Bikini's

[Lamanite]

Are you claiming to be a bean pole?

I pictured Molly Sims or Heidi Klum. (sp?) But I only pictured for 4.2 seconds pretty much fully clothed.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I'm not sure what underfat means? Not that I understand most of todays fitness terms. My BMI says I'm obese but I'm 10% body fat and 225lbs. I don't get it.

I think after this lengthy discussion I've come to a couple of conclusions.

1. My reaction is normal.

2. My restraint from mental masturbation was comendable.

3. Although I wish women would be more aware of the affect they have on men and make changes where needed, I realize this is more of a fantasy than a reality.

4. She is in no way culpable. I'm a big boy and will continue to do my best at doing my best.

5. Since I'm doing so well now I'm sure I could easily handle a posted picture of zoid just to test my resolve.

I will send you a picture of me if it will make you feel better.

[MorningStar]

I can't believe a discussion on bikini's went 8+ pages. Here's my assessment:

Bikinis==good

Taxes==bad

Stick to that and it's all downhill.

Hey everyone. I think Bond wears bikinis.

[Amulek]

However, thinking that women should bear any responsibility for the problems you are experiencing is wrong. Which is the only thing I've ever had problems with.

Men are visual animals. Thatâ??s just a fact of life. Guys know it. Girls know it. The advertising industry most definitely knows it. So when a gal chooses to walk around immodestly dressed she is either (a) incredibly na

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Men are visual animals. Thatâ??s just a fact of life. Guys know it. Girls know it. The advertising industry most definitely knows it. So when a gal chooses to walk around immodestly dressed she is either (a) incredibly na

[Zoidberg]

Are you claiming to be a bean pole?

What difference does it make? I used to have a poor body image as a teenager because I thought the reason nobody wanted to date me was that they didn't find me attractive (even though in reality it was the fact that I had ideas they couldn't grasp, which they interpreted as "weird") so I dressed in a way most LDS people would classify as "immodest" in hopes that it would be enough to convince someone to be my boyfriend. It didn't. I used to have a very high metabolism (which is now slowing down and I'm gaining more weight than I'm used to), so I ate a lot and still looked like a skeleton, and people thought I was bulimic and tried to get me to go to counseling; I couldn't convince them that I didn't have any eating disorders whatsoever. At another time I shopped exclusively at thrift shops because I thought clothes were overrated (I still prefer to buy inexpensive clothes). I stopped wearing pink for a while so as not to appear ditsy.

And then I realized that no matter how I look, people are going to judge me by my appearance. And the best way I can contribute to people not doing that would be to stop judging people by their appearance, including myself. So now I have pink clothes and if I happen to really like a shirt that is over $20, I buy it. And if the unpadded bras are the most comfortable, I wear them. And if someone wants to go swimming topless, I see no reason for them not to do so.

[katherine the great]

If you put on a skimpy bikini and walk by a construction site you are probably going to hear catcalls. Just like if you were to go to a civil rights rally and spew racial epithets you are probably going to get decked by somebody.

On the same note, one should expect to see bikinis at a public swimming pool. Wearing a bikini at a pool is not the same as walking down the middle of the street in one.

[Bond...James Bond]

Hey everyone. I think Bond wears bikinis.

Only the tops....I find the bottoms cramp my style.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What difference does it make? I used to have a poor body image as a teenager because I thought the reason nobody wanted to date me was that they didn't find me attractive (even though in reality it was the fact that I had ideas they couldn't grasp, which they interpreted as "weird") so I dressed in a way most LDS people would classify as "immodest" in hopes that it would be enough to convince someone to be my boyfriend. It didn't. I used to have a very high metabolism (which is now slowing down and I'm gaining more weight than I'm used to), so I ate a lot and still looked like a skeleton, and people thought I was bulimic and tried to get me to go to counseling; I couldn't convince them that I didn't have any eating disorders whatsoever. At another time I shopped exclusively at thrift shops because I thought clothes were overrated (I still prefer to buy inexpensive clothes). I stopped wearing pink for a while so as not to appear ditsy.

And then I realized that no matter how I look, people are going to judge me by my appearance. And the best way I can contribute to people not doing that would be to stop judging people by their appearance, including myself. So now I have pink clothes and if I happen to really like a shirt that is over $20, I buy it. And if the unpadded bras are the most comfortable, I wear them. And if someone wants to go swimming topless, I see no reason for them not to do so.

No I really dont care what you look like. I was being silly. Any how if someone wants to go topless I cant hang around them while thats happening. We all have standards. Ill leave it up to you to figure out what Im saying.

[myleague]

Bringing it back to mormonism...?!?!?

[Bond...James Bond]

Bringing it back to mormonism...?!?!?

Alright....I didn't feel like reading the whole thread so I just have a few question for the LDS concerning swimsuits etc:

1) Are there any specific rules about what types of swiimsuits can be worn by an LDS person (1 piece, 2 piece)?

2) If there aren't any spelled out rules by the Church leadership (I wouldn't think there would be any) what seems to be the norm in swimsuits for ladies (I.e. one piece or two piece suits)?

(Let's assume of course men are all wearing swimming trunks....although I'm sure Stuess is a big fan of The Speedo)

[Zoidberg]

No I really dont care what you look like. I was being silly. Any how if someone wants to go topless I cant hang around them while thats happening. We all have standards. Ill leave it up to you to figure out what Im saying.

I know you were being silly, just wanted to put in the last two cents. I respect your standards and consider them as valid as my own.

Bringing it back to mormonism...?!?!?

Mormons should take some of the attention that is being paid to the number of earrings a person wears or the length of their skirt and direct it to trying to understand what kind of a person it is and what values and intentions they have, IMHO.

[structurecop]

Mormons should take some of the attention that is being paid to the number of earrings a person wears or the length of their skirt and direct it to trying to understand what kind of a person it is and what values and intentions they have, IMHO.

A-men!

[AddamS]

Only the tops....I find the bottoms cramp my style.

That's not your "style" cramping.

[myleague]

The less the church micro manages my life the better. I'm all for inspiration and revalation, but as what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I like having enough rope to hang myself, I've gotten quite good at it.

I don't think women or men should shoulder most of the blame, as I think corporate America is more responsible, telling women what men want and telling men what women want. Creating insecurities so they can sell us something for it. We are each accountable but when companies are able to successful target market children as young as 3, what accountability do they have when that's all they know.

Sure we could turn off the TV, but I can't turn off the ads in the stores, or the how friends and family influence the commercial needs. Marketing and advertising agenies are good at what they do, that's why they make so much money. They also know that the younger they can hook a person the more ingrained they will be to buy their product.

[DH]

Substitute "any" for "all the", and I will agree with you. I am not responsible for what anyone thinks about me. Ever. I am responsible for my own intentions and behavior. If someone misinterprets my intentions and behavior, why should I care? I do not control anyone else and can't ensure that no one ever misinterprets what I say or do, or how I look. If we all walked around naked, "modesty" wouldn't be a concern. In the current society I wouldn't go to the mall wearing nothing but sunscreen, boyshorts, a tank top and flip-flops, even though it would be comfortable and enough to protect my vulnerable areas and protect my body from sun exposure. I also understand that since we've been covering up certain body parts for so long, they have come to be overly eroticized and if I exposed them now, it could be distracting to some guys. So I don't do it out of courtesy (and because it's illegal; if it were legal, I probably still wouldn't do it - out of courtesy; and habit). Just like some guys open doors for women out of courtesy (and some women don't like it and consider it condescending, let me assure you). I'm sure a lot of guys wouldn't mind at all if I walked around completely naked.

Zoidberg, I agree with you in principle, but in real life it just doesn't work that way. Being human, we all have our weaknesses and limitations. To me, it doesn't seem like such a good idea to completely ignore other people's feelings and limits. If someone were to come up to me and tell me, in real foul language and with an angry expression on his face, that I am a horrible, lousy, rotten person, even though my rational mind would know quite well that's not true, I have no doubt my feelings would be hurt. And just because I'm theoretically responsible for my own thoughts and should not let him hurt my feelings doesn't mean it's ok for that person to say such things to me. People are not islands, and we do affect each other.

Daniel

The less the church micro manages my life the better. I'm all for inspiration and revalation, but as what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I like having enough rope to hang myself, I've gotten quite good at it.

I don't think women or men should shoulder most of the blame, as I think corporate America is more responsible, telling women what men want and telling men what women want. Creating insecurities so they can sell us something for it. We are each accountable but when companies are able to successful target market children as young as 3, what accountability do they have when that's all they know.

Sure we could turn off the TV, but I can't turn off the ads in the stores, or the how friends and family influence the commercial needs. Marketing and advertising agenies are good at what they do, that's why they make so much money. They also know that the younger they can hook a person the more ingrained they will be to buy their product.

Amen to that, Myleague!!

Daniel

[alter idem]

whoa! what a tongue lashing

Where did I say this problem was extreme? I behaved myself. And controled my thoughts. However, I would appreciate a little help from the sisters in reducing the number of times I have to resist staring at your barely covered areola!

I'm sorry if you read my comments as a "tongue lashing". They weren't meant as such, but on a message board things often read as harsher than intended.

Only you know if your problem is "extreme". In your initial post you stated:

She then walked over to say hi. I'm at that point having a hard time remembering what she is saying, and trying to keep eye contact. She's says bye and I'm trying to look at my book and not watch her walk away (which I failed to do).

Now, I fought internally any recall of the event until now and refused to ruminate on any image that may want to resurface. It is a struggle to maintain chaste within my own mind within the course of a normal day, without some girl prancing around me 98% naked.

You were unable to respond to her in a normal way and you fought to keep the image of her out of your mind all day. This seemed extreme for a friendly encounter --to worry so much about it and not just let it go. Also, to place the responsibility for your reaction on her. Yes, she was dressed immodestly. Yes, she is LDS and we would assume she knows the standards(of course, she could be a recent convert and has no idea yet that bikinis are considered immodest by church standards). But you have no control over what she or any other woman wears at a public pool. What would have been your reaction if she'd been a non-LDS person you didn't know? Would you have not felt the same sexual response? I assume it would have been the same. Therefore, the trouble here is not with her--who you can't control. The trouble and the solution lies only with yourself.

When Jesus said for men not to look on a woman with lust, he said nothing about the woman--nothing about her needing to be more modest or covering up so no one would lust after her. He knew that men are hard wired to have this kind of response to a female they find attractive--no matter what she's wearing. He also pointed out the if you do look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery with her already. What an unfortunate thing to do to a woman..to unfairly perceive her as an adulterous person also--only because you found her attractive. I think we see here that Jesus put the responsibility on the beholder. He made no excuses and he pointed out that when we do this, we demean the other person in the way we now perceive them. If you want to say that they deserved it by what they were wearing-plenty of others will agree with you. However, the Lord doesn't let anyone off the hook with that excuse. We can only control ourselves and that is what he asks us to do. How we do that depends on what works. If staying away from the pool or not watching TV are the only ways you are able to control it, then you'll have to decide if it's worth it to you.

I understand males and sexual attraction. I try not to dress too revealing or sexy(except for my husband of course). However, I refuse to dress in baggy, unattractive clothing just so that my figure won't excite some man. I think that worrying too much about the reaction others might have toward us can even bring on mental or emotional issues which are unhealthy. I'm sure everyone's heard of women who purposely try to look ugly in order to keep men from looking at them.

[sixidahos]

It seems as if a lot of people have read President Packers talk on masterbation and singing a hymn.

I have a hard time believing that age and wisdom (and not simply the decrease of testosterone) causes a man's head not to turn at the sight of a young women. Let alone a bikini clad hard body.

You're right, age doesn't help that much. Slows it down, but girl in a bikini trumps maturity. You can't stop initial thoughts of lust. It's a biological thing. The best thing you can do is try to think about something else and avoid going back to thoughts about the girl. It's like quitting smoking, thinking about it only makes the body and brain crave it more.

Anthony

[MorningStar]

Only the tops....I find the bottoms cramp my style.

That sounds cool as long as you're wearing MC Hammer pants with it.

[cartoon bluejay]

I would say my figure falls closer to the unattainable ideal of currently popular models than that of an average female (I'm also underfat, which is not very healthy). Not that I deserve any credit for it, I don't even excercise.

This is the first time I haven't liked what you've had to say.

Mormons should take some of the attention that is being paid to the number of earrings a person wears or the length of their skirt and direct it to trying to understand what kind of a person it is and what values and intentions they have, IMHO.

I know there's already been an "AMEN" to this but I've been gone all day and I just have to say it again... AMEN!!

I don't think women or men should shoulder most of the blame, as I think corporate America is more responsible, telling women what men want and telling men what women want. Creating insecurities so they can sell us something for it. We are each accountable but when companies are able to successful target market children as young as 3, what accountability do they have when that's all they know.

You make a good point. I still think that individually we bear the responsiblity for our own reactions. If you notice your 3 yr old is becoming interested in things that are age inappropriate - as an adult we hold the responsibility to find the source and guide that child into other interests (my suggestion is that this is gently done without emphasis on the undesired interest).

Lamanite - I appreciate your honesty. I think it shows maturity to post this and take the heat - which I perceive you have done very well. Here's my honesty, OUCH! This hurts the ego of many women. I can understand the appreciation for the twenty-something, hard-bodied woman in a bikini. I've admired it also - proabably envied it as well. When I was thirty - I had the body but no courage to wear a bikini - now I'm 40 - I have the courage but not the body (5 kids later and twins) Stretch marks on the belly of woman who had twins - Yikes! So - I guess I'm the woman that you're now repulsed by... in that 10 years of using my body (supposedly) for what it was intended for (having babies) and now it seems to some, my presence at the pool is offensive instead of "look at that beautiful woman with her beautiful children".

It's a standard I struggle with - I know plenty of women who think their 40-60 yr. old mates are as sexy as ever, even with the pot-bellies and balding spots. AND they aren't having a hard time with their imagination wandering off if they see a twenty-something, hard-bodied man. It hurts the ego because it is more likely for a man to have the tendency to leave the 35-50 yr old, body-used woman who's too tired for sex because of the kids and too tired to take too much personal care. Where's the intimacy and care in that? What you said - sounds threatening to me (sort of) - Sure - women have a responsibility in the maintenance and upkeep of themselves and the relationship she is in but most women don't have time after 2-5 kids (especially when they are young). So - I'm just saying maybe - you could look for the beauty within a person also and try that for an aphrodisiac. But if you need the green string bikini woman too - why not?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Every time a man expresses an interest in something intelligent,

Like

football and farting contests,

This is an issue that has bothered men for thousands of years. How can I remain chaste with all that tempting flesh on display? How can I dull my natural carnal instincts? How can I further indulge my religion's innate distaste for all things sexual? Well, look no more my friend. This Gordian Knot has been conquered. Behold: I give you, the Solution:

And even though I don't fully approve, for those who wish to skirt the boundaries of good taste and modesty, here's a racy swimsuit:

(As you can see, the woman's face is showing, which could lead to inappropriate carnal thoughts. It is for this reason that I advise anyone to think long and hard before donning such unrighteous apparel.)

Too much skin...tone it down guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pa Pa

[myleague]

I know what you're saying but when life becomes subconscious it's very hard to change, you have to recognize it first. I've only been hit in that sweet spot that brings every man to his knees a few times, but my knee jerk reaction to anything that comes in close proximity is very good. It's nothing more than conditioning, I don't think about it. I don't think about a lot of things I do as I have become conditioned on what I buy and where I shop.

When companies can successfully condition youth they've taken away that agency, and until one can recognize it has happened nothing will change that conditioning. I'm sure there are great many things wrong with the way I'm conditioned but if all of that were to be changed of night I'm sure I would be somewhat mentally unstable... more so than I am now. That's why it's line upon line. Tackle one issue and start on another.

The question should be asked of the OPer if he has told his wife about the situation and his feelings and thoughts on it. I know my wife is far more aware of my quirks than I am.

Electro shock works wonders tooâ?¦ so I hear.

[Bond...James Bond]

That sounds cool as long as you're wearing MC Hammer pants with it.

"Can't Touch This" and "Hammer Time" have all new meanings after this thread.

[Nephi]

Also, will this primal reaction ever go away for us men.(im assuming I'm not the only one).

God I hope not! That urge is what procreates the species. What happens is that you as a Man learn to control their urges to not act upon them. That is life.

[jadams_4242]

Alright....I didn't feel like reading the whole thread so I just have a few question for the LDS concerning swimsuits etc:

1) Are there any specific rules about what types of swiimsuits can be worn by an LDS person (1 piece, 2 piece)?

2) If there aren't any spelled out rules by the Church leadership (I wouldn't think there would be any) what seems to be the norm in swimsuits for ladies (I.e. one piece or two piece suits)?

(Let's assume of course men are all wearing swimming trunks....although I'm sure Stuess is a big fan of The Speedo)

I beleive the stand that church members takes on this issue can be summed up in one word...

Modesty.!