Spokesperson - I'M Not Feeling The Honesty

[maxrep12]

University cafeteria's are businesses. If selling caffeinated beverages is a money-losing proposition because students and staff are not purchasing them, then the explanation given makes sense.

And this is precisely the scenario Carri painted. Lets explore this more, Grimace. You may be the only forum member who would propose that diet coke would not be a profitable item.

Lets say the BYU bookstore had drink coolers by the registers, and that the dorms had drink vending machines. If these sale venues generated "x" amount of income per month with only caffeine free items, what multiplier would you then use to reflect the same monthly sales figures if diet coke, mountain dew, etc, were made available?

Lets say you yourself owned these vending machines and that the profits were yours. How would your bottom line change with the addition of the real coke?

Edited September 2, 2012 by maxrep12

[maxrep12]

Those kids can head over to Smiths to buy Coke.

Is it only non members who buy real coke over at Smiths? According to Carri, BYU has already concluded that their Mormons don't really want the coke.

[MorningStar]

And this is precisely the scenario Carri painted. Lets explore this more, Grimace. You may be the only forum member who would propose that diet coke would not be a profitable item.

Lets say the BYU bookstore had drink coolers by the registers, and that the dorms had drink vending machines. If these sale venues generated "x" amount of income per month with only caffeine free items, what multiplier would you then use to reflect the same monthly sales figures if diet coke, mountain dew, etc, were made available?

Lets say you yourself owned these vending machines and that the profits were yours. How would your bottom line change with the addition of the real coke?

There is only so much space in a vending machine. If the majority doesn't want caffeine, valuable space would be used when they could have been selling more non-caffeinated beverages.

Edited September 2, 2012 by MorningStar

[MorningStar]

Is it only non members who buy real coke over at Smiths? According to Carri, BYU has already concluded that their Mormons don't really want the coke.

I think most of them don't, but no one is going to get kicked out of BYU for drinking it or lose their temple recommend.

[Flyonthewall]

Sounds like the making of a story about a strawman climbing a mountain the size of a molehill...

Is there any evidence that BYU has never had any feedback about caffenated drinks?

[Calm]

Does it get tiresome excusing bad behaviour?

I wouldn't know. Does it get tiresome making mountains out of molehills so much? Edited September 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Lets say the BYU bookstore had drink coolers by the registers, and that the dorms had drink vending machines. If these sale venues generated "x" amount of income per month with only caffeine free items, what multiplier would you then use to reflect the same monthly sales figures if diet coke, mountain dew, etc, were made available?

There are only a certain number of drink choices available at dispensers and only a certain number of slots available in a vending machine, filling them with the drinks most likely to sell rather than the widest variety makes good business sense.

At the toy store I used to work at, we had a cooler with soda available. Certain drinks would clear out first and then the others would sit forever before being sold, but they wouldn't refill the fast selling drink before almost all the soda was gone....thus leaving them with an half empty cooler for most of the time. My memory of BYU..granted over 30 years old....was that on Fast Sunday the vending machines would be cleared out except for those items that never sold. Assuming that something is going to sell just because someone somewhere buys it is a bad assumption. Basing your inventory on what actually sells best is the most profitable. Having a machine with 100 Sprites that sell out quicker than having 50 Sprites, and 10 each of other drinks including a caffeine one or two makes better sense even if not everyone wants Sprite.

And my experience in Utah County as a customer and employee is that caffeine laced drinks do sell much less than noncaffeinated ones.

And eliminating a product that is not very profitable that causes issues for the office because of complaints makes good business sense as well.

Edited September 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[blackstrap]

Diet coke?? It's the full bore,mind blowing,highly carbonated,real classic coke or nothing. PC be da#%#.

[Darth_Bill]

Having attended BYU...we were screaming for the real thing. There was a reason Harts was so busy. If we could have taken Dew through an IV during finals, we would have.

[Calm]

I have no doubt that a certain subset of BYU students would inhale the caffeinated stuff if it was available on campus. The question is if they were enough to outweigh the demands of other students who preferred noncaffeinated drinks.

When I lived in Canada a very popular drug in the US was not available there. Made no sense to me until I talked to someone in the know who pointed out that the costs (production as well as government approval) to the company outweighed the benefits due to the limited market (which was much smaller than the US). Any intelligent business weighs costs and profits.

[juliann]

Wanting it and demanding it are two very different things. If there was caffeinated rather than decaf coke at the temple cafeteria I would buy it instead....but it would not even occur to me to ask for it. So unless there is documentation of petitions or other campaigns, which would be very, very unlikely at BYU, it would be quite honest to say there was no discernable demand.

I'm thinking that it might be a little dishonest to claim that there was, unless you are using mind reading as the criteria.

[The Grimace]

And this is precisely the scenario Carri painted. Lets explore this more, Grimace. You may be the only forum member who would propose that diet coke would not be a profitable item.

Lets say the BYU bookstore had drink coolers by the registers, and that the dorms had drink vending machines. If these sale venues generated "x" amount of income per month with only caffeine free items, what multiplier would you then use to reflect the same monthly sales figures if diet coke, mountain dew, etc, were made available?

Lets say you yourself owned these vending machines and that the profits were yours. How would your bottom line change with the addition of the real coke?

Let's use a less nefarious example. At my workplace cafeteria, diet Nestle's iced tea was sold for a while. Then, suddenly, it wasn't. When I asked why, it turns out that it takes 3 months to sell 15 bottles. Turns out, I'm the ONLY guy who who bought it! It took 3 months to sell 15 bottles of diet iced tea.

For any business, you want to turn your inventory as quick as possible so that you can convert your goods back into cash. With me as the only customer, the goods-to-cash conversion just wasn't quick enough for the cafeteria's liking. So while there was a demand for diet iced tea, it was very low.

At BYU, I can imagine that a bunch of 17-21 year old kids, a good portion where were raised to avoid caffeine, would drive the demand for caffeinated drinks lower than what would be economically feasible to carry in the BYU cafeterias.

[robuchan]

Vendors at BYU football games are not allowed to sell caffeinated products.

[Grundelwalken]

So she should have said;

"Some students and parents prefer that no member of the student body have the ability to purchase any caffeinated beverage on campus, though these beverages would likely be popular if made available"

This would have been honest, yes?

Why must some find offense in every word that is spoken? Can't we just take what they say at face value? Let THEIR words suffice and not YOURS. MW

[webbles]

There are only a certain number of drink choices available at dispensers and only a certain number of slots available in a vending machine, filling them with the drinks most likely to sell rather than the widest variety makes good business sense.

At the toy store I used to work at, we had a cooler with soda available. Certain drinks would clear out first and then the others would sit forever before being sold, but they wouldn't refill the fast selling drink before almost all the soda was gone....thus leaving them with an half empty cooler for most of the time. My memory of BYU..granted over 30 years old....was that on Fast Sunday the vending machines would be cleared out except for those items that never sold. Assuming that something is going to sell just because someone somewhere buys it is a bad assumption. Basing your inventory on what actually sells best is the most profitable. Having a machine with 100 Sprites that sell out quicker than having 50 Sprites, and 10 each of other drinks including a caffeine one or two makes better sense even if not everyone wants Sprite.

And my experience in Utah County as a customer and employee is that caffeine laced drinks do sell much less than noncaffeinated ones.

And eliminating a product that is not very profitable that causes issues for the office because of complaints makes good business sense as well.

This is what I thought the first time I read the statement. There might be a demand for caffeinated drinks, but compared to the demand for non-caffeinated drinks, it just isn't worth it. Plus, if you want to include caffeinated drinks, you've got to add at least Pepsi and Coke and now you have two drinks that are taking space from drinks that sell out faster.

[Tacenda]

Vendors at BYU football games are not allowed to sell caffeinated products.

Point of post now proven correct.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Wanting it and demanding it are two very different things. If there was caffeinated rather than decaf coke at the temple cafeteria I would buy it instead....but it would not even occur to me to ask for it. So unless there is documentation of petitions or other campaigns, which would be very, very unlikely at BYU, it would be quite honest to say there was no discernable demand.

I'm thinking that it might be a little dishonest to claim that there was, unless you are using mind reading as the criteria.

Spot on!

[The Grimace]

Vendors at BYU football games are not allowed to sell caffeinated products.

Do you have evidence that vendors are prohibited from selling such products? If so, seems I mispoke, and BYU was not being completely honest.

[Deborah]

.and then all the interviews I have endured

about drinking coke. Tell me ...does this sound like a never changing church?

In all the years of TR interviews I have never been asked about cola drinks. I know at one time it was a big deal not to drink them because the opinion was that it was the caffeine that was the reason for not drinking coffee or tea but I think people have realized more it is the "hot" drinks which are the issue as hot drinks (especially as hot as coffee or tea can be) are bad for the body. In any case, we are now wiser and the questions on the word of wisdom are more general and left up to the person's own interpretation, though tobacco and alcohol are pretty much no-no's. The problem is to day we have so many drugs and other things which are harmful and so many people with actual allergies to things that are good for you in the WOW that we can't make one standard for everyone. People need to use "wisdom" in how they put things into their bodies.

[maxrep12]

Many have commented essentially that the sales of caffeinated beverages would not be great enough to merit consideration.

The businesses that sit on the circumference of the BYU campus that offer beverages, also sell leaded soda.

There is an element of caffeinated soda sales that many here do not recognize, or choose not to acknowledge. Lets see if someone can figure it out. I'll be back to check your work.

[Kenngo1969]

Many have commented essentially that the sales of caffeinated beverages would not be great enough to merit consideration.

The businesses that sit on the circumference of the BYU campus that offer beverages, also sell leaded soda.

There is an element of caffeinated soda sales that many here do not recognize, or choose not to acknowledge. Lets see if someone can figure it out. I'll be back to check your work.

"Back to check our work"? I don't know about anyone else, but my compulsory education ended 20 years ago! Nope, no condescension there! Maxrep12: "But ... why aren't people jumping through the hoops I've shaken my little fists and stomped my little feet and demanded that they jump through! Don't they know I could cyber-pulverize them with a single keystroke?"

My, but you have an overinflated opinion of what people should care about!

Edited September 3, 2012 by Kenngo1969

[The Grimace]

Many have commented essentially that the sales of caffeinated beverages would not be great enough to merit consideration.

The businesses that sit on the circumference of the BYU campus that offer beverages, also sell leaded soda.

There is an element of caffeinated soda sales that many here do not recognize, or choose not to acknowledge. Lets see if someone can figure it out. I'll be back to check your work.

I am unfamiliar with the geography and economy that surrounds BYU-Provo having never visited Utah. So, I am not sure if it's an out-of-the-way campus or if it is integrated with the town and surrounding businesses. Me, I went to a university that was a bit removed from the local town, so local businesses were at least a bus ride away.

If BYU is close enough for students to frequent local establishments and indeed they provide enough demand for caffeinated drinks in those establishments such that those businesses carry caffeinated drinks, then I'd be suspicious of BYU's motive concerning their beverage offerings.

[maxrep12]

I am unfamiliar with the geography and economy that surrounds BYU-Provo having never visited Utah. So, I am not sure if it's an out-of-the-way campus or if it is integrated with the town and surrounding businesses. Me, I went to a university that was a bit removed from the local town, so local businesses were at least a bus ride away.

If BYU is close enough for students to frequent local establishments and indeed they provide enough demand for caffeinated drinks in those establishments such that those businesses carry caffeinated drinks, then I'd be suspicious of BYU's motive concerning their beverage offerings.

[Tacenda]

I think it is a matter of control and our obedience to it. Notice the other thread is on Ann Romney's clothing, also a form of this.

[webbles]

I am unfamiliar with the geography and economy that surrounds BYU-Provo having never visited Utah. So, I am not sure if it's an out-of-the-way campus or if it is integrated with the town and surrounding businesses. Me, I went to a university that was a bit removed from the local town, so local businesses were at least a bus ride away.

If BYU is close enough for students to frequent local establishments and indeed they provide enough demand for caffeinated drinks in those establishments such that those businesses carry caffeinated drinks, then I'd be suspicious of BYU's motive concerning their beverage offerings.

BYU is pretty much in the town. (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brigham+Young+University,+Provo,+UT&hl=en&sll=39.499761,-111.547028&sspn=5.44213,11.634521&oq=byu&hq=Brigham+Young+University,+Provo,+UT&t=m&z=15).

I just happened across a similar question from "The 100 Hour Board": http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/32185/. In the question, it mentions how Guarana is full of caffeine and that it is stocked at the BYU bookstore. So it seems that BYU isn't completely against caffeinated drinks. (If you don't know what "The 100 Hour Board" is, it is a local BYU thing that anyone can ask question and "Board Members" will try and answer it in less than 100 hours. The "Board Members" are anonymous and it is kind of difficult to become one [my wife was trying to be one while we were at BYU].)