Why Was The Relief Society Disbanded For 23 Years?

[USU78]

Yup.

Not necessarily. You need to know or pay attention to more history than Cinepro's pickings: There was a whole lot of running and hiding during the 2 years of Nauvoo prior to the Martyrdom.

In any case, the last preserved minutes of the Relief Society are dated in March 1844. Yes, I know it's Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_Society

[Scott Lloyd]

Not necessarily. You need to know or pay attention to more history than Cinepro's pickings: There was a whole lot of running and hiding during the 2 years of Nauvoo prior to the Martyrdom.

In any case, the last preserved minutes of the Relief Society are dated in March 1844. Yes, I know it's Wiki: http://en.wikipedia....Relief_Society

Indeed. The martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum was but the logical progression from the mob hostility and apostate perfidy that had been going on for a long time and that, I'm certain, played havoc with the organization and function of the Church and its administration.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[cinepro]

Not necessarily. You need to know or pay attention to more history than Cinepro's pickings: There was a whole lot of running and hiding during the 2 years of Nauvoo prior to the Martyrdom.

The date of the martyrdom and exodus aren't mine for the picking. If the Relief Society "disbanded" before June 1844, then it's impossible that those events in any way resulted in the dissolution of the Relief Society.

Sure, you can say that the events that led to the martyrdom and exodus also influenced the disbanding of the Relief Society, but that is giving each a common cause, and not establishing one as the cause for the other (which the CES manual pretty clearly tries to do).

Edited March 21, 2013 by cinepro

[Scott Lloyd]

The date of the martyrdom and exodus aren't mine for the picking. If the Relief Society "disbanded" before June 1844, then it's impossible that those events in any way resulted in the dissolution of the Relief Society.

Sure, you can say that the events that led to the martyrdom and exodus also influenced the disbanding of the Relief Society, but that is giving each a common cause, and not establishing one as the cause for the other (which the CES manual pretty clearly tries to do).

And we all know that the CES manual is part of the scriptural canon.

[rpn]

When I read the quotes and history on this thread, I pictured the scene after Emma found out her counselors had been sealed to her dh (who was being pretty vilified at the time). If that is factual, why would there have had to be any formal action to stop the meetings at all. Wouldn't they simply have quit coming, in what would have been awkward circumstances in which they couldn't easily even discuss topics involving women, anyhow?

Edited March 22, 2013 by rpn

[Stargazer]

It is old news that Joseph and Emma (the president of the RS) were at odds over plural marriage. And the fact is, all the evidence seems to support this particular claim. I haven't read John W's post, but at least the quotes Tacenda is posting appear to be accurate. Read Volgadon's link to confirm it.

So why go through all the effort of an ad hominem?

Since when is stating facts about a person an ad hominem? Did I call him names? Accuse him of nefarious crimes? No, I did not. Nothing I wrote was anything other than the truth. And I think Tacenda needs to know the nature of the source of her information.

I once had a very interesting PM conversation with John. He is a very nice guy who has issues regarding the Church. He advised me never to lose my testimony because it was not fun.

And if one of his stated goals is to stop raising Cain about the LDS church, yet still does so with great abandon, it is not at all ad hominemish to point out the inconsistency/contradiction.

[Scott Lloyd]

The date of the martyrdom and exodus aren't mine for the picking. If the Relief Society "disbanded" before June 1844, then it's impossible that those events in any way resulted in the dissolution of the Relief Society.

Sure, you can say that the events that led to the martyrdom and exodus also influenced the disbanding of the Relief Society, but that is giving each a common cause, and not establishing one as the cause for the other (which the CES manual pretty clearly tries to do).

If the martyrdom was not the proximate cause of the discontinuance of Relief Society, I think a reasonable case can be made that it hindered the resumption of Relief Society anytime soon thereafter. It brought on the succession crisis and generally threw the Church into a state of turmoil that only great fortitude could overcome. It took a good 3 1/2 years to reorganize the First Presidency itself, and only after the relocation of the Church en masse to a point some 1,300 miles away

Edited March 22, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[USU78]

If the martyrdom was not the proximate cause of the discontinuance of Relief Society, I think a reasonable case can be made that it hindered the resumption of Relief Society anytime soon thereafter. It brought on the succession crisis and generally threw the Church into a state of turmoil that only great fortitude could overcome. It took a good 3 1/2 years to reorganize the First Presidency itself, and only after the relocation of the Church en masse to appoint some 1,300 miles away

You can't just go making sense of things [survival trumping formal organizations] when there's a nastier spin to be put on things. Have you learned nothing from cinepro over the years?

[wenglund]

The "martyrdom and exodus" was in 1844+. If the Relief Society stopped having meetings in 1842, it's a bit of a stretch to blame it on events that wouldn't happen for several more years.

On the Church's website, Emma is listed as the president of the Relief Society from 1842 to 1844. And, understandably, while she may not have been actively participating as president following the martyrdom of her husband in June of 1844, we know from a letter written by Brigham Young in December of 1844 to the Relief Society presidency (Mrs. Mary Smith and Mercy R. Thompson)--see History of the Church, Vol. 7, Chapt. 24, p.322, that the organization was still in place until the end of 1844. The next president of the Relief Society was Eliza R. Snow. who served from 1866 to 1887.

And, even though there was a 22 year gap in general presidencies of the Relief Society, it is my understanding that there were Relief Societies is various wards and stakes during the intervening years. If memory serves me correctly, Eliza R. Snow was president of one of the local Relief Societies when she was called to the general position.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[USU78]

On the Church's website, Emma is listed as the president of the Relief Society from 1842 to 1844. And, understandably, while she may not have been actively participating as president following the martyrdom of her husband in June of 1844, we know from a letter written by Brigham Young in December of 1844 to the Relief Society presidency (Mrs. Mary Smith and Mercy R. Thompson)--see History of the Church, Vol. 7, Chapt. 24, p.322, that the organization was still in place until the end of 1844. The next president of the Relief Society was Eliza R. Snow. who served from 1866 to 1887.

And, even though there was a 22 year gap in general presidencies of the Relief Society, it is my understanding that there were Relief Societies is various wards and stakes during the intervening years. If memory serves me correctly, Eliza R. Snow was president of one of the local Relief Societies when she was called to the general position.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

That last is what I learned growing up as well, though I cannot point to a specific, published source.

[Scott Lloyd]

You can't just go making sense of things [survival trumping formal organizations] when there's a nastier spin to be put on things. Have you learned nothing from cinepro over the years?

Yay! USU gets it. (As usual).

[ERayR]

When I read the quotes and history on this thread, I pictured the scene after Emma found out her counselors had been sealed to her dh (who was being pretty vilified at the time). If that is factual, why would there have had to be any formal action to stop the meetings at all. Wouldn't they simply have quit coming, in what would have been awkward circumstances in which they couldn't easily even discuss topics involving women, anyhow?

Seems reasonable to me. What does a relief society president who is having trouble with polygamy anyway have to say to her councilors when she finds out they are in the middle of it and sealed to her husband. Probably a little difficult having presidency meetings. Then all that went on after that resulting in the Nauvoo expulsion and moving the Church to the Salt Lake valley and getting things settled.

[Damien the Leper]

Simple. To consolidate and reorganize all power and authority.