Is Earth Really The Most Wicked Of God'S Creations?

[janderich]

My personal opinion is that since this is the world that Christ would come to, it's the world where Satan tries the hardest.  There's an opposition in all things. Think of Newton's law of an equal and opposite reaction. Christ came to this world, so Satan would focus more on this earth than the other ones.

Brigham Young did not believe this was the only world that had a Savior. Rather he believed that each world has a Savior who is the oldest son of the Father.  

Worlds have always been in progress, and eternally will be. Every world has had an Adam and an Eve, named so simply because the first man is always called Adam and the first woman, Eve. And the oldest son has always had the privilege of being ordained, appointed and called to be the heir of the family if he does not rebel against the Father, and he is the Savior of the family. Every world that has been created has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one: it is one eternal round. ("For This Is Life Eternal," Brigham Young Addresses (1982), 2:230)

President Young said there never was any world created & peopled nor never would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the savior of that world." (Journal of Wilford Woodruff; Ms/f/115)

This notion that our world is the most wicked/righteous of all God's creations really needs to be done away with. It is kind of like believing that we are the center of the universe. No, we are not the center of the universe, no we are not the most wicked/righteous, no we do not get to pat ourselves on the back and think how wonderful we all are. Rather we are yet another world with a Savior, as all worlds have had. As with other worlds, we are working to perfect this earth to a celestial state.  

[CV75]

Moses 7:36

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

I see that it says, "there has not been," so I suppose He meant up to that time, which means there is plenty of opportunity for things to get worse, anywhere/anytime thereafter!

 

I think once the Savior accomplishes a work, opposition against it among any of His creations would increase. When Satan is bound from acting out in this world, he or his kind might redouble the opposing efforts elsewhere among God's infinite creations (or at least have more experience doing it).

[ERayR]

Moses 7:36

I'm sure that many of you who have grown up in the Church have been taught either in Sunday School or Seminary that this Earth is the most wicked of God's creations, and that we were the only planet capable of crucifying the Savior.

We know that God's creations are "without number" and there are literally trillions and trillions of planets in the Universe. Do we really live on the most wicked planet? If so, what does this mean? Is this just a myth? Did we do something in the pre-existence to merit coming to this planet? Is it an honor, just chance, or maybe a punishment? Does this notion come from Moses 7:36?

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

 

Its a tough job but somebody has to do it.

[ERayR]

Brigham Young did not believe this was the only world that had a Savior. Rather he believed that each world has a Savior who is the oldest son of the Father.  

This notion that our world is the most wicked/righteous of all God's creations really needs to be done away with. It is kind of like believing that we are the center of the universe. No, we are not the center of the universe, no we are not the most wicked/righteous, no we do not get to pat ourselves on the back and think how wonderful we all are. Rather we are yet another world with a Savior, as all worlds have had. As with other worlds, we are working to perfect this earth to a celestial state.  

 

I take it you don't believe that scripture.

[ERayR]

I have no problem with men on other earths, Jesus as the Christ, or Moses parting the Reed Sea, as beliefs. It works for me. What I do have a problem with is trying to prove it in reality. Reality has a nasty habit of bitting us on our butts.

 

Whose reality?

[Rob Osborn]

It is quite clear that God, in speaking of the wicked on this earth deemed them to be the wickedest of all his children in and under the entire heavens and worlds of Gods countless creations. And itis no wonder why either- Lucifer fell in the heavens, a unique event in the history of the Gods, and thus we have a unique battle that the likes of heaven have never seen under Gods command.

[janderich]

I take it you don't believe that scripture.

 

It is quite clear that God, in speaking of the wicked on this earth deemed them to be the wickedest of all his children in and under the entire heavens and worlds of Gods countless creations. And itis no wonder why either- Lucifer fell in the heavens, a unique event in the history of the Gods, and thus we have a unique battle that the likes of heaven have never seen under Gods command.

Let's take a look at the scripture. Enoch bares record of God weeping and asks, "How is it that thou canst weep?" He then goes on to comment that "were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations." Enoch is taken with the immensity of what God has created, with the fact that their are millions of earths, like this one, and with the holiness wherein God dwells. He cannot imagine that God cares about a few wicked people. But the Lord wants to correct Enoch's misunderstanding.To do so he says, "Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands." What does the Lord mean by "brethren"? It is critical to understand this word because it is used again in verse 36 where the Lord says, "and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren."

 

So, is it Enoch's literal brothers and sisters? Is it perhaps those of his city? Or maybe those of the earth? Or just maybe it is those of many earth's who are on the same standing as Enoch and have the same freedom and the potential for wickedness. Perhaps the Lord is using the term "brethren" to help Enoch understand his, and God's, connection to them. That as is Enoch, so are they. That as he loves Enoch, so he loves them. That they are his brothers.

 

If that is not enough evidence, the Lord distinguishes some of the groups in verse 38. He says, "But behold, these which thine eyes are upon shall perish in the floods". So by brethren he does not exclusively mean the wicked who perished in the floods, otherwise he would not distinguish them from the group he was just talking about. 

 

We must look beyond our narrow interpretations. The Lord is sharing a grand truth about the eternities, about his love for all he has created and about our relationship with them. But we instead turn what he says on its head and use this scripture to point to how righteous and important we are. Isn't there a problem in this?

Edited March 10, 2015 by janderich

[The Nehor]

I like the idea that we are on the most wicked earth and that our chosen generations are the best of the worst. We're basically Special Olympics champions.

[cinepro]

Two years after the first moon landing, the youth of the Church were given this to answer the obvious question:

 

People on Other Worlds

 

Age-old questions again come to the surface: Is our earth the only world in all of space that has intelligent inhabitants? Or is there life on other worlds—perhaps intelligent beings like ourselves or maybe even more intelligent than ourselves? Might they visit us?

-

One of the most exciting things for many Latter-day Saint students to learn is that the Church, through revelation from God (who—have you ever thought of it in this light?—is our contact from outer space), teaches some of the answers to these questions. And we’ve had the answers for quite some time.

[Rob Osborn]

Let's take a look at the scripture. Enoch bares record of God weeping and asks, "How is it that thou canst weep?" He then goes on to comment that "were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations." Enoch is taken with the immensity of what God has created, with the fact that their are millions of earths, like this one, and with the holiness wherein God dwells. He cannot imagine that God cares about a few wicked people. But the Lord wants to correct Enoch's misunderstanding.To do so he says, "Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands." What does the Lord mean by "brethren"? It is critical to understand this word because it is used again in verse 36 where the Lord says, "and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren."

 

So, is it Enoch's literal brothers and sisters? Is it perhaps those of his city? Or maybe those of the earth? Or just maybe it is those of many earth's who are on the same standing as Enoch and have the same freedom and the potential for wickedness. Perhaps the Lord is using the term "brethren" to help Enoch understand his, and God's, connection to them. That as is Enoch, so are they. That as he loves Enoch, so he loves them. That they are his brothers.

 

If that is not enough evidence, the Lord distinguishes some of the groups in verse 38. He says, "But behold, these which thine eyes are upon shall perish in the floods". So by brethren he does not exclusively mean the wicked who perished in the floods, otherwise he would not distinguish them from the group he was just talking about. 

 

We must look beyond our narrow interpretations. The Lord is sharing a grand truth about the eternities, about his love for all he has created and about our relationship with them. But we instead turn what he says on its head and use this scripture to point to how righteous and important we are. Isn't there a problem in this?

The scriptures make clear that God's people on this earth were more wicked than all of his creations under the whole heavens. That is also why God tells us the whole heavens weep over us on this earth because of this earths wickedness. Whether that makes us important, righteous, or whatever is besides the point, none of us can remember all of the details of the pre-earth life. Right place at the right time? who knows?

[rpn]

I would think that mortals would always be the most wicked --- it is in the mortal existence that there is opposition in all things.   Agency and opposition means that evil happens, even as they both also make becoming like Him possible.   Wasn't He talking about the mortals?

Edited March 10, 2015 by rpn

[JLHPROF]

The scriptures make clear that God's people on this earth were more wicked than all of his creations under the whole heavens. That is also why God tells us the whole heavens weep over us on this earth because of this earths wickedness. Whether that makes us important, righteous, or whatever is besides the point, none of us can remember all of the details of the pre-earth life. Right place at the right time? who knows?

 

Yet according to the same book of scripture this was the only earth created under these heavens.  A reading of ALL of Moses 7 shows pretty clearly God is referring only to this world, not the others.

 

I think Moses 7 refers only to this creation, not to his worlds without number.  I'm inclined to agree with Brigham that each creation (world) has its own Savior.

[Teancum]

Moses 7:36

I'm sure that many of you who have grown up in the Church have been taught either in Sunday School or Seminary that this Earth is the most wicked of God's creations, and that we were the only planet capable of crucifying the Savior.

We know that God's creations are "without number" and there are literally trillions and trillions of planets in the Universe. Do we really live on the most wicked planet? If so, what does this mean? Is this just a myth? Did we do something in the pre-existence to merit coming to this planet? Is it an honor, just chance, or maybe a punishment? Does this notion come from Moses 7:36?

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

 

 

No!

[rongo]

Yet according to the same book of scripture this was the only earth created under these heavens.  A reading of ALL of Moses 7 shows pretty clearly God is referring only to this world, not the others.

 

I think Moses 7 refers only to this creation, not to his worlds without number.  I'm inclined to agree with Brigham that each creation (world) has its own Savior.

He also said that each inhabited world has its own tempter. 

 

I also agree with Brigham Young on this. While I have heard fellow Saints say that Jesus is the only Savior of all worlds, worlds without end, this doesn't ring true with me. While people talk about how much faith people would have to have to believe in a Savior whose ministry wasn't even on their world, I have a hard time believing God would require this level of faith.

[Rob Osborn]

Yet according to the same book of scripture this was the only earth created under these heavens.  A reading of ALL of Moses 7 shows pretty clearly God is referring only to this world, not the others.

 

I think Moses 7 refers only to this creation, not to his worlds without number.  I'm inclined to agree with Brigham that each creation (world) has its own Savior.

I think perhaps we could take a closer look. First, lest look at the two pertinent verses-

36 Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren.

37 But behold, their sins shall be upon the heads of their fathers; Satan shall be their father, and misery shall be their doom; and the whole heavens shall weep over them, even all the workmanship of mine hands; wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?

These two verses above are Gods answer to Enoch from the previous verses-

29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity?

30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;

31 And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep?

So, now we have the context for the verses 36 and 37. Enoch acknowledges all of Gods creations and myriads of earths just like ours, obviously peopled. Enoch asks almost as if God has such a large creation with so many other worlds that there must be so many things to be happy about. Instead God singles our earth out from "all" his creations, acknowledging "all" of them in reply to Enoch. "All the workmanship of mine hands" in verse 36 is thus referring to every single last soul in the universe who was created by God. He then refers to our earth's inhabitants as "thy brethren". In verse 37 God refers to all of his creations in the whole heavens, not just our heaven, that weep over our earth. He clarifies this even further so there is no doubt and says- " even all the workmanship of mine hands;".

There can be no doubt that the dialogue between Enoch and God includes acknowledgement of "all" of Gods creations on every countless earth just like ours.

[janderich]

The scriptures make clear that God's people on this earth were more wicked than all of his creations under the whole heavens. That is also why God tells us the whole heavens weep over us on this earth because of this earths wickedness. Whether that makes us important, righteous, or whatever is besides the point, none of us can remember all of the details of the pre-earth life. Right place at the right time? who knows?

Perhaps you can explain where the scriptures make clear that God's people on the earth are the most wicked. It appears to me that the section in Moses 7 hinges on the word "brethren". If we limit the word "brethren" to mean earth's inhabitants then you may be right. But this is not how the scripture appears to me. Further, in assuming v36 refers only to earth's inhabitants, we make the critical error of believing we are exclusive. Of all the millions of earths God created we are the most wicked. This leads to believing we were the only earth to receive a Savior. While this feeds the ego, logic would say "no".  

[Rob Osborn]

Perhaps you can explain where the scriptures make clear that God's people on the earth are the most wicked. It appears to me that the section in Moses 7 hinges on the word "brethren". If we limit the word "brethren" to mean earth's inhabitants then you may be right. But this is not how the scripture appears to me. Further, in assuming v36 refers only to earth's inhabitants, we make the critical error of believing we are exclusive. Of all the millions of earths God created we are the most wicked. This leads to believing we were the only earth to receive a Savior. While this feeds the ego, logic would say "no".

Special circunstances for sure. Lucifer falling was a rare occasion. His rebellion created special circumstances. This earth is the battleground now of that war. We all have been prepared. Many noble and great ones are here on earth.

[theplains]

I'm sure that many of you who have grown up in the Church have been taught either in Sunday School or Seminary that this Earth is the most wicked of God's creations, and that we were the only planet capable of crucifying the Savior.

...

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

 

2 Nephi 10:3 says

 

“Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ – for in the last night the

angel spake unto me that this should be his name – should come among the Jews, among

those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it

behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.”

 

But I'm not sure why it equates the entire nation with 'some of the Jews' who wanted to kill

Jesus.

 

Regards,

Jim

[thesometimesaint]

I have enough problems with dealing with this wicked world without worrying about other less wicked worlds.

[pogi]

If we are the most wicked, I guess I don't have to fear anymore about hostile alien abductions 

[VideoGameJunkie]

If we are the worst world, then consider it an accomplishment if you can come out of this world with flying colors. If you can make it here, you deserve salvation.

[janderich]

If we are the worst world, then consider it an accomplishment if you can come out of this world with flying colors. If you can make it here, you deserve salvation.

We on this earth are of course the most special, well prepared, individuals of all of God's creations. Moreover we are members of the church on this the most wicked/righteous earth so we are even more deserving of salvation. Makes me wonder why I even had to come here at all. Can't I just be exalted now? Then I could go teach all the other drab souls on all the other worlds about Christ and how he came to my earth. Then just maybe they can someday attain what I have.

[The Nehor]

If we are the most wicked, I guess I don't have to fear anymore about hostile alien abductions 

But we have abductions here so they might be just a little nicer and not push old ladies down the stairs but still okay with visiting other planets, probing the inhabitants for fun, and then flying home.

[pogi]

But we have abductions here so they might be just a little nicer and not push old ladies down the stairs but still okay with visiting other planets, probing the inhabitants for fun, and then flying home.

 

As long as grandma is safe...