Mormons Walk In Gay Pride Parade

[BlueDreams]

I cannot understand why one would be proud of being either homosexual or heterosexual. Since neither one is chosen as a lifestyle alternative then it cannot be a source of accomplishment or failure, therefore, why would we celebrate either one?

To all comments like this: It's about being a minority of the population. There is plenty of things that I'm proud of or that play a large role in my life that I haven't chosen. I have super curly hair. I'm mixed race. My sexuality also plays a larger role though not for reasons of SSA. They become important not because I could or couldn't choose it, but because of the decisions and experiences I've had around it. Because they don't fit into a normal or more mainstream existance they stick out and play a larger role in your life than usual. Some of these things have presented unique challenges and questions that have felt alienating, aggrivating, or have led me to learn and talk with those with similar experiences. I understand exactly why gay pride events exist. Same reason message board for curly hair exist. Same reason there's dicussion and books on being mixed race. etc. It's because it's outside the norm, there's a comfort in knowing people like you, and when you've dealt with something outside the norm for so long it becomes a disctinctive part of you. When you feel you've found an answer to it, you take pride in it.

Personally I'm pleased by the members who went. It might have sent mixed messages but I'm tired of hearing how mormons hate/fear gay people (which is the predominant message nowadays). It sends a fairly clear message in a way the world can understand and that isn't as stuffy as a press release: NO we don't. I'll take it.

With luv,

BD

[Buzzard]

It really sounds like you are passing judgement

Like we agreed on the first page, each of us is entitled to their opinion. Shall I repeat: I am not saying that people who dress like that are wicked, I am saying that the average church-attending Utah Mormon doesn't dress like that, and that leads me to conclude that a substantial portion of the marchers are not active, church-most-weeks, hold-a-calling, hold-a-reccomend LDS. That does not mean that they might not be LDS of some stripe, nor does it mean that there were not some more active members in the group. It was a simple observation, let's not make too much of it.

[BlueDreams]

Buzzard

I am saying that the average church-attending Utah Mormon doesn't dress like that, and that leads me to conclude that a substantial portion of the marchers are not active, church-most-weeks, hold-a-calling, hold-a-reccomend LDS.

Here is a video of the group in the parade. In the front there's a number who, by dress, fit your discription, but the vast majority were in exactly the type of clothes you'd expect from LDS on a sunday after church.

With luv,

BD

[altersteve]

Actually, I'd hazard that's not true. For example, we differentiate between one who is struggling with same-sex attraction and one who self identifies as homosexual.

Like I said, if you're attracted to a person of the same gender, you're not sinning. If you act upon those attractions, you are.

[treehugger]

Actually, I'd hazard that's not true. For example, we differentiate between one who is struggling with same-sex attraction and one who self identifies as homosexual.

Like I said, if you're attracted to a person of the same gender, you're not sinning. If you act upon those attractions, you are.

I agree with you altersteve. Lest we be guilty of re-defining things. Bcspace is of the mindset that if one identifies oneself as "homosexual" then we all can know for a absolute fact that person has committed a homosexual act with a person of the same gender.

Nothing, regarding the definition of homosexual, requires an "act" to have been committed; thus, it is quite acceptable for a celibate person whose sexual desire is for persons of the same gender to identify as homosexual.

There is quite a difference between attraction and and acting on those attractions. whether the attraction is cigarettes, alcohol, boys/girls.

withthat, there is also a difference between accepting the sinner and the sin, and acceptable the sinner.

[Freedom]

I don't approve of the gay life choice but the Key West ward would be a good place to start as far as non typical LDS clothing worn to church, second off who would wear church clothing to a parade?

The point is that these participants were likely not endowed which indicates that they are likely not active.

[Libs]

I'm not seeing that in the video. I saw maybe one or two people who were wearing "sleeveless". The rest looked like very typical LDS attire.

[treehugger]

]Except this was in SLC, not Key West. And some of the marchers were in Sunday go to meetin' clothes. Like I said, I'm not passing judgement on wearing certain styles of clothing, but a lot of what was in the video were styles that go against, say the guidelines in "For the Strength of Youth". In a place like Utah, with not only the LDS religion, but the LDS culture so well known, wearing short shorts and sleeveless dresses/tank tops over skirts tells me that those marching not only had not been to the temple (obviously), but that they were comfortable wearing clothing styles that the church counsels against. I deduced from that observation that likely a lot of the "active Mormon" supporters saw less time inside a chapel than they would have us believe.

you and I must not be looking at the same group of people, at the front of the group is a female wearing what could be described as sleeveless, at 42 seconds another female in a black dress shoulders covered but sleevless, and at the very end of the group shoulders covered and sleeveless...so three people out of the entire group, otherwise, I saw what is typical for any Sacrament meeting I have attended in various parts of the United States.

[Daniel2]

Ah, but what is "being gay"? A single person living a moral, chaste life, regardless of his or her attraction, is not committing sin. A person who is not chaste, regardless of their selection of partners, is committing a sin that needs to be repented of. I would say that someone who has SSA issues, but does not act on them is not "gay". They are living a moral life, period." Being gay" in modern vernacular usually means they have had one or more partners of the same gender, and the scriptures and prophets are unequivical that this is not acceptable in God's eyes.

In todays sex-drenched society, a person is considered bizarre and not a complete human being if they are not having regular sexual relations, regardless of their marital standing, while the Lord and the church have made it clear that there is a different standard that is expected, and life is not just about fulfillment through having sex.

I hope I am not treading too close to the line on the "no sex threads" rule. If I am, my apologies in advance to the mods.

The above is absurd. Only those who are anti-gay attempt to make verbal pretzels to distinguish their disapproval of a term like "gay," erroneously attempting to make it's opposite be "celebate." That simply isn't the case. One can be "gay" and single.

Consider the following:

Ah, but what is "being straight"?... I would say that someone who has OSA (Opposite-Gender-Attraction) issues, but does not act on them is not "straight". They are living a moral life, period. "Being straight" in modern vernacular usually means they have had one or more partners of the same gender.

Sexual orientation is NOT dependent upon sexual activeness--whether one is straight, or gay.

While the efforts of this group of Latter-day Saints is appreciated, and while I appreciate the efforts of many gay-folk to reclaim a sense of personal pride by overcoming shame, gay Pride parades are something I avoid. Often times, the fringe groups at such events end up engaging in wildly self-defeating behaviors. The weirdest of the weird often come out on display--and, of course, the media always focuses on the most attention-grabbing few.

If the gay community wants a place at the table of social respect, then we must behave respectfully. As an openly proud gay man, I wouldn't take my kids to Pride--just as I wouldn't take my kids to Mardi Gras. The Straight Community has the benefit of having a gazillion other parades they can take their kids to that don't celebrate sex, weirdness, or fringe behaviors--they mostly save theirs for Mardi. A highly vocal and visible segment of the gay community unfortunately potentially contributes to the very ostracism they crave so desperately to find by simply being so socially repugnant to middle America at Pride festivals.

My view,

Daniel2

[Libs]

Daniel, I agree, that is what a lot of gay pride parades have been, in the past (not very family friendly). But, I have seen a change occurring on that scene, and many of the parades/carnivals have become very family friendly. My daughter and her husband have attended several here in CA, and she is the one who was telling me about the change. She has taken her daughters without any reservation, because of that change. That may not be the case for every gay pride parade, but I do know it is for some. I didn't see anything objectionable in this one in SLC? I didn't see the whole thing, but what I did see seemed pretty tame.

[Libs]

That video in your tagline (Daniel) is beautiful.

[bluebell]

Honestly, I see nothing wrong if an LDS person truly feels they are better representatives of Christ if they participate in things like the Gay Pride Parade. I also don't see anything wrong with an LDS who feel they are better representatives of Christ by not participating, as long as it is sincere and not based on negative feelings towards gay people (and doesn't include damning them all to hell).

I don't see either decision as being more 'Christ-like' than the other one.

[Duncan]

I inadvertently watched a gay pride parade once, trying to cross the street, when my son was in his stroller. He was too young and someone gave him a sticker and seemed more interested in that then anything he saw! but yes, not family friendly! I am not a fan of parades anyways so I was like yippee zippee and I would say that about any other parade. FWIW I know a few gay people who won't participate in parades for whatever reason.

[David T]

The point is that these participants were likely not endowed which indicates that they are likely not active.

Many 20-30 year old single women, even those very active, are not endowed.

[The Nehor]

That parade looks so ga......

Self-moderating

[Avatar4321]

Homosexual behavior is sinful. Simply being gay is not.

If the whole point of the Gospel is to BE like Christ, then is it really not sinful to be anything else?

[Buzzard]

If the whole point of the Gospel is to BE like Christ, then is it really not sinful to be anything else?

I think my anti-homosexual behavior bonafides have been pretty well born out by my posts. But for someone with SSA, not giving in to temptation and focusing his/her life on living the gospel to the best of their ability seems pretty Christlike to me. Not much different that for those of us who deal with other temptations and tendencies.

[Ron Beron]

To all comments like this: It's about being a minority of the population. There is plenty of things that I'm proud of or that play a large role in my life that I haven't chosen. I have super curly hair. I'm mixed race. My sexuality also plays a larger role though not for reasons of SSA. They become important not because I could or couldn't choose it, but because of the decisions and experiences I've had around it. Because they don't fit into a normal or more mainstream existance they stick out and play a larger role in your life than usual. Some of these things have presented unique challenges and questions that have felt alienating, aggrivating, or have led me to learn and talk with those with similar experiences. I understand exactly why gay pride events exist. Same reason message board for curly hair exist. Same reason there's dicussion and books on being mixed race. etc. It's because it's outside the norm, there's a comfort in knowing people like you, and when you've dealt with something outside the norm for so long it becomes a disctinctive part of you. When you feel you've found an answer to it, you take pride in it.

Personally I'm pleased by the members who went. It might have sent mixed messages but I'm tired of hearing how mormons hate/fear gay people (which is the predominant message nowadays). It sends a fairly clear message in a way the world can understand and that isn't as stuffy as a press release: NO we don't. I'll take it.

With luv,

BD

I understand your point but respectfully disagree. One's physical condition is, while prideful to one's own persona is not necessarily something that needs or should be presented to others as a source of pride. I'm proud of my family, but it is only to me is it a source of pride. Others could care less and it is only at the height of narcissism that would compel me to display it as such. Likewise I would not make my sexuality, heritage or any other personal characteristics subject to display in a public manner. To do so is hedonistic.

[Avatar4321]

I think my anti-homosexual behavior bonafides have been pretty well born out by my posts. But for someone with SSA, not giving in to temptation and focusing his/her life on living the gospel to the best of their ability seems pretty Christlike to me. Not much different that for those of us who deal with other temptations and tendencies.

I'd argue that if one is not giving into the temptation of same sex attraction, that they are not gay.

Not only that, but the Atonement changes human nature so we no longer desire to do anything wrong.

[blackstrap]

The annual July 24th parade in SLC celebrates what? Is there an element of pride there in heritage or is that just a group thing not an individual thing?

[Lightbearer]

The problem with all of this (marching in gay pride parades etc) is that instead showing our christian love for such people who are afflicted with this weakness, it is trying to normalize such behavior and placing a validation of such feelings/actions as acceptable to God. It is politically correct to say that Gays are a different race and so since they are "born that way" therefore they are not to blame for the way they are and thus homosexuality is not a sin. This of course is a lie of Satan and I have thought that if people are "born with these desires" then it is only a result of the fall of Adam. If this is the case, then the atonement of Christ can help those so afflicted overcome these unrighteous desires, just like He can help us all overcome our sinful natures if we will have faith in Him and repent. But my opinion is that these desires are wrong and that promoting "pride" in such perverted desires is not only offensive to God but is sinful in and of itself (the condoning of such desires). I think those struggling with such feelings should be helped to overcome these desires rather than told it is okay to celebrate and embrace such things. It is an abomination to say that their spirits are in the wrong body. To say these desires are natural or normal is to promote such behavior as natural and normal, but you cannot have it both ways, you cannot say the actions are wrong and that the desires are okay! It is either on the one hand or the other and God has declared through His prophets that homosexual acts are sinful and that any same sex desires should be supressed and eradicated if possible. No matter how politically powerful those who promote this lifestyle may become they are wrong. It is a perversion, a sin that must be overcome, the first step in repentance is to recognize something is a sin, how is this possible if one celebrates this adominable lifestyle?

[Buzzard]

I'd argue that if one is not giving into the temptation of same sex attraction, that they are not gay.

Not only that, but the Atonement changes human nature so we no longer desire to do anything wrong.

I would agree with your first point.

I partially agree with your second point. Christ's atonement changes us so we no longer desire to sin, but tempation to sin is a lifelong struggle for each of us. Some of our brothers and sisters may have the temptation to sin in the form of being attracted to those of the same gender. If they "have recieved his image in (their) countenance(s)", then like all of us, they will find it easier to resist the temptation. But the temptation still exists andmust be resisted.

[thesometimesaint]

It is not a sin to be tempted, Christ was tempted. The sin is in giving into that temptation.

[Libs]

There is no sin in being who you are, nor in loving whomever you love. (I'm talking about true love, not people who use and abuse children...just to be clear!)

I have said this before and will keep saying it...the real challenge is to those who have a difficult time accepting all of God's children for who they are and how God made them. That is the challenge being presented. People have always had difficulties embracing differences or perceived disabilities, so this is not a new challenge. It is a built-in life lesson.

[altersteve]

If the whole point of the Gospel is to BE like Christ, then is it really not sinful to be anything else?

Well, I don't believe homosexuality is a choice. You can't choose who you're attracted to. And if you're attracted to the gender and you're NOT attracted to the opposite gender, then you're homosexual, whether you act on those attractions or not. Period.