The Nehor Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 I thought I recalled that Footwashing is a part of the Apostolic calling, and is performed by the President of the Church on their entrance into that Quorum. Does that sound familiar to anyone?Yes but in a distorted form. It is not limited to the Apostles.
Cobalt-70 Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 That particular ordinance was part of the process of admission to the school of prophets; and as far as I know a schools of prophets is not organized in the Church today; therefore that particular ordinance would not be administered in the Church at the present time.It was part of the School of the Prophets endowment. However, it is also part of the second anointing ceremony, which is open only to general authorities and their wives, and other couples who are deemed ready to have their "calling and election made sure."
Freedom Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 if this ordinance is performed, it is not made public, nor is it explained. The endowment, if introduced, would have been taught in the temple. Since the endowment is a continuation of the ritual carried out in the Old testament (ie Ex 29) then it would not have been introduced, but rather altered to meet the new covenant. The Christians continued to worship in the temple and there is no indication that they created their own place of worship so it was not considered by them to be a new religion, just a correction of the old religion.
zerinus Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) It was part of the School of the Prophets endowment. However, it is also part of the second anointing ceremony, which is open only to general authorities and their wives, and other couples who are deemed ready to have their "calling and election made sure."It may be part of a lot of things; but the particular passage in the D&C that the OP was referring to relates specifically to the organization of the school of prophets; and therefore it is no longer administered today for that particular purpose, because the school of prophets is no longer organized---as far as I can tell. Edited September 12, 2012 by zerinus
Freedom Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 It was part of the School of the Prophets endowment. However, it is also part of the second anointing ceremony, which is open only to general authorities and their wives, and other couples who are deemed ready to have their "calling and election made sure."Do you have a reference for this? I have never heard of this and to my knowledge, there is nothing written about the second anointing. Why would general authorities be any more eligible for such an anointing than any other worthy member of the church?
Sevenbak Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Do Mormons believe that Jesus instituted the endowment ceremony at the Last Supper then?As I understand it, it was part of the teachings during the 40 days he spent with the faithful after His resurrection.Here's a snippet from a FARMS article, by Kent Brown, which delves into some of the Apocrypha."Many of these documents provide a time reference to the 40-day ministry when they claim to contain teachings of the Living Jesus. In this literature the word "living" is often a technical term that refers to the resurrected and glorified Christ."..."The Gospel of Thomas begins: "These are the secret words which the Living Jesus spoke," and Thomas the Contender begins with the "secret words that Jesus spoke to Judas-Thomas." The Apocryphon of John opens with "the secret teachings" and Second Jeu has an entire page devoted to a charge by Jesus to his disciples that they "not give these things for anything of the world." It is obvious that the people who wrote or copied these documents did not intend for them to become widely read."http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=109 Edited September 12, 2012 by Sevenbak
Storm Rider Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 It was part of the School of the Prophets endowment. However, it is also part of the second anointing ceremony, which is open only to general authorities and their wives, and other couples who are deemed ready to have their "calling and election made sure."Nope, that be incorrect. The Second Annointing is open to more individuals than General Authorities. Further, the act of washing the feet of others is done in other circumstances in the Church.
tyler90az Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Did they not replace feet washing with a more practical washing in the Temple? It was in Kirtland and they replaced it with something else? Maybe I am way off...
cesc101 Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Do Mormons believe that Jesus instituted the endowment ceremony at the Last Supper then?Are you referring to the "sacrament" {according to you} of foot washing, Or "endowment" as per LDS general usage?{am confused}
Antoni Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 thanks for all the further comments etc.I'm not sure if I think it is a sacrament, I was just intrigued by what I'd read in D&C. I'm aware other churches do have ceremonies/occasions for foot washing and I wondered what the LDS did.I can see why it may be reserved for the GA/Quorum of 12 and why a more practical washing occurs now as part of the endowment.
Stargazer Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Are you referring to the "sacrament" {according to you} of foot washing, Or "endowment" as per LDS general usage?{am confused}I'm confused as to what you're asking (or not) here.I recommend the Wikipedia article on "Sacrament" for a general description of the topic; also for you, your Holiness.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Hi,I was reading D&C's last night (forgive me I'm not sure which one as I'm now away from home and so can't check). In it it spoke of the ordinance of foot washing.I've always been interested that Christians follow Christ's command to observe the sacrament but not his command to wash each others feet.This D&C seemed to suggest the LDS sees it as an ordinance.I'm still a newbie and an invstigator, so wondered if anyone here can expand on if there is a current practise of this ordinance?ThanksIn my church and my wife's church (Baptist) they did, but this was usually among the Pastors and Deacons.
MiserereNobis Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Are you referring to the "sacrament" {according to you} of foot washing, Or "endowment" as per LDS general usage?{am confused}I was following the line of thought that said that foot washing was part of the endowment ceremony (part of the washings and annointings I assume). Since Jesus washed the feet of His disciples at the Last Supper, I was curious if that line of thought meant that Jesus instituted the endowment during the Last Supper.I never referred to the washing of feet as a Sacrament -- it clearly is not.Someone else followed up by saying that the endowment was given after Jesus' resurrection, so my question has been answered.I recommend the Wikipedia article on "Sacrament" for a general description of the topic; also for you, your Holiness.Why use wikipedia when you can go straight to the Catechism? Table of ContentsSacramental EconomyThe Seven Sacraments
Calm Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Why use wikipedia when you can go straight to the Catechism? Totally.
Kenngo1969 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 If footwashing as an ordinance is part of the Second Anointing, I'm unlikely to find out about it anytime soon. That having been said, I cannot think of a better act to symbolize the fact that he that is greatest among you should be your servant. In my mind, it certainly puts the lie to the proposition that men should (or do) use the Priesthood as an excuse to "lord it over women."
Cobalt-70 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Do you have a reference for this? I have never heard of this and to my knowledge, there is nothing written about the second anointing. Why would general authorities be any more eligible for such an anointing than any other worthy member of the church?Most Mormons have never heard of it. It is super-secret ordinance for the Mormon elite, but it is mentioned obliquely in the D&C. See this Dialogue article for a good introduction. Edited September 13, 2012 by Cobalt-70
Cobalt-70 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Nope, that be incorrect. The Second Annointing is open to more individuals than General Authorities. Further, the act of washing the feet of others is done in other circumstances in the Church.You misread what I wrote. I said it was open to general authorities and their wives, "and other couples who are deemed ready to have their 'calling and election made sure.'"
zerinus Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) I was following the line of thought that said that foot washing was part of the endowment ceremony (part of the washings and annointings I assume). Since Jesus washed the feet of His disciples at the Last Supper, I was curious if that line of thought meant that Jesus instituted the endowment during the Last Supper.The foot washing has never been part of the endowment ceremony. It is not part of the "washing and annointing" that precedes the endowment ceremony either. Neither is that "washing and anointing" part of the endowment ceremony. They are two separate things. The foot washing is part of another ceremony that comes after the endowment (followed by sealing/eternal marriage) ceremony, and is rarely administered in the Church today. And the foot washing that is mentioned in the D&C in conjunction with the organization of the school of prophets is a different thing again entirely. Did I confuse you enough? Edited September 13, 2012 by zerinus
Storm Rider Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 You misread what I wrote. I said it was open to general authorities and their wives, "and other couples who are deemed ready to have their 'calling and election made sure.'"Your focus was it being "super secret" and for general authorities. The facts are that the vast majority who receive the second annointing are not general authorities. As is often the case, you were distorting reality to fit your opinion.
Cobalt-70 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 The foot washing has never been part of the endowment ceremony. It is not part of the "washing and annointing" that precedes the endowment ceremony either. Neither is that "washing and anointing" part of the endowment ceremony. They are two separate things. The foot washing is part of another ceremony that comes after the endowment (followed by sealing/eternal marriage) ceremony, and is rarely administered in the Church today. And the foot washing that is mentioned in the D&C in conjunction with the organization of the school of prophets is a different thing again entirely. Did I confuse you enough?The endowment is in the New Testament, but it's in the book of Acts. It was what happened on the day of Pentecost (see Luke 24:49), and it wasn't a ceremony in the same sense as the modern Masonic temple endowment. (It was more like the Kirtland temple endowment.) If the endowment happened at the Last Supper, then Jesus would not have been speaking in the future tense after his resurrection when he referred to the endowment.
Cobalt-70 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Your focus was it being "super secret" and for general authorities. The facts are that the vast majority who receive the second annointing are not general authorities. As is often the case, you were distorting reality to fit your opinion.How do you know that? The church is obviously not publishing statistics. I have heard rumors that there has been an uptick in the ceremony over the last several years, but I don't know of any way to verify that. I would be happy to learn that the ceremony is truly making a comeback. It is a great reward for a life of service in the church, so long as there is a realistic possibility that you can participate, short of becoming a general authority.
Storm Rider Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 How do you know that? The church is obviously not publishing statistics. I have heard rumors that there has been an uptick in the ceremony over the last several years, but I don't know of any way to verify that. I would be happy to learn that the ceremony is truly making a comeback. It is a great reward for a life of service in the church, so long as there is a realistic possibility that you can participate, short of becoming a general authority.It is an ordinance that exists. It has nothing to do with one's calling of election made sure. Every ordinance performed in a temple is recorded. There are many ways to know things and it is irrelevant how I know about some things within the Church. This is an ordinance that is used for purpose. Elder Eyring spoke at a priesthood leadership meeting several years ago where he enouraged all to seek to make their calling of election. This is a call for holiness and righteousness to those who serve in the priesthood. It would be a mistake to think that he was urging individuals to pursue this specific ordinance. There is nothing more worthwhile, more gratifying than to seek that caliber of relationship with our Father in Heaven and his Son that as we pass from this life we hear, "Well done thou good and faithful servant". If the saints should seek for reward, it would be that.
Cobalt-70 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Elder Eyring spoke at a priesthood leadership meeting several years ago where he enouraged all to seek to make their calling of election. This is a call for holiness and righteousness to those who serve in the priesthood. It would be a mistake to think that he was urging individuals to pursue this specific ordinance. There is nothing more worthwhile, more gratifying than to seek that caliber of relationship with our Father in Heaven and his Son that as we pass from this life we hear, "Well done thou good and faithful servant". If the saints should seek for reward, it would be that.Eyring is reverting back to a pre-1840s theology of "calling and election made sure," which was not associated with an ordinance. See, e.g., DYC 53:1, 76:53, 88:3-4. However, by D&C 124:28 & 124 and 132:7, 18, 19, 26, the assurance of salvation became associated with an ordinance (called the "fulness of the priesthood" in D&C 124:28). When Joseph Smith introduced the second anointing, its purpose was to seal a person's salvation upon him or her by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Participants are literally sealed to their salvation, not merely "through [their] faithfulness," and their calling and election is made sure. They are assured salvation unless they become a son of perdition.
Storm Rider Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Eyring is reverting back to a pre-1840s theology of "calling and election made sure," which was not associated with an ordinance. See, e.g., DYC 53:1, 76:53, 88:3-4. However, by D&C 124:28 & 124 and 132:7, 18, 19, 26, the assurance of salvation became associated with an ordinance (called the "fulness of the priesthood" in D&C 124:28). When Joseph Smith introduced the second anointing, its purpose was to seal a person's salvation upon him or her by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Participants are literally sealed to their salvation, not merely "through [their] faithfulness," and their calling and election is made sure. They are assured salvation unless they become a son of perdition.They are no more assured their salvation than anyone else. It is an ordinance with promises; just as the endowment is.I disagree as far as attempting to portray Eyring's comments as "reverting"; the Church had never left the position. There has always been a scriptural teaching of a Calling of Election. There has been a second annointing for some time. There is no reverting, no changing; it is what it has always been.
Lamanite Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 To Cobalt and Storm RIder:IMO, you would both be a little better informed if you took the time to pick through "The Development of LDS Temple Worship, 1846-2000: A Documentary History. Anderson, D." It contains all the info about what the 2nd anointing is and why it diminished in numbers and frequency. From your posts it's obvious your both missing bits and pieces of the whole picture.Big UP!Lamanite
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