Is It Time Or The Church To Have A Paid Ministry?

[Antoni]

I posted on the "priestcraft" thread and then saw this one here - I'll try not to repeat myself.

For those that think a paid clergy is a good idea, it really isn't, I speak as one who has been in a variety of churches with a variety of paid clergy models. In fact I even went to bible college and was considering it as a career.

If we want our membership to turn into people that want entertainment and easyness over discipleship and sacrifice - then paid clergy is the way to go. If you think paid clergy talks will be better, think again, I sat through some dire talks by those that are apparently "trained" in how to give talks.

As I said in the other thread, this is a key issue of doctrine for me as the introducing of a paid clergy is a key sign of the start of the apostasy.

To those that have maybe grown up in LDS, and think paid may be way to go, I can testify that it really isn't for practical and more importantly spiritual reasons. mfbukowski's testimony of his time as a bishop I think shows why.

Light, Love and Peace

[Tacenda]

I posted on the "priestcraft" thread and then saw this one here - I'll try not to repeat myself.

For those that think a paid clergy is a good idea, it really isn't, I speak as one who has been in a variety of churches with a variety of paid clergy models. In fact I even went to bible college and was considering it as a career.

If we want our membership to turn into people that want entertainment and easyness over discipleship and sacrifice - then paid clergy is the way to go. If you think paid clergy talks will be better, think again, I sat through some dire talks by those that are apparently "trained" in how to give talks.

As I said in the other thread, this is a key issue of doctrine for me as the introducing of a paid clergy is a key sign of the start of the apostasy.

To those that have maybe grown up in LDS, and think paid may be way to go, I can testify that it really isn't for practical and more importantly spiritual reasons. mfbukowski's testimony of his time as a bishop I think shows why.

Light, Love and Peace

Please don't judge (not that you would) but I watched Bornagainmormon with Shawn McCraney yesterday. To start the new year he said he's done with shows about Mormonism and the error of the doctrines. I guess he and his family took a month off and visited several American Evangelical churches in Utah. He apparently was shocked at the showman or the rock band style of preaching. His new premise for the show will be to go after these groups. He would like to see churches teach the bible, verse by verse. I believe he's seeing alot of problems discussed on this thread or the priestcraft thread.

We'll see how long his show will last. I give it maybe a year...but glad he'll lay off the Mormon stuff that is regurgitated every year.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Tacenda

[ERayR]

God has spent 200 years developing a Priesthood oriented people I just don't see him approving backsliding into a priest oriented mode.

[sdc999]

I posted on the "priestcraft" thread and then saw this one here - I'll try not to repeat myself.

If you think paid clergy talks will be better, think again, I sat through some dire talks by those that are apparently "trained" in how to give talks.

Light, Love and Peace

That's a funny statement. Everybody is entitled to hear bad talks.

[sdc999]

God has spent 200 years developing a Priesthood oriented people I just don't see him approving backsliding into a priest oriented mode.

He's only spent 34 years developing a 'black' Priesthood oriented person.

FYI: Inserting race into an unrelated topic is considered to be race baiting = thread ban. I'll give you a warning since you are new.

[ERayR]

He's only spent 34 years developing a 'black' Priesthood oriented person.

When someone (red, white, black or polkadot) joins the church they have the framework that has been developed over the last 200 years to strengthen them.

Did you have some purpose trying to derail the thread with racism?

Edited January 2, 2013 by ERayR

[Calm]

His new premise for the show will be to go after these groups. He would like to see churches teach the bible, verse by verse. I believe he's seeing alot of problems discussed on this thread or the priestcraft thread.

We'll see how long his show will last. I give it maybe a year...but glad he'll lay off the Mormon stuff that is regurgitated every year.

I was thinking "wonderful" as I read he had a change of heart towards Mormons...and then I finished reading the post.

Too bad that instead of feeling the need to go after any other groups, he just can't choose to be the kind of show he thinks others should be, an example rather than an attacker.

Maybe next year he'll move closer to that ideal.

[mfbukowski]

He's only spent 34 years developing a 'black' Priesthood oriented person.

OOPs

Ok I am totally confused. What am I missing? What does any of this have to do with Black people?

[ERayR]

Ok I am totally confused. What am I missing? What does any of this have to do with Black people?

That is my question. See my post #106. The oops was because I hit the quote button on my own post then to complete the brain **** I posted it.

[sdc999]

When someone (red, white, black or polkadot) joins the church they have the framework that has been developed over the last 200 years to strengthen them.

Did you have some purpose trying to derail the thread with racism?

My point is that things can change, Period. Racist, I'm not.

scroll up for warning: zero tolerance for race baiting on this board

[mfbukowski]

That is my question. See my post #106. The oops was because I hit the quote button on my own post then to complete the brain **** I posted it.

OK I thought you had figured out the joke or whatever that I missed.

So it appears to be just racist for racism's sake, out of the clear blue. Not good especially for a newbie.

[ERayR]

OK I thought you had figured out the joke or whatever that I missed.

So it appears to be just racist for racism's sake, out of the clear blue. Not good especially for a newbie.

He/she protest that it wasn't racism but what else is it when one drops the race card, out of the blue, into the middle of a conversation.

[ERayR]

My point is that things can change, Period. Racist, I'm not.

Why drop race into the middle of it?

[mfbukowski]

He/she protest that it wasn't racism but what else is it when one drops the race card, out of the blue, into the middle of a conversation.

I dunno. I agree. I still am not getting the point. I am missing why it is relevant that it takes time for God to change people if indeed that was the point.

[ERayR]

I dunno. I agree. I still am not getting the point. I am missing why it is relevant that it takes time for God to change people if indeed that was the point.

My point is that a priesthood centered people has been 200 years in the making. I don't think God wants to dump that and go back to priest craft.

[Avatar4321]

We are already paid. The Lord blesses us freely.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

So that we can be like the rest of Christendom?

In keeping with the OP...why would having a paid clergy result in "better sermons"?

[DavidB]

I do not know what takes up a Bishops time, but my guess is some of those meetings with people could directed to professionals in the respective area of the persons issue.

We already have people called to full time ministry who receive a living allowance i.e. General Authorities.

I do not think that local "clergy" need to receive an allowance, though they dedicate much time to the church and spend many hours away from their own families.

I support utilization of networks to see to the needs of people.

[omni]

In keeping with the OP...why would having a paid clergy result in "better sermons"?

I'm curious if those who keep asking this question have ever attended institute or seminary where the instructor is a CES employee. In my experience I loved most if not all of my teachers. They made it interesting, they knew their stuff, they knew how to bring the spirit to a lesson, heck even my EFY speakers were great at this. Just like most any profession, they are going to be better than an amateur. I'm speaking in generalities of course, there are many fine lay members who can give talks/lessons and some poor CES employees, but on the whole I think the quality would drastically improve.

For those who bring up the notion of priestcraft...are CES employees guilty of this?

[The Nehor]

I respect that you would stick around to listen but I still feel that our world has become complacent with laziness and lack of effort. I rarely see accountability anymore. My wife is a teacher, and now, the kid's excuses for not being prepared are backed up by parent's excuses as to why their children are not prepared for a test or have their homework done and 'the teacher should understand." This isn't an LDS thing or a Methodist or even a Baptist thing. It's becoming an American cultural thing.

As a counterpoint: Perhaps the educational system should realize that if you cannot teach students concepts in time amounting to an adult's full-time job then tacking 2-3 hours of work at home afterwards is unlikely to help.

[DavidB]

I'm curious if those who keep asking this question have ever attended institute or seminary where the instructor is a CES employee. In my experience I loved most if not all of my teachers. They made it interesting, they knew their stuff, they knew how to bring the spirit to a lesson, heck even my EFY speakers were great at this. Just like most any profession, they are going to be better than an amateur. I'm speaking in generalities of course, there are many fine lay members who can give talks/lessons and some poor CES employees, but on the whole I think the quality would drastically improve.

For those who bring up the notion of priestcraft...are CES employees guilty of this?

I would rather not have paid "professionals" for religious things. The arrogance, sense of entitlement, and ivory towers attached to the rotten apples of "professionals" spoils the bunch.

It seems pretty well accepted that receipt of monies is not automatic priestcraft, so a CES employee is NOT automatically engaged in priestcraft.

Edited January 3, 2013 by DavidB

[ERayR]

For those who bring up the notion of priestcraft...are CES employees guilty of this?

The do not perform priestly functions. Priestcraft is having someone performing priestly functions and inserting them selves as an arbiter between a person and God and Christ.

Edited January 3, 2013 by ERayR

[The Nehor]

The do not perform priestly functions. Priestcraft is having someone performing priestly functions and inserting them selves as an arbiter between a person and God and Christ.

Actually it is to preach to get gain and glory rather then seeking to serve God and his kingdom and establish Zion. There is a fair amount of this in the church. Last time someone bore testimony to me of their MLM scheme for example.

[ERayR]

Actually it is to preach to get gain and glory rather then seeking to serve God and his kingdom and establish Zion. There is a fair amount of this in the church. Last time someone bore testimony to me of their MLM scheme for example.

I have never met a seminary instructor who would fit in your description. MLM on the other hand is false doctrine.

[The Nehor]

I have never met a seminary instructor who would fit in your description. MLM on the other hand is false doctrine.

I have known one though of course I could not see his heart. Stupid lack of x-ray vision and silly hippocratic oath prevent it.