Tacenda Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 What are your thoughts? The story is, that Joseph Smith and others went exploring the area shortly after arriving in Missouri and came upon an altar (pile of rocks) that Joseph said was the one Adam and Eve used and he renamed an area nearby, called Spring Hill, Adam-ondi-Ahman. And this is where Adam & Eve, as mortals, started their family.My feeling is that Joseph may have made it up to excite and keep the people interested in this new religion or he felt that he was inspired to say this.I read the apologist side on Fairmormon.com and they don't deny that Joseph did this. It just seems incomprehensible to me that it could be true. Of course some believing LDS don't even believe in the Garden of Eden and believe it to be an allegory. So this to them is probably a non issue.
cinepro Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) http://en.fairmormon...den_in_MissouriAlthough we have no contemporaneous record of Joseph Smith teaching explicitly that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, that reading is consistent with LDS scripture, and there is substantial later testimony from Joseph's associates that he did teach such an idea.What Do We Know About the Location of the Garden of Eden?We must remember that the whole earth was paradisiacal before the Fall. The Garden of Eden was a center place. After the Fall, there was no Garden of Eden or paradisiacal status on earth. Yet relative to the locale of the site of the Garden of Eden, the Prophet Joseph Smith learned through revelation (D&C 57) that Jackson County was the location of a Zion to be and the New Jerusalem to come. The Prophet first visited Jackson County, Missouri, in the summer of 1831. The Prophet visited Jackson County again in April and May 1832. On one of the occasions, or perhaps both, the Prophet Joseph apparently instructed his close associates, and perhaps even a general Church gathering, that the ancient Garden of Eden was also located in Jackson County.Not sure what he means by "whole earth"... Edited September 28, 2012 by cinepro
thesometimesaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Where ever the GoE was it isn't there now. 1
Hamilton Porter Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Mormons were expelled from the paradisaical Missouri (where Jesus would reign) like Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. That is all.
shalamabobbi Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Not sure what he means by "whole earth"... It's a product placement plug.Part of a reply from LDS.org I received recently:One, is that many Latter-day Saints, both in the past and today, often offer their opinions and speculations on various biblical subjects - however, to my knowledge the Church has never officially made a statement on this subject (the division of the land during Peleg's day), just as the Church has never officially taken a stand on Evolution, for instance. The Church does not dictate to members what their beliefs should or can be... relatively few doctrines and statements, almost all of which are found in the Standard Works, are claimed by the Church as "official". Latter-day Saints know that there is much we still do not understand or that God has yet revealed to us. We are content to wait. By the way - this also means that we Latter-day Saints are not constrained to believe any and everything any LDS apostle or Church leader ever said, either. This is a misunderstanding that so many non-members and critics of the Church seem unable to comprehend. Sometimes people, even our leaders, are simply voicing their opinions and their own best understanding of what has not been completely revealed to us...Please feel free to snitch to the leadership so that they can quickly correct the apostasy brewing amongst the crowd in charge of LDS.org!
ALarson Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 The church still owns land there for a possible future temple: ( http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/adamondiahman/ )Adam-ondi-Ahman TempleTemple Locale The beautiful site of Adam-ondi-Ahman lies at a bend in the Grand River in northern Missouri, about 70 miles north of Kansas City. On the highest elevation of Spring Hill, 124 feet above Grand River, a temple block was dedicated. No cornerstones were laid or temple constructed, however, as just days later, the Saints were ordered to leave the settlement. The Church has since acquired the site and much of the surrounding area, which is leased to local farmers....The valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman was revealed to Joseph Smith to be the place where Adam blessed his posterity after being driven from the Garden of Eden....Adam-ondi-Ahman is the site of a future grand council where Jesus Christ will meet with His stewards of all dispensations and receive back the keys of the kingdom in preparation for His Second Coming. Only those called to the meeting will know of its occurrence.
Damien the Leper Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Simple LDS mythology. Adam-ondi-Ahman is just a piece of land in Missouri. I don't understand why JS would try to take emphasis off of the Holy Land and surrounding areas and place it on U.S. soil.Interesting theology but hardly worth exploring past a few feet of the surface. 1
yootaw Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 What's more, Brigham Young and other early leaders taught that prior to the fall the earth was not in it's current orbit, but was located near Kolob. I admire the scope of their musings. I do not believe though that the garden of Eden was real, or that this earth was moved to it's current orbit as a consequence if the fall of Adam. 3
guerreiro9 Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) It just seems incomprehensible to me that it could be true.Tacenda, may I ask why it seems incomprehensible that it could be true?Are you referring to the story of Adam and Eve in general, or that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?If you are only referring to the Garden of Eden being in Missouri, then do you have a location in mind that you find more plausible?As far as I am aware the location of the Garden of Eden is unknown (unless you accepted the revelation received by Joseph Smith) and could have been anywhere on Earth.There are many people who assume that it was in the old world somewhere, but there is really no reason to restrict it to the old world from the scriptures. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden and they and their descendants lived somewhat in that same general area until a large flood came carrying Noah's Ark elsewhere. I have seen no indication from the scriptures that Noah's Ark returned to same location it was in before the flood began. He could have been anywhere, and I don't think Missouri is any less plausible than anywhere else.If your concern is with the story of Adam and Eve in general..... well that may require a new thread and a longer post. Edited September 29, 2012 by guerreiro9 1
Rivers Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Tacenda, may I ask why it seems incomprehensible that it could be true?Are you referring to the story of Adam and Eve in general, or that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?If you are only referring to the Garden of Eden being in Missouri, then do you have a location in mind that you find more plausible?As far as I am aware the location of the Garden of Eden is unknown (unless you accepted the revelation received by Joseph Smith) and could have been anywhere on Earth.There are many people who assume that it was in the old world somewhere, but there is really no reason to restrict it to the old world from the scriptures. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden and they and their descendents lived somewhat in that same general area until a large flood came carrying Noah's Arc elsewhere. I have seen no indication from the scriptures that Noah's Arc returned to same location it was in before the flood began. He could have been anywhere, and I don't think Missouri is any less plausible than anywhere else.If your concern is with the story of Adam and Eve in general..... well that may require a new thread and a longer post.The GOE in Missourri causes major problems for those who believe in a local or allegorical flood. They now have to explain how Adam and Eve's descendents made it to the middle east.
ERayR Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 The GOE in Missourri causes major problems for those who believe in a local or allegorical flood. They now have to explain how Adam and Eve's descendents made it to the middle east.Why? 1
Freedom Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Simple LDS mythology. Adam-ondi-Ahman is just a piece of land in Missouri. I don't understand why JS would try to take emphasis off of the Holy Land and surrounding areas and place it on U.S. soil.Interesting theology but hardly worth exploring past a few feet of the surface.It provides two locations - the promised land of the Americas and the promised land of Israel. Why must all the emphasis be on Israel? Doesn't God love all his children?
mfbukowski Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 The GOE in Missourri causes major problems for those who believe in a local or allegorical flood. They now have to explain how Adam and Eve's descendents made it to the middle east.If it's allegorical they don't have to explain anything.I would think that is pretty self-evident.
Freedom Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 The GOE in Missourri causes major problems for those who believe in a local or allegorical flood. They now have to explain how Adam and Eve's descendents made it to the middle east.If it wasn't local, they would have to explain how Adam and Eve's descendants made it to the Americas.
Cobalt-70 Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 Mormons were expelled from the paradisaical Missouri (where Jesus would reign) like Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. That is all.But Smith identified the area in Missouri as the garden of Eden before the Saints were kicked out of Jackson County. That metaphor could not have been what was in Smith's mind at the time.
rodheadlee Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) What's more, Brigham Young and other early leaders taught that prior to the fall the earth was not in it's current orbit, but was located near Kolob. I admire the scope of their musings. I do not believe though that the garden of Eden was real, or that this earth was moved to it's current orbit as a consequence if the fall of Adam.See Kolob Theorem Threadhttp://www.mormondia...-kolob-theorem/post 72 for the KolobTheorem Article Edited September 29, 2012 by rodheadlee
Cobalt-70 Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 Simple LDS mythology. Adam-ondi-Ahman is just a piece of land in Missouri. I don't understand why JS would try to take emphasis off of the Holy Land and surrounding areas and place it on U.S. soil.I do, and he was brilliant for doing so. By claiming the garden of Eden for America, he was plugging into the cultural currents that made Mormonism so appealing to Americans and American-wannabes of the 19th century, and wrapping up the whole world into an America-centered narrative. 1
Sky Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 I have no idea where the Garden of Eden was, but I can tell you that I have been to Adam-ondi-Ahman and it is a beautiful, lush, secluded, peaceful spot in rural Missouri. I've never been to the middle east or mesopotamia, but Missouri looks more like the kind of place where the Garden of Eden might be than present-day Iraq. If only if weren't so terribly hot and humid during the summer...I can understand why many people, including Church members, find this whole thing really questionable or even ridiculous, but there is no denying the significance of the state of Missouri to Mormon theology. Here is some official information on LDS.org.
guerreiro9 Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) The GOE in Missourri causes major problems for those who believe in a local or allegorical flood. They now have to explain how Adam and Eve's descendents made it to the middle east.I don't think that is necessarily the case. Big flood comes and washes Noah and his Ark out to sea -> Ark floats to Middle East. While I can't definitively say this is what happened, I see it as being no more or less plausible than any other explanation of Noah's flood. This also allows for both a global and local flood, the flood could have been global, or it could only have been local, but appeared global to whomever told the story. Same result either way, the Ark starts in the new world and ends in the old (or should those labels be switched......?). Edited September 29, 2012 by guerreiro9
rodheadlee Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 What are your thoughts? The story is, that Joseph Smith and others went exploring the area shortly after arriving in Missouri and came upon an altar (pile of rocks) that Joseph said was the one Adam and Eve used and he renamed an area nearby, called Spring Hill, Adam-ondi-Ahman. And this is where Adam & Eve, as mortals, started their family.My feeling is that Joseph may have made it up to excite and keep the people interested in this new religion or he felt that he was inspired to say this.I read the apologist side on Fairmormon.com and they don't deny that Joseph did this. It just seems incomprehensible to me that it could be true. Of course some believing LDS don't even believe in the Garden of Eden and believe it to be an allegory. So this to them is probably a non issue.Why is it incomprehensible? I don't know that Joseph stated that the Garden of Eden was there because they started their family outside of the Garden.
Tacenda Posted September 29, 2012 Author Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) Why is it incomprehensible? I don't know that Joseph stated that the Garden of Eden was there because they started their family outside of the Garden.According to JS they started their family nearby in Spring Hill. So think of Cain and Abel growing up there. No where near the place the rest of the world believes it was. Edited September 29, 2012 by Tacenda
ERayR Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 I do, and he was brilliant for doing so. By claiming the garden of Eden for America, he was plugging into the cultural currents that made Mormonism so appealing to Americans and American-wannabes of the 19th century, and wrapping up the whole world into an America-centered narrative.Which poll would have given him that information?
Rivers Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 Haven't church leaders taught that the entire earth was an eden-like state? If that's the case, why is it important that the Garden of Eden is in any specific location?
ERayR Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 According to JS they started their family nearby in Spring Hill. So think of Cain and Abel growing up there. No where near the place the rest of the world believes it was.And why is what the rest of the world believes important or how does it discredit what Joseph said>
ERayR Posted September 29, 2012 Posted September 29, 2012 Haven't church leaders taught that the entire earth was an eden-like state? If that's the case, why is it important that the Garden of Eden is in any specific location?Can't be. When they were cast out it was to a world of Choas.
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