Book Of Mormon And Lds Church Poll

[CV75]

#1 on both!

Hoorah for Israel! Hoorah for Israel! Hoorah for Israel!

And a Happy Thanksgiving to all--

[thesometimesaint]

Number #1 for both.

[Garden Girl]

#1 on both... firmly and gratefully...

That said, I do believe that while only the CoJCoLDS holds the fullness of the gospel and priesthood keys, I do believe also that there is much good and truth to be found in other denominations... early prophets and our modern prophets have exhorted us to seek and honor truth wherever it is found...

GG

[altersteve]

#1 on both... firmly and gratefully...

That said, I do believe that while only the CoJCoLDS holds the fullness of the gospel and priesthood keys, I do believe also that there is much good and truth to be found in other denominations... early prophets and our modern prophets have exhorted us to seek and honor truth wherever it is found...

GG

I strongly believe this as well.

[Sky]

Thanks everybody for your participation! And for those that haven’t voted yet, please feel free to cast your vote. My choice was also #1 for both questions, but I also agree with what Garden Girl said. I actually was a bit surprised at the amount of people on here who hold orthodox LDS beliefs on these questions. I thought there would be a few more who would be less-than-orthodox. I want you all to know that I am thankful for you, no matter where you stand. Reading through these threads and posting here has enriched my life. I hope you all have a wonderful and safe Thanksgiving!

[rodheadlee]

I've thought Mormon chapter 8 could be read as speaking to the members of the church rather than the world at large. I think there is much in Moroni and Mormon that could be read in that light.

Thanks!

[Hamba Tuhan]

I find both propositions #1 to be literally incredible.

Yet they're both true.

And that's the miracle of it. As Joseph Smith himself said, 'If I had not experienced what I have, I should not have believed it myself.'

Edited November 24, 2011 by Hamba Tuhan

[Rob Bowman]

Sky,

I am unable to select just one answer for either question. I shall explain.

On your first question, I can actually agree to all but the first answer. Parts of the Book of Mormon are inspired, because it contains material copied verbatim or nearly verbatim from the Bible, and that material is inspired. However, the Book of Mormon is not in my view an authentic ancient history. So I can assent to the second answer. Also, since the Book of Mormon contains many true statements, parts of it can help people to live better lives, but it is not in my view the word of God, so I can assent to your third answer. Unfortunately, in my view, the Book of Mormon as a whole is a fabrication (most likely of Joseph Smith), and anyone agreeing cannot take the Book of Mormon as a whole seriously in the sense of accepting what it purports to be.

On your second question, I can assent to the second and third statements. Many of the LDS Church's teachings and practices can help people live better lives, but overall, as I see it, the "cons" outweigh the "pros." The fourth option is problematic for me, because I think it would be overreaching to say that the LDS Church's leaders are "corrupt." I would prefer to say something along the lines that its leaders are not the prophets and apostles they claim to be.

[Stargazer]

Number 1 on both

[erichard]

That sounds ominous. How do gentiles corrupt the church?

Well, I will quote a few scriptures, and you can decide what they mean:

60 Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee, concerning the revelations and commandments which thou hast given unto us, who are identified with the Gentiles. --D&C 109

7 Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.

...

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.

12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.

13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel. --3 Nephi 16

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world? --Mormon 8

The angel Moroni told Joseph that the fulness of the times of the Gentiles was about to come in. (JS-History 1:41) There is plenty of scriptural evidence, including the D&C 109 quote above, to show that the LDS church was the gospel restored among the Gentiles.

And there is plenty of scriptural evidence that shows that the Gentiles (as a whole) will reject the fulness of the Gospel and that it will come to the point that the Gentile nations will be filled with all manner of evils. That includes our time now, right?

But will the Lord's latter-day Gentile church be spared? Mormon 8 speaks of the holy church of God being polluted. What other church would that be? D&C 84:57-58 also mentions what could be considered a cleansing of the church.

The exact year of cleansing of the church is not known but is predicted, in a 1975 non-LDS revelation I believe in, to come about eventually. (2BC 24)

Richard

[mfbukowski]

Well, I will quote a few scriptures, and you can decide what they mean:

Richard

Your second set of quotes do not have references to the book and chapter, only verses.

Some may think they come form scriptures you accept that we do not accept like 2BC. Many do not know you are not Utah LDS or whatever you call us, and it might be confusing for them.

I enjoy your posts- you always bring a fresh perspective, but I think it is important that others know "where you're coming from".

Edited November 24, 2011 by mfbukowski

[erichard]

Your second set of quotes do not have references to the book and chapter, only verses.

...

The second set of quotes has " --3 Nephi 16" at the end. All the verses are from that chapter.

Richard

[mfbukowski]

The second set of quotes has " --3 Nephi 16" at the end. All the verses are from that chapter.

Richard

[Avatar4321]

I have to answer 1 and 1. If it werent for the mercies of the Lord and the revelation Ive recieved I couldnt give that answer.

[Senator]

Voted 'other' on both questions.

I cannot say that the BofM is a historical record, based on emperical evidence alone. Regardless, it is an amazing religious and spiritual piece of literature written by a very gifted individual. Its main strength is its testimony of Jesus Christ. Therefore it gets my 'Word of God' vote!

My view of the church runs along the same vein. I see its emergence and existence to be remarkable. I sustain it as holding legitimate authority. I however, view "the Church of God" to be far larger than merely the borders of Mormondom.

I'm quite confident the number of Latter-Day Saints runs in the 10s of millions, if not hundreds. I'm also quite confident that when the Lord comes and reigns again, that all the Saints will willingly align themselve accordingly. The Mormon Saints included!!

[thesometimesaint]

Senator:

I'm a bit more nuanced. I agree that we shouldn't base our testamonies on physical evidence alone. IE. There was no physical evidence for Troy until it was found. But I do believe that physical evidence can lend support to that testamony.

[Senator]

Senator:

I'm a bit more nuanced. I agree that we shouldn't base our testamonies on physical evidence alone. IE. There was no physical evidence for Troy until it was found. But I do believe that physical evidence can lend support to that testamony.

Yes.

It can also weigh against it.

[seriously honestly]

I voted other on both of them.

I don't believe the Book of Mormon story is true (thus, not historical). It could help people live better but not because it's inspired per se but because it is heavily influenced by the Bible. There are many Biblical themes and truths found in the BoM, and it appears that Joseph Smith took those themes and truths and put them in a more story-like form.

I also don't believe the LDS church is true, and that the belief of what the "church" is in an LDS mindset as well as the LDS church's claim to be the "one true church" is fraudulent, but I still appreciate the emphasis on clean living, family, and high morals.

[Sky]

Sky,

I am unable to select just one answer for either question. I shall explain.

On your first question, I can actually agree to all but the first answer. Parts of the Book of Mormon are inspired, because it contains material copied verbatim or nearly verbatim from the Bible, and that material is inspired. However, the Book of Mormon is not in my view an authentic ancient history. So I can assent to the second answer. Also, since the Book of Mormon contains many true statements, parts of it can help people to live better lives, but it is not in my view the word of God, so I can assent to your third answer. Unfortunately, in my view, the Book of Mormon as a whole is a fabrication (most likely of Joseph Smith), and anyone agreeing cannot take the Book of Mormon as a whole seriously in the sense of accepting what it purports to be.

On your second question, I can assent to the second and third statements. Many of the LDS Church's teachings and practices can help people live better lives, but overall, as I see it, the "cons" outweigh the "pros." The fourth option is problematic for me, because I think it would be overreaching to say that the LDS Church's leaders are "corrupt." I would prefer to say something along the lines that its leaders are not the prophets and apostles they claim to be.

Fair enough. Thank you for taking the time to explain your answer.

The same goes for erichard, Senator, seriously honestly, and everybody else.

[Senator]

Wow, how many times is this thread going to get bumped?

[Sky]

Wow, how many times is this thread going to get bumped?

I thought the same thing... I guess it gets bumped every time somebody votes. But the overall trend of where people stand on this board seems pretty clear by now.

[Seraphim32]

I put 3 and 2. I am one of those "radical" Christians who, though I don't believe in the LDS faith, believes it to be a source of good in the world.

[Storm Rider]

I put 3 and 2. I am one of those "radical" Christians who, though I don't believe in the LDS faith, believes it to be a source of good in the world.

I think when it comes to members of all Christian churches, without interference from leaders, find fellowship with other Christians regardless of church affiliation. Organizations seem quicker to condemn other groups (yes, they each have zealots, but I believe them to be a distinct minority) rather than people. People have relationships with other people not organizations. Glad to have you here.

[HeatherAnn]

I voted for the following:

Parts of the Book of Mormon can help people to live a better life, but even so, it is not the word of God.

It is not the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth, but many of its teachings and practices will help people to live better lives.

Same here.

[HeatherAnn]

I put #3 on the question regarding the BoM. I could also say the same of the writings of many people. Like Mudcat, I don't care particularly who did write it, but I think the last option may be too narrow in suggesting it is a complete fabrication of JS's. It leaves many options off the table where a person who does not see it as divinely inspired or of particular valuable (which is what it could have been left at) must take a stand on authorship in some way. I don't think the other options do so. When read closely, even the first question leaves authorship of the BoM out. Interesting.

I put "other" on question 2. I think there are many things the LDS church does and teaches that can be valuable for people. Just as I view high school as being valuable. But as a stopping place in one's life journey? I'd see it as crippling. I also strongly disagree with the non-religious, but still substantial, influence the church exerts on the politics of the US. As long as the church influences people's decisions on same-sex marriage, for example, and in a way that I feel causes real harm in other's lives, then I can not agree with any option available. It's not all bad, but it is responsible and should be accountable for certain things that IMO are inexcusable.

I agree that lds doctrines are not dinvely meant to be a "stopping place in one's life journey." And I can & do see how it is crippling to those who see it as the end all. When people were harassing him about what he & his disciples were doing on the Sabbath, Jesus explained that "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." -Mark 2:27 religious rituals= sabbath rituals.

While, I believe marriage is intended primarily to care for future society -CHILDREN (who need a mom & a dad)... I do disagree with non-religous business involvement of LDS leaders... It's wrong to use Jesus' name for profit & it's wrong to hide finances from tithe payers. I also agree that the church (leadership & members) are "not all bad but it is responsible and should be accountable for certain things that IMO are inexcusable."