Why Was The Relief Society Disbanded For 23 Years?

[Tacenda]

http://feministmormonhousewivespodcast.org/episode-23-daughters-in-my-kingdom-chapter-2-the-female-relief-society-of-nauvoo-part-one/

Just listened to part 1. Is this a non issue and I'm bored or is it a topic of interest to anyone?

http://runtu.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/suspending-relief-society/

I don't know too much about the disbandment of the RS. But found two quotes taken from the site above. And there is a distinct difference. Which is the true statement?

Quote from History of the Relief Society:

The Relief Society would not meet again. “When Emma had the women take a public oath with their hands raised in support of virtue, she caused enough consternation in the men’s councils to stop the Relief Society meetings” (Ibid., 174). Church president John Taylor explained that the “reason why the Relief Society did not continue from the first organization was that Emma Smith the Pres. taught the Sisters that the principle of Celestial Marriage as taught and practiced by Joseph Smith was not of God” (174).

CES Manual:

Although at that time Latter-day Saint women had to apply to become members, the Relief Society was very popular and grew rapidly. Membership had grown to over thirteen hundred women at the time of Joseph Smith’s death. Because of the crisis created by the Martyrdom and the exodus to and settlement in the West, there were few Relief Society meetings until the organization was revived in 1867.

[Calm]

Since Emma did not travel out to the West with the rest of the Saints and since polygamy itself became an open practice, I highly doubt her action in this regard was the sole reason for the RS not being revived until 1867.

Edited December 8, 2012 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

Since Emma did not travel out to the West with the rest of the Saints and since polygamy itself became an open practice, I highly doubt her action in this regard was the sole reason for the RS not being revived until 1867.

Brigham Young distrusted the program at first though it existed everywhere as an informal organization until he decided to publicly reorganize it.

[urroner]

Brigham Young distrusted the program at first though it existed everywhere as an informal organization until he decided to publicly reorganize it.

WHAT!!!! With all those wives and he didn't trust women???? What is this world coming to?

:vader: :vader:

[cinepro]

http://feministmormo...auvoo-part-one/

Just listened to part 1. Is this a non issue and I'm bored or is it a topic of interest to anyone?

http://runtu.wordpre...relief-society/

I don't know too much about the disbandment of the RS. But found two quotes taken from the site above. And there is a distinct difference. Which is the true statement?

Quote from History of the Relief Society:

The Relief Society would not meet again. “When Emma had the women take a public oath with their hands raised in support of virtue, she caused enough consternation in the men’s councils to stop the Relief Society meetings” (Ibid., 174). Church president John Taylor explained that the “reason why the Relief Society did not continue from the first organization was that Emma Smith the Pres. taught the Sisters that the principle of Celestial Marriage as taught and practiced by Joseph Smith was not of God” (174).

CES Manual:

Although at that time Latter-day Saint women had to apply to become members, the Relief Society was very popular and grew rapidly. Membership had grown to over thirteen hundred women at the time of Joseph Smith’s death. Because of the crisis created by the Martyrdom and the exodus to and settlement in the West, there were few Relief Society meetings until the organization was revived in 1867.

When did the Relief Society stop having meetings?

If 1842, then the second quote is embarrassing. If 1844, then okay.

[Tacenda]

When did the Relief Society stop having meetings?

If 1842, then the second quote is embarrassing. If 1844, then okay.

If that's your notion, could you explain more? Thank you. Edited December 9, 2012 by Tacenda

[cinepro]

If that's your notion, could you explain more? Thank you.

Here's the second quote (emphasis added).

Although at that time Latter-day Saint women had to apply to become members, the Relief Society was very popular and grew rapidly. Membership had grown to over thirteen hundred women at the time of Joseph Smith’s death. Because of the crisis created by the Martyrdom and the exodus to and settlement in the West, there were few Relief Society meetings until the organization was revived in 1867.

The "martyrdom and exodus" was in 1844+. If the Relief Society stopped having meetings in 1842, it's a bit of a stretch to blame it on events that wouldn't happen for several more years.

[Tacenda]

Here's the second quote (emphasis added).

The "martyrdom and exodus" was in 1844+. If the Relief Society stopped having meetings in 1842, it's a bit of a stretch to blame it on events that wouldn't happen for several more years.

Yup.

[Stargazer]

http://runtu.wordpre...relief-society/

It looks like you've dredged up an old JohnW blog post. Since you are newish here, you might like to know that Runtu's Rincon is a blog published by a now-banned member of this forum named John W. I believe the W is for Williams. He was a faithful member of the church, and even worked for a time as an employee of the church, but lost his testimony. He's a writer, I believe. Rather than let the Church be and just move along he spends some effort finding opportunities to knock the Church. I was wondering if he has still not grown out of it, and checking some recent entries in his blog I see that he is still all wrapped around the axle with it.

In his Nov 21, 2012 entry he refers purification rituals and then invents one for Mormonism whose penultimate step is "Treat each day as a clean slate without any Mormonism in it."

I wonder when he is going to follow his own advice finally?

[The Nehor]

Ah Runtu.....he is a standing indictment to us all. Mostly because he fixates on our faith more most days then most of us trying to live it. I for one am inspired to redouble my efforts to live my faith.

[BCSpace]

Why Was The Relief Society Disbanded For 23 Years?

To fulfill Revelation 8:1

[sdc999]

Because all of the women started showing up for church in (gasp) pants!!!!!

They were allowed to begin meeting again once they had all agreed to a more formal dress code by a show of the usual sign.

[EllenMaksoud]

http://feministmormo...auvoo-part-one/

Just listened to part 1. Is this a non issue and I'm bored or is it a topic of interest to anyone?

http://runtu.wordpre...relief-society/

I don't know too much about the disbandment of the RS. But found two quotes taken from the site above. And there is a distinct difference. Which is the true statement?

Quote from History of the Relief Society:

The Relief Society would not meet again. “When Emma had the women take a public oath with their hands raised in support of virtue, she caused enough consternation in the men’s councils to stop the Relief Society meetings” (Ibid., 174). Church president John Taylor explained that the “reason why the Relief Society did not continue from the first organization was that Emma Smith the Pres. taught the Sisters that the principle of Celestial Marriage as taught and practiced by Joseph Smith was not of God” (174).

CES Manual:

Although at that time Latter-day Saint women had to apply to become members, the Relief Society was very popular and grew rapidly. Membership had grown to over thirteen hundred women at the time of Joseph Smith’s death. Because of the crisis created by the Martyrdom and the exodus to and settlement in the West, there were few Relief Society meetings until the organization was revived in 1867.

A matter of interest to me is that women in their 80's have told me in relief society, that when they were younger, when a man, or your husband said something, you had to do it. The Bishop and the GA always ruled on the side of the men. Just guessing but this must have been in the 40's and 50's. I am not sure what I am seeing.

A persistent story from my agnostic roomate, she says that she has a friend that married a Mormon man and they lived in "the sticks", and they scratch cooked everything. She says that her friend had a really bad experience. I have been wanting to meet her friend to get the details but have not. Most of these stories are over blown.

Of course, any woman, Mormon or not, can marry a sweet man that turns out to be a bridge troll. I'll never have the experience again.

[Avatar4321]

A matter of interest to me is that women in their 80's have told me in relief society, that when they were younger, when a man, or your husband said something, you had to do it. The Bishop and the GA always ruled on the side of the men. Just guessing but this must have been in the 40's and 50's. I am not sure what I am seeing.

A persistent story from my agnostic roomate, she says that she has a friend that married a Mormon man and they lived in "the sticks", and they scratch cooked everything. She says that her friend had a really bad experience. I have been wanting to meet her friend to get the details but have not. Most of these stories are over blown.

Of course, any woman, Mormon or not, can marry a sweet man that turns out to be a bridge troll. I'll never have the experience again.

While interesting stories, what does this have to do with the questions posed?

[EllenMaksoud]

While interesting stories, what does this have to do with the questions posed?

Oh, well if it offends you, please pompously remove it.

[Calm]

A matter of interest to me is that women in their 80's have told me in relief society, that when they were younger, when a man, or your husband said something, you had to do it.

This is my mother's generation....society in general was like this, the legal system downplayed domestic abuse at the time and divorce was not seen as appropriate for many if only because women didn't have the financial independence that they often do now....though I doubt that it was as generally extreme as painted here, it certainly wasn't in either my parents or my grandparents' relationship. Both of my grandmothers ruled their homes. My mother went the other way to a great extent because she felt her father wasn't given enough of a voice, but she never just went ahead and did what my dad wanted without question...she required a good reason for it to be done and he was usually able to give her a good reason for his opinion.

[volgadon]

http://www.withoutend.org/revolutionary-sisterhood-struggle-sustain-prophetic-vision/

[Buzzard]

One wonders how much Brigham's dislike of anything having to do with Emma played into this. One highly apocryphal quote that was related to me by a high school seminary teacher (I heard a lot of false doctrine in seminary, but that's another thread) was that upon being reminded of Joseph's statement that he would go anywhere, including hell, to find and bring Emma to him, Brigham responded "That's where he will find her".

While that quote is of dubious authenticity, it does seem to reflect Brigham's feeling about Emma Smith.

[CASteinman]

Because 24 years was considered too harsh.....

[T-Shirt]

When did the Relief Society stop having meetings?

The last meeting in Nauvoo was March 16, 1844. The meetings stopped, largely, due to the conflict between Emma and Joseph regarding plural marriage. Technically, the Society was not disbanded, they just stopped the official meetings. The work of the Relief Society continued, to one degree or another, until it was officially reestablished by Brigham Young.

[Scott Lloyd]

This is my mother's generation....society in general was like this, the legal system downplayed domestic abuse at the time and divorce was not seen as appropriate for many if only because women didn't have the financial independence that they often do now....though I doubt that it was as generally extreme as painted here, it certainly wasn't in either my parents or my grandparents' relationship. Both of my grandmothers ruled their homes. My mother went the other way to a great extent because she felt her father wasn't given enough of a voice, but she never just went ahead and did what my dad wanted without question...she required a good reason for it to be done and he was usually able to give her a good reason for his opinion.

I was about to say my parents were also of this generation, but then I realized they were even older than that -- by quite a bit: Dad was born in 1903 and Mom in 1908 (I was the youngest in the family and did not come along until they were well into middle age).

I have to say my mom exerted most of the influence in our upbringing, Church observance, etc., and my dad was content to let her do so. I recall them having rows from time to time, but never anything abusive, and it certainly could not be said that my dad ruled with an iron fist. Mom was a stake Relief Society president for many years while I was alive, had been a gospel doctrine teacher. She was a full-time missionary in the 1920s, called at the age of 19 (contrary to wide belief, that's not unprecedented).

I don't recall her being in any way mousy or subservient.

The hearsay that has been reported here about how things were back in those days does not comport with reality as I experienced it.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[ControlFreak]

It looks like you've dredged up an old JohnW blog post. Since you are newish here, you might like to know that Runtu's Rincon is a blog published by a now-banned member of this forum named John W. I believe the W is for Williams. He was a faithful member of the church, and even worked for a time as an employee of the church, but lost his testimony. He's a writer, I believe. Rather than let the Church be and just move along he spends some effort finding opportunities to knock the Church. I was wondering if he has still not grown out of it, and checking some recent entries in his blog I see that he is still all wrapped around the axle with it.

In his Nov 21, 2012 entry he refers purification rituals and then invents one for Mormonism whose penultimate step is "Treat each day as a clean slate without any Mormonism in it."

I wonder when he is going to follow his own advice finally?

It is old news that Joseph and Emma (the president of the RS) were at odds over plural marriage. And the fact is, all the evidence seems to support this particular claim. I haven't read John W's post, but at least the quotes Tacenda is posting appear to be accurate. Read Volgadon's link to confirm it.

So why go through all the effort of an ad hominem?

[Scott Lloyd]

This is from Richard L. Jensen article in Dialogue, "The Forgotten Relief Societies, 1844-67"

But the original Relief Society was disbanded in early 1844 in the midst of conflicts in southwestern Illinois which threatened to tear the Church apart, conflicts which led to the eventual murder of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. Indeed, Church leaders may well have suspended the Nauvoo relief Society because of lack of confidence in its president, Emma Smith, wife of the Prophet.

In a footnote on that page, Jensen writes the following:

There is some evidence that Emma Smith used the Relief Society to promote opposition to her husband’s teachings about plural marriage. See Minutes of General [Women’s] Meeting, 17 July 1880 in “R.S. Reports,” Women’s Exponent 9 (1 September 1880): 53-54; and Valeen Tippetts Avery “Emma, Joseph, and the Female Relief Society of Nauvoo: Unsuspected Arena for a Power Struggle,” paper presented at Mormon History Association annual meeting, Rexburg, Idaho, 2 May 1981.

[Closet Doubter]

It looks like you've dredged up an old JohnW blog post. Since you are newish here, you might like to know that Runtu's Rincon is a blog published by a now-banned member of this forum named John W. I believe the W is for Williams. He was a faithful member of the church, and even worked for a time as an employee of the church, but lost his testimony. He's a writer, I believe. Rather than let the Church be and just move along he spends some effort finding opportunities to knock the Church. I was wondering if he has still not grown out of it, and checking some recent entries in his blog I see that he is still all wrapped around the axle with it.

Whatever his motives are, it doesn't change the question. Is the Church being honest with their description of why Relief Society was suspended for 20 years or was it really because of the Sister's official renunciation of polygamy even though two of Emma's counselors were already married to Joseph without Emma's knowledge

[Scott Lloyd]

Whatever his motives are, it doesn't change the question. Is the Church being honest with their description of why Relief Society was suspended for 20 years or was it really because of the Sister's official renunciation of polygamy even though two of Emma's counselors were already married to Joseph without Emma's knowledge

Is that the sole reason why it was discontinued? Is there enough evidence of that to accuse the Church of dishonesty?

The quote I presented above from the Dialogue article by Richard L. Jensen, a scholar and research historian, while acknowledging some evidence to that effect, certainly doesn't offer it as the sole or even the main reason.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Scott Lloyd