people in the world who used to always remind me that though people in the church are always talking about the importance of mercy and justice, what most people really want is 'mercy for themselves, and justice for everyone else'.

We are sometimes very quick to have no mercy whatsoever for other people's weaknesses (especially if they happen to be one of our strengths) but put us in a position where one of our weaknesses is showcased to the world, and we suddenly hope to high heaven that people will be merciful in their dealings and opinions of our efforts (or lack thereof) and sometimes we even get a bit self-righteous if they aren't.

An ill prepared speaker will have his or her own reward. We shouldn't let that determine what kind of a listener we are willing to be though, in my opinion.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Better talks would be a high price to pay for the perfecting of the Saints.

Precisely.

A minor example: When I was preparing for my first PhD seminar, one of my advisors asked me if I wanted to do a practice run in front of her just to get over my nerves. I thanked her for the offer but pointed out that I didn't feel nervous at all speaking in front of people since I'd been giving sermons at church since I was about three years old. The purpose of the Church is the growth and development of all members, and that means we have to be comfortable with each other as works in progress.

Serving as Young Men president for seven years changed me in permanent and important ways ... which means I was definitely better at it at the end than I was at the beginning. Now I'm going through the same process as a counsellor to our bishop, and I thank the ward members repeatedly for allowing me the opportunity to grow with them.

[ERayR]

Precisely.

A minor example: When I was preparing for my first PhD seminar, one of my advisors asked me if I wanted to do a practice run in front of her just to get over my nerves. I thanked her for the offer but pointed out that I didn't feel nervous at all speaking in front of people since I'd been giving sermons at church since I was about three years old. The purpose of the Church is the growth and development of all members, and that means we have to be comfortable with each other as works in progress.

Serving as Young Men president for seven years changed me in permanent and important ways ... which means I was definitely better at it at the end than I was at the beginning. Now I'm going through the same process as a counsellor to our bishop, and I thank the ward members repeatedly for allowing me the opportunity to grow with them.

And what is even more important is that you had the opportunity to touch and improve a great many young lives.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I'll admit, much of my desire is selfish for wanting consistently interesting (note, I never said entertaining) and thought provoking church meetings.

How exactly would you propose makinge these kinds of assessments? Three Sundays ago, I'd asked three elderly members of our ward to speak. I loved their words! They were simple and sincere, and what they preached was true. I found the whole experience edifying.

Later that same day, I was visiting one of my mates and his wife, and they both started moaning about how BORING sacrament meeting had been -- just old people rambling on. Not a little surprised, I let them express their disappointment and then pointed out some of the points made which had really touched me. Neither of them could remember any of the statements I paraphrased. They apparently hadn't even heard the same talks I had.

I really feel for the bishopric/stake presidency, with the amount of time they spend away from their families, not to mention the added responsibility that is suddenly thrust upon, and I might add that they never asked for. I mean does anybody here really want to be bishop, do you know anyone who does?

I appreciate your concern for me -- and you're right that no one would ever choose to serve in a bishopric -- but I hope you don't mind if I suggest gently that your sympathy is misplaced. I'm very close to a family in the ward whose son I helped become active. He's now serving a mission (and his entire family is active due to his example), and I know there are those who would feel for this family having to be separated from their eldest son for two years, but I'm confident that, if you asked the family (as I have done), they wouldn't have it any other way.

[Hamba Tuhan]

And what is even more important is that you had the opportunity to touch and improve a great many young lives.

And that's the sheer miracle of it!

[sheilauk]

How exactly would you propose makinge these kinds of assessments? Three Sundays ago, I'd asked three elderly members of our ward to speak. I loved their words! They were simple and sincere, and what they preached was true. I found the whole experience edifying.

Later that same day, I was visiting one of my mates and his wife, and they both started moaning about how BORING sacrament meeting had been -- just old people rambling on. Not a little surprised, I let them express their disappointment and then pointed out some of the points made which had really touched me. Neither of them could remember any of the statements I paraphrased. They apparently hadn't even heard the same talks

One reason I take a notebook with me and write down what people say in talks is so I can ponder them afterwards. It also helps me concentrate and not get bored.

Edited December 31, 2012 by sheilauk

[blackstrap]

Maybe it is time for some of the enlightened intelligencia to start up an LDS Church-light. Just 5% tithing if you feel so inclined. Church once a month for an hour max and available over the internet.A virtual church if you will. Cigarettes etc. would still be banned(not PC ), but coffee is acceptable on social occasions and alcohol as long as it is under 30 proof. Sermons would be taking from the previous month's TV or radio religious programs "Best of " . All doctrines would be established by democratic vote a la the Swiss model and would automatically have a sunset clause so they must be renewed at the end of, say, a 5 year term . Above all, there must be a constant recitation of the theme" You are perfect just the way you are "

All those in favor say, AYE. All those opposed say, WE WILL PONDER ON IT AS IT SEEMS A BIT RESTRICTIVE

Note to self: new years resolution-- stop with the cynical posts!

Edited December 31, 2012 by blackstrap

[Duncan]

Maybe it is time for some of the enlightened intelligencia to start up an LDS Church-light. Just 5% tithing if you feel so inclined. Church once a month for an hour max and available over the internet.A virtual church if you will. Cigarettes etc. would still be banned(not PC ), but coffee is acceptable on social occasions and alcohol as long as it is under 30 proof. Sermons would be taking from the previous month's TV or radio religious programs "Best of " . All doctrines would be established by democratic vote a la the Swiss model and would automatically have a sunset clause so they must be renewed at the end of, say, a 5 year term . Above all, there must be a constant recitation of the theme" You are perfect just the way you are "

All those in favor say, AYE. All those opposed say, WE WILL PONDER ON IT AS IT SEEMS A BIT RESTRICTIVE

Note to self: new years resolution-- stop with the cynical posts!

I love your posts!

[Judd]

Why don't we outsource our missionary force? If it's only $400/mo for a missionary then those folks could stay home and earn more money than that and just contribute to the mission fund to support 3x what they alone could do. Imagine, we could have professional missionaries out there well versed in productivity as well as understanding more scientifically their demographic populations. We would just need to continue to invest money into the machine and watch God's kingdom grow. These are great ideas! Imagine the strength of converts' knowledge as they are more efficiently taught church history!

Imagine how much more clear (and enlightening as well as literarily geniused) our scripture canon would be if done by paid professionals.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Judd

[omni]

It is your perception that it would be better but it doesn't appear that God agrees with you yet.

Perhaps you're correct. I'll ask him tonight and see what he has to say about it.

[volgadon]

I love your posts!

Must be some sort of Canadian quid pro quo scheme.

[Duncan]

Must be some sort of Canadian quid pro quo scheme.

it's a privilege to see your mind at work! haha! No, but in Canada to meet or be in contact with another active Mormon (as Mormon as you can be in Alberta!) is a true blessing simply because there aren't a whole lot of us around. We are getting a lot of missionaries from Canada coming to serve here and to me you just have this instant not love for but he/she is aces because as I say there aren't a ton of us around. Not that I mistreat or think less of missionaries from other places just that you are more inclined to help out a fellow Canadian Mormon. I don't think there isn't a Canadian on here I wouldn't say no to if they invited me over to dinner !

[volgadon]

No, but in Canada to meet or be in contact with another active Mormon (as Mormon as you can be in Alberta!) is a true blessing simply because there aren't a whole lot of us around.

Tell me about it. There tend to be less LDS in my entire country than there are in a standard ward in the USA.

Edited December 31, 2012 by volgadon

[Duncan]

Tell me about it. There tend to be less LDS in my entire country than there are in a standard ward in the USA.

where do you live if you don't mind me asking?

[Hamba Tuhan]

Several earlier posts gots me thinking about this interview with Pres Uchtdorf: 'Tending the Flock', including the following:

The organization of the Church provides opportunities for not only spiritual growth but growth in other areas. President Uchtdorf says of his career in aviation, “Everything that helped me to accomplish what I did in my professional life, I learned through the Church.”

Leaders may be inclined to conduct, provide the music, or pray at a youth fireside or other meeting, but they should be “shadow leaders,” overseeing the youth who perform these functions, President Uchtdorf says.

“This can be a challenge for parents and leaders because they know that they can probably do it faster or better. It takes patience to let the youth do it. Sometimes that involves letting them stumble. The scripture says, ‘That my people may be taught more perfectly, and have experience, and know more perfectly concerning their duty, and the things which I require at their hands’ (D&C 105:10; emphasis added).

“You set the example and let them learn. Consider the Savior. He lets us do His work here in our different callings. He is patient with us. That is what we need to do with our young people.”

Edited December 31, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan

[omni]

Maybe it is time for some of the enlightened intelligencia to start up an LDS Church-light. Just 5% tithing if you feel so inclined. Church once a month for an hour max and available over the internet.A virtual church if you will. Cigarettes etc. would still be banned(not PC ), but coffee is acceptable on social occasions and alcohol as long as it is under 30 proof. Sermons would be taking from the previous month's TV or radio religious programs "Best of " . All doctrines would be established by democratic vote a la the Swiss model and would automatically have a sunset clause so they must be renewed at the end of, say, a 5 year term . Above all, there must be a constant recitation of the theme" You are perfect just the way you are "

All those in favor say, AYE. All those opposed say, WE WILL PONDER ON IT AS IT SEEMS A BIT RESTRICTIVE

Note to self: new years resolution-- stop with the cynical posts!

Hey, I think you're on to something! I here by call you to be bishop of this new LDS lite ward...and you'll be well compensated of course!

[volgadon]

where do you live if you don't mind me asking?

In the USA at the moment, but I am from Israel.

[Tacenda]

it's a privilege to see your mind at work! haha! No, but in Canada to meet or be in contact with another active Mormon (as Mormon as you can be in Alberta!) is a true blessing simply because there aren't a whole lot of us around. We are getting a lot of missionaries from Canada coming to serve here and to me you just have this instant not love for but he/she is aces because as I say there aren't a ton of us around. Not that I mistreat or think less of missionaries from other places just that you are more inclined to help out a fellow Canadian Mormon. I don't think there isn't a Canadian on here I wouldn't say no to if they invited me over to dinner !

My nephew is serving there now! One of my favorite actors is Michael J. Fox. Not necessarily for his acting but for his courage in living with Parkinson's disease. I read his books too. Canadians are awesome. There's Anne Murray, Dan Akroyd to name a few. Very distinct personalities, like you Duncan. Edited December 31, 2012 by Tacenda

[blackstrap]

it's a privilege to see your mind at work! haha! No, but in Canada to meet or be in contact with another active Mormon (as Mormon as you can be in Alberta!) is a true blessing simply because there aren't a whole lot of us around. We are getting a lot of missionaries from Canada coming to serve here and to me you just have this instant not love for but he/she is aces because as I say there aren't a ton of us around. Not that I mistreat or think less of missionaries from other places just that you are more inclined to help out a fellow Canadian Mormon. I don't think there isn't a Canadian on here I wouldn't say no to if they invited me over to dinner !

As long as they are translated correctly!

[Duncan]

My nephew is serving there now! One of my favorite actors is Michael J. Fox. Not necessarily for his acting but for his courage in living with Parkinson's disease. I read his books too. Canadians are awesome. There's Anne Murray, Dan Akroyd to name a few. Very distinct personalities, like you Duncan.

thank you for your kind words! where is he serving?

[Duncan]

As long as they are translated correctly!

hahaha!

Edited December 31, 2012 by Duncan

[blackstrap]

Hey, I think you're on to something! I here by call you to be bishop of this new LDS lite ward...and you'll be well compensated of course!

Bishop is so....old school. How about Principle Facilitator and my assistants could be my representatives, PFRs.

Edited December 31, 2012 by blackstrap