thesometimesaint Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Can truth change?Truth? No. The appropriate application of that truth Yes. I like Italian Prosciutto, but last I looked the O.T. outlaws it. Thank you Prophets and Apostles of the N.T.
thesometimesaint Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Valentinus:Where can I find "14 fundamentals" in my D&C? Edited October 2, 2012 by thesometimesaint
volgadon Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Since the 14 fundamentals of the church were recognized as a hoax to safeguard the authority that is claimed by the LDS church.A hoax? Are you sure that is the word you are looking for? I don't agree withmuch of the Fourteen Fundamentals, but I'm not sure it is at all a hoax.
volgadon Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I know that Otis Redding sang "I left my home in Georgia ..." but isn't the bulk of "Sittiin' on the Dock of the Bay" about San Francisco?Don't want to be a killjoy, PaPa. Just sayin'.It is talking about someone sitting in Frisco, feeling lonely and missing Georgia. I think that is what Pa Pa was getting at.
mfbukowski Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 You highlight the overall problem with falsifiability well. No matter, we can always come up with an ad hoc solution that keeps our theory going even in the face of evidence that appears to falsify it. If one doesn't want to give up one's belief, there is no evidence in the world that can do so, even if one is claiming to be reasonable. Ad hoc solutions destroyed Popper's dream of a perfectly deductively valid falsifiable science.Exactly.That is one of the reasons I say that science has absolutely nothing with religion. It really does not because there is always another way to make an interpretation- another possible narrative which will explain both, and another way to see the data.All of human activity is creative - we are creating worlds here you know- through the Word. Isn't that what gods in embryo do? Like our Father does on an infinitely bigger scale? After all isn't that what it says in the New Testament? That all that was created was created by the Word??That's not some coy little slogan or cryptic symbolic Great Mystery- if I take anything literally I take that pretty literally. But of course it is itself a metaphysical statement.To me it is about organizing matter unorganized by the power of the Word as an activity of God, who is a human infinitely glorified and perfected above us, but human nevertheless, and I see that as direct LDS doctrine.I don't see how you can take it any other way.But of course that is non-falsifiable - so we have come full circle. 1
mfbukowski Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 “Revolution is a serious thing, the most serious thing about a revolutionary's life. When one commits oneself to the struggle, it must be for a lifetime.” -Angela DavisIs this for my benefit?
mfbukowski Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 It is talking about someone sitting in Frisco, ...Uh oh.Don't ever say that to a San Franciscan. You can call it "San Francisco" or even just "The City" but NEVER "Frisco". I recall being on Sunset Strip in the 60's - in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world- LA- and hearing people talk about going "up to The City" for the weekend.But maybe that's changed- my hippness has all gone to my hips anyway!
mfbukowski Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Can truth change?Every day.Is Pluto a planet? How many planets ARE there today anyway? Ever said hello to a Higgs boson particle?And where is that dark matter stuff anyway? I just can't see it anywhere! And thank God slaves are no longer less than fully human. In fact they no longer exist. Where did they go? I guess the same place Limbo did.Just re-define something, and you change truth. 1
Vance Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 You highlight the overall problem with falsifiability well. No matter, we can always come up with an ad hoc solution that keeps our theory going even in the face of evidence that appears to falsify it. If one doesn't want to give up one's belief, there is no evidence in the world that can do so, even if one is claiming to be reasonable. Ad hoc solutions destroyed Popper's dream of a perfectly deductively valid falsifiable science.Well said.For some reason it makes me think of the word "mystery".
Calm Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Interesting theory but it is a very big stretch of the imagination. Scripture does nothing to promote such an idea. The LDS lean to heavily on this fictional "apostasy". No one apostatized. All that happened was continuing reinterpretation of the faith traditions.An interesting point of view given your previous insistence that Judeo-Christian faiths should stay centered in the ME where they originated.Is change/reinterpretation okay or not?
Calm Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Too bad the LDS church doesn't use the word "dogma." It carries a much greater weight behind it than just "doctrine."Besides, then you could say of all those who believe opposite of the dogma: "let him be anathema."That's powerful, too Words definitely have Power.
Calm Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Uh oh.Don't ever say that to a San Franciscan. You can call it "San Francisco" or even just "The City" but NEVER "Frisco". I recall being on Sunset Strip in the 60's - in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world- LA- and hearing people talk about going "up to The City" for the weekend.But maybe that's changed- my hippness has all gone to my hips anyway!A true Californian is a Northern Californian.
mfbukowski Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 A true Californian is a Northern Californian.OOOO burrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnn........ ! 1
rodheadlee Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Every day.Is Pluto a planet? How many planets ARE there today anyway? Ever said hello to a Higgs boson particle?And where is that dark matter stuff anyway? I just can't see it anywhere! And thank God slaves are no longer less than fully human. In fact they no longer exist. Where did they go? I guess the same place Limbo did.Just re-define something, and you change truth.Truth doesn't change. Our perception of it, our vocabulary to describe it and our awarness of truth changes. If we see something how Heavenly Father sees it then we see Truth and it will not change.
Damien the Leper Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 By the same token, rejection by unbelievers does not automatically invalidate it. That's every bit as presumptuous as you say I'm being.I didn't suggest that it did.I don't concede that latter-day revelation, as taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has contradicted or overturned God. Indeed, I assert that God is the author of latter-day revelation, just as in ancient days.So then maybe God is contradicting GodWhether or not latter-day revelation holds substantial merit is a matter of faith. Matters of faith cannot be falsified merely by declaring that they don't hold merit.You're right. But by the same token it doesn't prove anything either.The concept of a general apostasy presupposes that there is much truth that over the ages has lost from the view of the ancient and modern Judeo-Christian world.Fine but there isn't a church thus far that has restored lost truths.
Damien the Leper Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Valentinus:Where can I find "14 fundamentals" in my D&C?You can't. It was a silly talk given at General Conference.
Damien the Leper Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 A hoax? Are you sure that is the word you are looking for? I don't agree withmuch of the Fourteen Fundamentals, but I'm not sure it is at all a hoax.Yes. It's kinda like the former "Don't Ask. Don't Tell." policy. It safeguards itself from criticism and asserts its own authority.
Cobalt-70 Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Truth doesn't change. Our perception of it, our vocabulary to describe it and our awarness of truth changes. If we see something how Heavenly Father sees it then we see Truth and it will not change.Truth is by definition anything that is true, and not false.The only things that may be true or false are sentences.All sentences can change.Therefore, truth can change. QED
Damien the Leper Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Is this for my benefit?If you'd like for it to be it can.
Damien the Leper Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 An interesting point of view given your previous insistence that Judeo-Christian faiths should stay centered in the ME where they originated.Is change/reinterpretation okay or not?Please don't twist what I said. That previous post was addressing the insignificance of the U.S. concerning eschatology.If churches want to reinterpret then they will. Inserting the U.S. into part of Christian eschatology isn't reinterpretation. It's falsification.
rodheadlee Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Truth is by definition anything that is true, and not false.The only things that may be true or false are sentences.All sentences can change.Therefore, truth can change. QEDExcept for number 4, that is what I said. You are not changing truth, just the description of it.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) It is talking about someone sitting in Frisco, feeling lonely and missing Georgia. I think that is what Pa Pa was getting at.Not to be argumentative, but I can't think of a line in there that talks about him missing Georgia. On the contrary, I get the impression he left Georgia in search of happiness and fulfillment but failed to find it in San Francisco, so now he's lonely, tired, frustrated and miserable."I have nothing to live for,"And it looks like nothing's going to come my way."If he were missing Georgia and perhaps dreaming of going back, he would at least have that to live for. Edited October 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I am unashamed to say I believe the GofE was, in deed, in Jackson County, MO. with its very center point being the Temple Lot, currently owned by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). There a Temple will be built, and the throne of our Heavenly Father find its eternal resting place.
Damien the Leper Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I am unashamed to say I believe the GofE was, in deed, in Jackson County, MO. with its very center point being the Temple Lot, currently owned by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). There a Temple will be built, and the throne of our Heavenly Father find its eternal resting place.I am fascinated by the Mormon/Restoration orthodoxy that is taught and believed by the Restoration Branches. It is strange how much the LDS have shifted in their theology where Restorationism is concerned.I don't agree with you but I'm fascinated nonetheless. If I could financially help the Temple Lot build the temple they had drafted I would. But I would do so only to see that nothing is really going to happen afterward.
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