Mormons Walk In Gay Pride Parade

[Libs]

Back to reality...here are the facts:

http://www.apa.org/h...rientation.aspx

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder.

[selek1]

Back to reality...here are the facts:

Ah yes "the facts"¹.

The thinking has been done. The rest of us need to sit down and shut up.

Thank you for putting is so succinctly.

¹ As determined by a self-selecting, ad hoc political committee based on a limited study conducted using a small, unrepresentative, sample in support of predetermined political objectives.

[Mordecai]

Back to reality...here are the facts..

lol ::sigh:: Always good to get a laugh. That's about as factual as, "The best color in the world is yellow!"

[Libs]

Whatever...

[Ron Beron]

Back to reality...here are the facts:

http://www.apa.org/h...rientation.aspx

Prior to 1975 the APA did consider homosexuality a psychological disorder. They were wrong then and right now? Doesn't it seem that political correctness is somewhat involved? Even DSM II stated it was a disorder while III stated that "Ego-dystonic sexual orientation" or "a sexual orientation or an attraction that is at odds with one's idealized self-image, causing anxiety and a desire to change one's orientation or become more comfortable with one's sexual orientation".

While it may not be socially abnormal it could be considered biologically abnormal due to its genetic disposition. A question to be asked would be that if one could alter the sexual orientation of one before birth would one do so? And why?

[Libs]

Ron, as I've said before, our culture used to consider blacks "abnormally slow", because of nothing more than the color of their skin. We have, thankfully (most of us, anyway) grown beyond that and now realize (through science) that intelligence is not based on skin color.

A question to be asked would be that if one could alter the sexual orientation of one before birth would one do so? And why?

Not sure why that is important. I can see parents not wanting to bring a gay child into this world, because they have been, generally speaking, treated very badly by society. That's changing, thankfully, but it still could be a consideration. I'm sure a lot of gays have wanted (and tried to!) change their orientation for that same reason. There has been, historically, a lot of self hate in that group, because of societal rejection.

But, I know some very healthy SSA people who would not change it for anything, because they have accepted themselves for who they are.

[california boy]

I disagree. Homosexual attraction isn't always a natural process, but in some cases a learned one. In prisons men will engage in homosexual practices because their libido is high and the constrictions are low. For some women the same sex attraction is due to some behavioral modification derived from a psychological hemorrhage from childhood, often connected to a male figure in their lives.

Ron, do you really think that homosexuality is determined by who a person has sex with? Really? If a gay man has sex wiht the opposite sex, does that make him straight? Is that what you really think????

[california boy]

Prior to 1975 the APA did consider homosexuality a psychological disorder. They were wrong then and right now? Doesn't it seem that political correctness is somewhat involved? Even DSM II stated it was a disorder while III stated that "Ego-dystonic sexual orientation" or "a sexual orientation or an attraction that is at odds with one's idealized self-image, causing anxiety and a desire to change one's orientation or become more comfortable with one's sexual orientation".

While it may not be socially abnormal it could be considered biologically abnormal due to its genetic disposition. A question to be asked would be that if one could alter the sexual orientation of one before birth would one do so? And why?

So that is your reason you think that homosexuality is a psychological disorder because 37 years ago when very little was known about homosexuality they had a different view? Maybe you could tell us what happened 37 years ago that it became politically correct to make those at the top of their profession decide to yield to the pressure of political correctness and change their understanding of homosexuality. Do you have such complete disregard for the APA over everything it says or just homosexuality because you disagree with them? Do you also think its views on other mental health issues should all revert back to prior to 1975? Should we reinstitute lobotomies? Does this really make any sense to you?

[california boy]

Do you have absolutely any proof for any of these statements you are making?

They are self evident. Down's syndrome is disfunctional, and that is self-evident. So is homosexuality.

Do you think it takes a majority of the population before you call something normal? You acknowledge that being gay has existed since the beginning of recorded history. It seems like a normal condition of mankind to me.

Down's synderome is likewise normal, according to your definition. But is is reasonable to conclude that it is dysfunctional for society.

snip

They are tired of being discriminated against just because they don't have the same sexual orientation as straight people. Nothing new here except that it is now out in the open rather than behind closed doors and not talked about. Not one gay person cares whether you "accept" their lifestyle. What they clearly expect is this country to do is to treat them equally under the law and you to support their equality under the laws.

I support equality under the law for all Americans, but reject giving a driver's license to the blind, and a marriage license to a SS couple. A license is not granted to everyone who applies for it if they do not fit the qualifications.

Quite honestly I don't even know where to begin to respond to your post. Obviously you feel that homosexuality is some kind of physical handicap or disease. You do realize that there are entire states that allow gay marriage and zero states allow blind drivers? There is a legal reason why we don't allow blind drivers. If you read the prop 9 trial, you will find that there is no creditable legal reason why we do not allow gay marriage. Now if you have solid legal reasons why gay marriage should not be legal, I am all ears.

[Ron Beron]

Ron, do you really think that homosexuality is determined by who a person has sex with? Really? If a gay man has sex wiht the opposite sex, does that make him straight? Is that what you really think????

Certainly, in a symptomatic way it does. If one consistently engages in sex with the same gender then it would be homosexuality. That is the technical term. However, having sex in a closed cloistered setting does not necessarily indicate homosexuality, but homosexual activity. I see homosexuality as a continued willing behavior, but the sexual nature of humans is varied and unique. This does not mean that all sexual activity is normal.

[Ron Beron]

So that is your reason you think that homosexuality is a psychological disorder because 37 years ago when very little was known about homosexuality they had a different view? Maybe you could tell us what happened 37 years ago that it became politically correct to make those at the top of their profession decide to yield to the pressure of political correctness and change their understanding of homosexuality. Do you have such complete disregard for the APA over everything it says or just homosexuality because you disagree with them? Do you also think its views on other mental health issues should all revert back to prior to 1975? Should we reinstitute lobotomies? Does this really make any sense to you?

It had a lot to do with political pressure from pro-gay protest groups and Frank Kameny who led organized and consistent protest against the APA.

What makes sense is I do consider homosexuality (the act) to be a sin, but I also consider anything that goes against God's law to be a sin. The actor is not evil, but sinful. This includes me as well. We are all in open rebellion, but I am not proud of my indiscretions nor do I march in a parade to highlight my lack of church attention, my sometimes callousness and intolerance, or laziness.

[Pahoran]

Quite honestly I don't even know where to begin to respond to your post. Obviously you feel that homosexuality is some kind of physical handicap or disease. You do realize that there are entire states that allow gay marriage and zero states allow blind drivers? There is a legal reason why we don't allow blind drivers.

Possibly for the same reason that we don't have "blind pride" parades: the blind community hasn't been taken over by a coterie of ideologues perversely "celebrating" their blindness and demanding that they be given a special status that gives them "visual equality."

Everyone agrees that blind drivers cause damage. That is because the damage can be easily quantified and cannot be explained away by politically-based verbal legerdemain. But if we had to choose between sharing the road with blind drivers and sharing our children with the unrepentant practitioners of gross immorality, I'd take the blind drivers any day of the week. They'll do far less damage.

Regards,

Pahoran

Keep it civil. You have been removed from the thread.

[california boy]

Possibly for the same reason that we don't have "blind pride" parades: the blind community hasn't been taken over by a coterie of ideologues perversely "celebrating" their blindness and demanding that they be given a special status that gives them "visual equality."

Everyone agrees that blind drivers cause damage. That is because the damage can be easily quantified and cannot be explained away by politically-based verbal legerdemain. But if we had to choose between sharing the road with blind drivers and sharing our children with the unrepentant practitioners of gross immorality, I'd take the blind drivers any day of the week. They'll do far less damage.

Regards,

Pahoran

Keep it civil. You have been removed from the thread.

Ok well I can't really have a discussion with someone who thinks the reason we don't have blind drivers is because they haven't had a blind pride parade.

[california boy]

It had a lot to do with political pressure from pro-gay protest groups and Frank Kameny who led organized and consistent protest against the APA.

What makes sense is I do consider homosexuality (the act) to be a sin, but I also consider anything that goes against God's law to be a sin. The actor is not evil, but sinful. This includes me as well. We are all in open rebellion, but I am not proud of my indiscretions nor do I march in a parade to highlight my lack of church attention, my sometimes callousness and intolerance, or laziness.

Ron if the APA was a religious organization then you might have a point. it however does not base mental diagnostics by what the current interpretation of the Bible is.

[Ron Beron]

Ron if the APA was a religious organization then you might have a point. it however does not base mental diagnostics by what the current interpretation of the Bible is.

Nor should it diagnose mental conditions by protest. I don't consider homosexuality to an abnormal psychological condition, but it is not socially normal, either.

[Libs]

Nor should it diagnose mental conditions by protest. I don't consider homosexuality to an abnormal psychological condition, but it is not socially normal, either.

You're right that it's not a psychological disorder, and if you know that, why are you complaining about the studies? Just because someone asked for them, doesn't mean they are incorrect or in any way biased. (The same goes for this recent study, but the fact that the methods didn't measure what some claim it measures, is a part of the problem).

As for as SS attraction not being a "social norm", that is fairly obvious, but doesn't make it wrong or a psychological disorder. Einstein wasn't, intellectually, in the "norm", either, but that didn't mean he was mentally ill...or a sinner.

[Ron Beron]

You're right that it's not a psychological disorder, and if you know that, why are you complaining about the studies? Just because someone asked for them, doesn't mean they are incorrect or in any way biased. (The same goes for this recent study, but the fact that the methods didn't measure what some claim it measures, is a part of the problem).

As for as SS attraction not being a "social norm", that is fairly obvious, but doesn't make it wrong or a psychological disorder. Einstein wasn't, intellectually, in the "norm", either, but that didn't mean he was mentally ill...or a sinner.

Perhaps I am a little dense, but what study? I wasn't addressing any particular study.

[Libs]

Sorry, I got this thread mixed up with the other one, regarding a recent study on SS attraction.

[cdowis]

As for as SS attraction not being a "social norm", that is fairly obvious, but doesn't make it wrong or a psychological disorder. Einstein wasn't, intellectually, in the "norm", either, but that didn't mean he was mentally ill...or a sinner.

Even those who deny God and sin will admit that the primary function of sex is reproduction, so SS attraction is dysfunctional for a primary function to continue society. I would call that a disorder.

Now, I am not sure how that relates to Einstein and intelligence, but I guess you had to say something to try to make an intelligent comment.

[Libs]

And, I guess you had to attack the messenger, as you frequently do.

Even those who believe in God know that sex is also about pleasure, intimacy and hopefully about love. I wouldn't say the sex act is used primarily for procreation, even though it might be considered the "primary function". Sex is about a lot more than just procreating...and most of the time, we humans are trying to avoid procreating (many more times than we are having sex to procreate, I would think). It is pleasurable and a very intimate means of expressing our love. That is the primary use, even if it isn't the primary "function". And, this would be true for both same sex and opposite sex partners.

[california boy]

Nor should it diagnose mental conditions by protest. I don't consider homosexuality to an abnormal psychological condition, but it is not socially normal, either.

I am a little confused. Ron do you really believe that homosexuality is a mental illness? Do you think that the APA should still be treating homosexuality? If it was just politically correctness that the APA determned that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, how should the APA deal with someone who is gay?

[cdowis]

And, I guess you had to attack the messenger, as you frequently do.

Thanks for the cheap shot.

Even those who believe in God know that sex is also about pleasure, intimacy and hopefully about love. I wouldn't say the sex act is used primarily for procreation, even though it might be considered the "primary function". Sex is about a lot more than just procreating...

You ignore what is actually written, and blather on with some strawman argument. You didn't even bother to quote me.

and most of the time, we humans are trying to avoid procreating (many more times than we are having sex to procreate, I would think). It is pleasurable and a very intimate means of expressing our love. That is the primary use, even if it isn't the primary "function". And, this would be true for both same sex and opposite sex partners.

Read what I actually wrote.

You can have all the sexual pleasure that you want, both in your fantasies and with another person. I really don't care, but the topic was society and SS marriage.

[Ron Beron]

I am a little confused. Ron do you really believe that homosexuality is a mental illness? Do you think that the APA should still be treating homosexuality? If it was just politically correctness that the APA determned that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, how should the APA deal with someone who is gay?

Of course it isn't a mental illness, but to state it is normal behavior is irrational and incorrect. I think the main concentration of the APA, while it certainly should not treat homosexuality toward a goal of "normality" in all cases, should help the individual to cope with his own sexuality. A "gay parade", while salving some detriment in self-esteem may feel good for a moment, but it doesn't cure long term inward feelings of self-loath. The gospel was never intended to make a person hate themselves because of their imperfections, but to overcome them so they can feel at one with God and their fellows. If I may add that if one hates gays then they have the greater burden. Sinners should not hated and sin should be treated as a disease.

[california boy]

Of course it isn't a mental illness, but to state it is normal behavior is irrational and incorrect. I think the main concentration of the APA, while it certainly should not treat homosexuality toward a goal of "normality" in all cases, should help the individual to cope with his own sexuality. A "gay parade", while salving some detriment in self-esteem may feel good for a moment, but it doesn't cure long term inward feelings of self-loath. The gospel was never intended to make a person hate themselves because of their imperfections, but to overcome them so they can feel at one with God and their fellows. If I may add that if one hates gays then they have the greater burden. Sinners should not hated and sin should be treated as a disease.

Are you saying that you think most gay people are self-loathing because they are gay?

[Ron Beron]

Are you saying that you think most gay people are self-loathing because they are gay?

Did I say most? I would think that coping with homosexuality in a fairly anti-homosexual world cannot be easy. It has been my experience (non-clinical) that people who feel discrimination and unfairness turn their anger inwards and then out.