Newly Legal Marijuana And Wow

[pogi]

True... and we know the carnage that is caused by drunk drivers... my point was that a person doesn't just smoke a joint (non-medicinal) for the heck of it... the purpose is to get high... are we now going to add MJ consequences to those of drunk driving because MJ use will be more widespread, particularly with younger users. Not all MJ users will be responsible; there will be those who will drive while high just as there are those to drive drunk. But now we will have a double dose on the roads.

Cigarettes have their own set of consequences... cancer and other health issues (My husband and I both had smoker's cough in the mornings and we would cough and hack around the house while we got ready for work. After we quit smoking, about a month later our coughs were waning and finally disappeared altogether) among other health issues.

You are right... each individual is key...

GG

I think that your fears and worries are not based in facts. I am a strong proponent of legalizing MJ (not just for medicinal purposes) for many reasons which I will not get into now.

Here is one of many studies done that might help to calm your fears: http://www1.ucsc.edu/currents/03-04/05-03/drug_study.html

[ERayR]

Legal use for medicinal purposes causes a lot of people to get sick.

[Storm Rider]

The WofW does not address the use of MJ, however, there is other scripture that may apply. Our body is a temple for the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor 6:19. If it is legal to use, obeying the laws of the land in the Articles of Faith would no longer apply. Of course, if the Prophet and the Apostles declare it verboten, then it is also.

In this latter days we will be faced with many decisions about things that are not real decisions, but made to seem that way. Evil will be called good, dark will be called light; does that mean we should be fooled by these things? To me it is simple, there will be many things that will not immediately cause detriment to the Spirit, but they will be a stepping stone, a slipping stone, to the point where it is detrimental to the Spirit. We must be wise in our choices and leave the false questions to those that are seeking to rationalize away their own salvation.

[Duncan]

Marijuana has been well tested and has been found to have far fewer side effects and is more effective in treating certain conditions than many other medicines on the market. Had marijuana been utilized early in history for medicinal purposes and mass marketed by pharmaceutical companies, nobody would even be questioning its use. It would be common place and widely accepted in the church. There is nothing wrong with its medicinal use! Pain meds are far more addictive, with more side effects, and yet we don't even question there use when in pain.

On a side note - When was the WoW ever made a commandment in the first place?

Oct. 1908 General Conference

Edited November 11, 2012 by Duncan

[Storm Rider]

Oct. 1908 General Conference

Some say this, but obedience did not become requirement to enter the temple until the late '20s early '30s.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Storm Rider

[Garden Girl]

I think that your fears and worries are not based in facts. I am a strong proponent of legalizing MJ (not just for medicinal purposes) for many reasons which I will not get into now.

Here is one of many studies done that might help to calm your fears: http://www1.ucsc.edu...drug_study.html

The article did not actually address my "worries"... and does little to calm my fears about those users who... like the drunk driver... will not behave responsibly and refrain from driving, etc while under the effects.

GG

[Duncan]

Some say this, but obedience did not become requirement to enter the temple until the late '20s early '30s.

thanks for the clarification!

[cinepro]

Alcohol and cigarettes are also legal; it has always been understood that recreational drugs are against the Word of Wisdom.

Just to be totally clear, D&C Section 89 specifically mentions "wine" and "strong drinks", as well as "tobacco". That is why it has "always been understood" that they are against the Word of Wisdom.

Ultimately, I suspect the cultural perceptions against marijuana are so deeply entrenched that it will be impossible to untangle them from the doctrine.

[volgadon]

It's been almost two decades since I taught an investigator the word of wisdom as instructed by the missionary discussions. Marijuana came under the umbrella of illegal drugs. Will the Church explicitly state that marijuana is against the word of wisdom now that it's legal in CO and WA? Is it just expected to be understood implicitly, or are members free to make special brownies responsibly as their conscious dictates?

Why is this a new question? The church has been in the Netherlands a very, very long time.

[pogi]

True... and we know the carnage that is caused by drunk drivers... my point was that a person doesn't just smoke a joint (non-medicinal) for the heck of it... the purpose is to get high... are we now going to add MJ consequences to those of drunk driving because MJ use will be more widespread, particularly with younger users. Not all MJ users will be responsible; there will be those who will drive while high just as there are those to drive drunk. But now we will have a double dose on the roads.

I think the article did address some of your concerns. It clearly pointed out that legalizing MJ does not lead to more "widespread" use. In fact MJ users start younger where it is illegal than where it is legal. Legalizing MJ will not create more stoned drivers out on the streets. If someone is responsible enough to not drink and drive, they are not going to suddenly begin driving stoned because MJ is legal now. Responsible people will continue to be responsible, irresponsible people will continue to be irresponsible. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011/12/02/driving-stoned-safer-than-driving-drunk/

[Calm]

Ultimately, I suspect the cultural perceptions against marijuana are so deeply entrenched that it will be impossible to untangle them from the doctrine.

Is there any mind altering substance that is seen as acceptable in your view according to the WoW (or at least the current interpretation of it)?

As long as the WoW is approached as a code for healthy, 'clean' living (even if parts of it are not part of the temple recommend requirements), I don't see any change coming. If it were to become only about setting ourselves apart from the world by living a different standard, then it might be open to change if it was not considered as one of the things to 'mark' us as different.

However, I don't think the WoW has ever been approached as solely a way to mark ourselves as the people of the Lord. It is also a purification code and mind altering substances have never been seen as purifying as they have in some other faith systems.

[DavidB]

Calmoriah, what do define as "mind altering"?

[Calm]

Something that alters the natural state of the mind chemically. They can be very helpful if used medicinally (for depression or anxiety, for instance) but are seen as inappropriate at least by LDS when used for recreational purposes or for enhancing spiritual experiences.

[bcuzbcuz]

My wife and I had a discussion following the American election news regarding the legalization of possession of small amounts of marijuana. We live in a country where no amount of marijuana is considered legal, my wife has never been and will never be Mormon. I have had nothing to do with Mormonism for more than 30 years.

And yet we see no positive outcomes of such a legalization, especially in regards to the changes in youth behavior that such a law change will bring about. The debate should have nothing to do with the WoW. Adding another easily procurable drug to the two, alcohol and tobacco, already available for youth to experiment with, bodes no one well. The cost to society long term will be staggering.

[Bikeemikey]

My wife and I had a discussion following the American election news regarding the legalization of possession of small amounts of marijuana. We live in a country where no amount of marijuana is considered legal, my wife has never been and will never be Mormon. I have had nothing to do with Mormonism for more than 30 years.

And yet we see no positive outcomes of such a legalization, especially in regards to the changes in youth behavior that such a law change will bring about. The debate should have nothing to do with the WoW. Adding another easily procurable drug to the two, alcohol and tobacco, already available for youth to experiment with, bodes no one well. The cost to society long term will be staggering.

Has US society become worse since the rejection of prohibition? Of course society would be better in some respects with out alcohol and tobacco. Perhaps there are some ways that moderates use of these substances is also helpful though.

These factors should have nothing to do with whether it is appropriate for these things to be legal or illegal, however.

As for the medical usage issue... Until the LDS church only calls component medical professionals to the calling of bishop we shouldn't (and likely wont) have bishops contravening the advice of medical professionals. For a bishop with no medical training and no awareness of someone's private medical history or the complex issues around pain management it would seem to be the exercise of unrighteous dominion for a bishop to suggest a medical professionals opinion of the matter should not be followed because they don't like the idea.b

Edited November 11, 2012 by Bikeemikey

[Tacenda]

My wife and I had a discussion following the American election news regarding the legalization of possession of small amounts of marijuana. We live in a country where no amount of marijuana is considered legal, my wife has never been and will never be Mormon. I have had nothing to do with Mormonism for more than 30 years.

And yet we see no positive outcomes of such a legalization, especially in regards to the changes in youth behavior that such a law change will bring about. The debate should have nothing to do with the WoW. Adding another easily procurable drug to the two, alcohol and tobacco, already available for youth to experiment with, bodes no one well. The cost to society long term will be staggering.

Exactly, and the state of Colorado has sold it's soul...all because it gets to tax the revenue now or something along those lines. All for money, and no regard for the youth. Edited November 11, 2012 by Tacenda

[Bikeemikey]

Exactly, and the state of Colorado has sold it's soul...all because it gets to tax the revenue now or something along those lines. All for money, and no regard for the youth.

My understanding I that youth age usage normally goes down, abuse, that is binge consumption, also goes down.

Revenue is increased for law enforcement and recovery programs.

If it is true that usage goes down how is this bad?

Edited November 11, 2012 by Bikeemikey

[pogi]

My wife and I had a discussion following the American election news regarding the legalization of possession of small amounts of marijuana. We live in a country where no amount of marijuana is considered legal, my wife has never been and will never be Mormon. I have had nothing to do with Mormonism for more than 30 years.

And yet we see no positive outcomes of such a legalization, especially in regards to the changes in youth behavior that such a law change will bring about. The debate should have nothing to do with the WoW. Adding another easily procurable drug to the two, alcohol and tobacco, already available for youth to experiment with, bodes no one well. The cost to society long term will be staggering.

I don't know why people are so concerned about the youth in regards to legalizing MJ. Becasue MJ is illegal, it is much easier for a teenager to buy a joint than it is for them to buy a beer. There is no evidence that suggests that usage will increase among youth, infact it all suggest that it will infact decrease. Legalizing MJ will make it a much more controlled substance and more difficult to find on the streets.

If you want to talk about staggering costs to society, just take a close look at the US war on drugs. I am not just talking about dollars, but human lives. More people die from the war on drugs than from drug ussage itself. It is not a winnable war. Where there is a demand, there will always be a supplier. Lives will be saved, and the money that is currently funding deadly drug lords can be used to fund drug education, and addiction recovery programs, along with other beneficial programs for society.

[thesometimesaint]

The last 40 years the US has seen $1 Trillion spent on the unwinnable war on drugs. We could reduce our prison population by well over 1/2 today just by decriminalizing simple nonviolent drug possession.

[pogi]

The war on drugs is focusing on the wrong side of the equation. We should be putting all of our resources into the demand end of the equation rather than the supply end. Legalizing it would greatly help to fund that effort. It is clear that we cannot curb supply, but there is strong evidence to suggest that we can reduce demand significantly. Take a look at the dramatic decline in cigarette usage from the successful education campaigns and programs. That's the kind of success we could see by working at reducing demand rather than supply.

We could reduce unnecessary deaths from the war on drugs, decrease prison population, reduce drug lord power and income, decrease deficit spending and increase tax revenue, and decrease drug usage and demand. This is not theory. Other countries have already led the way and have proven that this is all possible. They even have fewer traffic fatalities, and drug related deaths remain the lowest in Europe. Open your eyes people!

Drugs will continue to be illegal for the youth, it will just be more difficult for them to purchase.

[thesometimesaint]

Pogi:

There's a reason no one gets rich selling buggy whips anymore.

[blackstrap]

With the legalization of drugs MUST come the strong enforcement of laws which condemn and punish those who use and then put society at risk by driving or using machinery .Society has not been firm enough with DUI cases and we still get people with 10 or 20 DUI convictions and wait until such people kill someone before intervening. Drug and alcohol abuse and recovery programs should be widely available and mandatory from those who put the public at risk. Unfortunately ,I don't see that happening.

[Calm]

My understanding I that youth age usage normally goes down, abuse, that is binge consumption, also goes down.

We shall find out if true or not. Hopefully it will.

[Calm]

\ Becasue MJ is illegal, it is much easier for a teenager to buy a joint than it is for them to buy a beer.

While this may be so, I suspect it is easier for a teenager to grab a beer out of the refrig or pantry or whereever it is kept than it is to grab a joint off the kitchen shelf.

More people die from the war on drugs than from drug ussage itself. It is not a winnable war.

CFR please. Edited November 11, 2012 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Pogi:

There's a reason no one gets rich selling buggy whips anymore.

Not sure what your point is....