6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 This is false. It has nothing to do with degree of righteousness. It has to do with function in the church; function does not equal righteousness. You are incorrect. I have family members who received the ordinance when they had no calling. Of course, they were former SPs and MPs etc... but to suggest that only Church leaders as a matter of function is simply wrong. To have one's calling and election made sure is purely a function of righteousness. The Endowment makes this abundantly clear.
6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 This is more accurate. No. This is precisely accurate.
6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Can you please elaborate on "function in the church"? It has nothing to do with function. Any member can receive if if nominated by someone who has also received it and approved by the FP.
Storm Rider Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Can you please elaborate on "function in the church"? This is an ordinance that is highly limited simple because of who performs the ordinance. I think you might hear a number of opinions about why it is provided and who obtains the Second Anointing. If you asking for my personal opinion it would center around why some leaders receive it and others don't. Those who receive have responsibilities that when well done and more responsibilities are required are provided this ordinance. Some members can get exercised because of the limited number of those who obtain it. It has nothing to do with obtaining one's calling of election as I said above. That is open to all without limit and, in my opinion, is far more important and infinitely more spiritual because it is centered on the individual and the Savior. I apologize for being vague; this is a sacred topic and I am trying to be respectful. 1
Storm Rider Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 You are incorrect. I have family members who received the ordinance when they had no calling. Of course, they were former SPs and MPs etc... but to suggest that only Church leaders as a matter of function is simply wrong. To have one's calling and election made sure is purely a function of righteousness. The Endowment makes this abundantly clear. Let's say that I doubt your word. Those that receive, do not talk about it lightly or easily. It would not be broadcast at the family reunion. I will not debate this issue with you; your actions on this Board cause me to doubt you on many levels. The Second Anointing is not receiving your calling of election. 2
Silhouette Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 This is an ordinance that is highly limited simple because of who performs the ordinance. I think you might hear a number of opinions about why it is provided and who obtains the Second Anointing.If you asking for my personal opinion it would center around why some leaders receive it and others don't. Those who receive have responsibilities that when well done and more responsibilities are required are provided this ordinance.Some members can get exercised because of the limited number of those who obtain it. It has nothing to do with obtaining one's calling of election as I said above. That is open to all without limit and, in my opinion, is far more important and infinitely more spiritual because it is centered on the individual and the Savior. I apologize for being vague; this is a sacred topic and I am trying to be respectful.It's all right, I can see where this is a sacred topic. I was just interested in it because it's something new that I'd never heard of before. What a marvelous blessing to be a recipient of this ordinance.
6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Let's say that I doubt your word. Those that receive, do not talk about it lightly or easily. It would not be broadcast at the family reunion. I will not debate this issue with you; your actions on this Board cause me to doubt you on many levels. The Second Anointing is not receiving your calling of election. You can doubt all you want. Doesn't matter to me. I made no claims as to how I know about my family member, what their specific relation is to me etc... But, given the sacredness of the topic and, as you say, the hesitance to make such things public, I will say I didn't find out about it during the family reunion bingo game. Oh.... and doubt me all you want. I'm more interested in people addressing my arguments. And, given the sacredness of the ordinance I certainly won't/can't share details of the ceremony but suffice it say that indeed, receiving the SA is having one's calling and election made sure. There are plenty of good historical documents that paint a picture of how the ordinance used to be practiced. Heber J. Kimball has a pretty detailed description of the experience IIRC. But I don't know of any modern accounts -- other than Tom Phillips -- and given his antagonism towards the Prophet and that his description isn't corroborated, I don't put much stock in it.
Silhouette Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 You can doubt all you want. Doesn't matter to me. I made no claims as to how I know about my family member, what their specific relation is to me etc... But, given the sacredness of the topic and, as you say, the hesitance to make such things public, I will say I didn't find out about it during the family reunion bingo game.Oh.... and doubt me all you want. I'm more interested in people addressing my arguments.And, given the sacredness of the ordinance I certainly won't/can't share details of the ceremony but suffice it say that indeed, receiving the SA is having one's calling and election made sure.There are plenty of good historical documents that paint a picture of how the ordinance used to be practiced. Heber J. Kimball has a pretty detailed description of the experience IIRC. But I don't know of any modern accounts -- other than Tom Phillips -- and given his antagonism towards the Prophet and that his description isn't corroborated, I don't put much stock in it.Do you have a reference or a link to Heber J. Kimball's description? This topic fascinates me.
6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Do you have a reference or a link to Heber J. Kimball's description? This topic fascinates me. I don't think I'm allowed to link to it on this board because even though it is in Heber's publicly available journal, it is temple content. But go to Dialogue. An article was written on the subject: "The Fulness of the Priesthood":The Second Anointing in Latter-day Saint Theology and Practice This article gives a really good/interesting historical overview and some details on the experience from the early Brethren. Edited October 24, 2014 by 6EQUJ5
The Nehor Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Then those who happen to be lucky enough to get it are VERY lucky. Hopefully the rest of us can receive it in the eternities.Luck has nothing to do with it. 2
JLHPROF Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 No, it is absolutely not a requirement for exaltation by or for anyone. The Second Anointing is only possible for a very few because of the demands of who can administer the ordinance. It has more to do with those in leadership positions in temples and General Authorities and the demands placed upon them than with their exaltation. Video, the Second Anointing is an ordinance, but it does not control those who have their calling of election made sure. These are two separate things and you have as much opportunity to seek after your own calling of election as the next individual. I disagree with this statement. If this ordinance was not essential, it would not be performed by proxy. Anyone who passed away without it would not need to have it performed. And as I've described before:1st anointing - Calling (to prepare for ordination at a future time)2nd anointing - Election (chosen and ordained)Made Sure - Hands of the Savior placed on your head - well done my good and faithful servant. Hence, many are called but few are chosen.
Storm Rider Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 I disagree with this statement. If this ordinance was not essential, it would not be performed by proxy. Anyone who passed away without it would not need to have it performed. And as I've described before:1st anointing - Calling (to prepare for ordination at a future time)2nd anointing - Election (chosen and ordained)Made Sure - Hands of the Savior placed on your head - well done my good and faithful servant. Hence, many are called but few are chosen. The teaching of calling of election was instituted long before the Second Anointing. All I can tell you is they are separate and one is not dependent upon the other.
JLHPROF Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 The teaching of calling of election was instituted long before the Second Anointing. All I can tell you is they are separate and one is not dependent upon the other. True...sort of.Yes, Calling and Election Made Sure and the Second Anointing are NOT the same thing.But they are directly related. 1
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) In what situations nowadays would this take place in the temple? And what sets people apart to be able to receive this ordinance? I'd never heard of it until this thread. Are people who don't have this ordinance done somehow missing out on certain blessings? What blessings come to those who have this done as opposed to those who don't?Those who do not receive it here will receive it on the other side, or so a temple president told me. He believed- and I emphasize the word believed, because he told me he did not know how this works- that it is part of the entry into paradise after death. No unclean thing can enter paradise, and men are only made clean "through their faithfulness" on this side of the veil. Also it is all my personal speculation, so who knows if I am right. The spirit told me to edit this. Check your email, or pm me if you like Edited October 24, 2014 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Calling and Election made sure is when the Holy Spirit of Promise seals one up into exaltation, and is a personal revelation, or so I understand. It is nothing for us real people to worry about. If we qualify we will know. But it is something for all of us to work toward. 1
mfbukowski Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 This is an ordinance that is highly limited simple because of who performs the ordinance. I think you might hear a number of opinions about why it is provided and who obtains the Second Anointing. If you asking for my personal opinion it would center around why some leaders receive it and others don't. Those who receive have responsibilities that when well done and more responsibilities are required are provided this ordinance. Some members can get exercised because of the limited number of those who obtain it. It has nothing to do with obtaining one's calling of election as I said above. That is open to all without limit and, in my opinion, is far more important and infinitely more spiritual because it is centered on the individual and the Savior. I apologize for being vague; this is a sacred topic and I am trying to be respectful. Agreed completely. What he said.
6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Luck has nothing to do with it. Then why the nomination process? You could be the most righteous person in the world but if you didn't know someone who had received the ordinance you would never get the chance. Of course there is some element of luck. But as others have pointed out, this is not a required ordinance for the vast vast vast vast majority of us at this time.
JLHPROF Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Calling and Election made sure is when the Holy Spirit of Promise seals one up into exaltation, and is a personal revelation, or so I understand.. Edit - D&C 132:18 "sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power" - the Holy Spirit of Promise works through the Lord's representative on earth. To be sealed up to exaltation by the Holy Spirit of Promise is your Second Anointing, not a revelation. The testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy, therefore, the more sure word of prophecy is the more sure testimony of Christ - aka the Second Comforter, the visitation of Christ confirming the sealing you received during your second anointing. This IS a revelation. You are given the first and then wait for the second. Both are necessary. THAT is your Calling and Election Made Sure. ---------------------------------------------------------- It's surprising how many strange ideas there are about 2nd Anointings vs Calling & Election. All the information is available in scriptures, historical documents, and prophetic teachings. It really is a simple to understand 3 step process: 1. Your endowment/anointing2. Your second endowment/anointing3. The "making sure" or confirming of all the blessings received in the first two by the Savior himself. And you don't get to skip from # 1 to #3, else how could the Savior confirm/make sure something you haven't received. And all three will be mandatory for all those who are exalted, whether in this life or the next. Edited October 24, 2014 by JLHPROF
The Nehor Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Then why the nomination process? You could be the most righteous person in the world but if you didn't know someone who had received the ordinance you would never get the chance. Of course there is some element of luck. But as others have pointed out, this is not a required ordinance for the vast vast vast vast majority of us at this time.I have just enough faith that God can arrange the circumstances of he wants someone to get this ordinance. 1
6EQUJ5 Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 I have just enough faith that God can arrange the circumstances of he wants someone to get this ordinance. Sure. God manages every miniscule detail of our life. We have no agency.
Calm Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Sure. God manages every miniscule detail of our life. We have no agency.False dichotomy. God occasionally arranging things is one possible variation between the two extremes of managing every detail and no involvement. 1
The Nehor Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Sure. God manages every miniscule detail of our life. We have no agency.Yep, that is exactly what I said only not. 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Oh I'll never be worthy of that. No wonder probably it's reserved for General Authorities and high leadership position people. Makes sense. Hopefully the rest of us can receive it during the millennium or something.listen to conference. It's not the Spirit of the Lord telling you that 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 25, 2014 Posted October 25, 2014 Sure. God manages every miniscule detail of our life. We have no agency.oh ye of little faith. Why would God have to micro manage our lives to put people in our lives to bless us? 1
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