Bikini's

[dude]

Well then it will be ok for me next time to stare at her cleavage as long as it's only for 3 secs. *tongue in cheek*.

Actually it might be healthier than you think.

To be constantly "not looking" is never going to work either. Sometimes you're just pretending not to look, but lusting just the same. Then you get stuck in an extreme. (I'm speaking generically here, not about you.)

The 3 second rule doesn't mean you lust for 3 seconds, it means you acknowledge what's around you, perhaps even appreciating it, and then you have the job of processing it correctly without lust. If you're constantly "not looking" and shielding your eyes from the evils around you, that's not processing anything healthily. In this day and age, I'm trying to teach my boys how to deal with stuff, not necessarily avoid it, because you can't.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Actually the whole discussion could be when is a swin suit to short or to revealing? Soon everybody will be naked or just wearing strings.

[Lamanite]

Singing a hymn never worked for me. My best tool is to change the paradigm in my mind. No matter how good she looks, she's somebody's daughter, sister, and maybe mother. It seems to take the lust out of it for me.

This is better than the hymn trick. I have four daughters and so it hits home for me.

[alter idem]

I don't know where this thread belongs but I usually post here so I put it here.

I just moved into a townhome that has a community swimming pool. I went the other day, and in walked one of the most attractive twenty somethings in my area wearing a bright green string bikini. She also happens to be in my ward. She then walked over to say hi. I'm at that point having a hard time remembering what she is saying, and trying to keep eye contact. She's says bye and I'm trying to look at my book and not watch her walk away (which I failed to do).

Now, I fought internally any recall of the event until now and refused to ruminate on any image that may want to resurface. It is a struggle to maintain chaste within my own mind within the course of a normal day, without some girl prancing around me 98% naked.

My question is does these young women bear any responsibility? Also, will this primal reaction ever go away for us men.(im assuming I'm not the only one).

Lamanite, you cannot control other people-they have agency just as you do. If this is such an extreme problem for you that you cannot control your thoughts when you see someone in a bikini, then maybe you need to exercise your agency and stay away from pools and such.

Please drop the notion that you can foist responsibility for your reaction on others--otherwise, you'll never learn to discipline yourself or your thoughts. Until you accept this fact, you will always be able to rationalize and absolve yourself mentally from having to really deal with your own responses--and your own choices.

Do women need to be concerned about modesty and how others view them? Yes, but you can't do anything about their choices--you can only do something about your own.

[Zoidberg]

Lamanite, you cannot control other people-they have agency just as you do. If this is such an extreme problem for you that you cannot control your thoughts when you see someone in a bikini, then maybe you need to exercise your agency and stay away from pools and such.

Please drop the notion that you can foist responsibility for your reaction on others--otherwise, you'll never learn to discipline yourself or your thoughts. Until you accept this fact, you will always be able to rationalize and absolve yourself mentally from having to really deal with your own responses--and your own choices.

Can I put my signature under this, too?

[alter idem]

Look at all that ankle!

But you're right in a way. I can easily imagine the beauty of the woman (and fill in all the details) whose face is showing and whose form is still discernable, but those who faces are covered hardly seem human to me (could be a factor on how women are treated in Muslim countries).

I am not ashamed to be a man nor am I ashamed to say I can and do appreciate the beauty of a woman. The woman in the 'unIslamic' apparel is quite attractive. Now that ought to be a clue to women that they don't have to dress immodestly to catch the eye.

Umm...it's not "unIslamic"--that is probably an Islamic approved swimming apparel for women. If she's the type who needs to cover her lower face, she just pulls the scarf over.

See, this is what concerns me. Members of the church are asked to dress modestly--but not all do. Many choose to follow the immodest fashions of the world. Unless Mormons want to become just as unreasonable as extreme Muslims about demanding that female members cover themselves up; then we'll always have to allow for members to choose. This will mean the male members will have to learn to control their own selves--especially if they want to also live in the world; because the rest of the world doesn't care about church modesty standards and you're going to see scantily clad people all the time.

[MorningStar]

I'm planning on teaching my boys to ask girls out who respect themselves enough to wear modest clothing. If I ever have girls, I will teach them that they shouldn't use their bodies to get attention and if they dress immodestly to attract boys, they might not attract the kind of guy they want. Like it or not, what we wear advertises who we are. I wouldn't wear a cigarette or beer shirt because I don't smoke or drink. I wouldn't dress immodestly because I don't believe our bodies were created for others' entertainment and I want my body to be for my husband only. A bikini sends the message, "If it weren't for these pesky laws, I would be naked right now." It also increases the chances of showing things you hadn't intended on showing. I have seen "wardrobe malfunctions" happen quite a few times at the beach, women losing their tops on waterslides, when they jump into the pool, and last year when my family was getting out in front of the Krispy Kreme, this teenage girl was wearing a very immodest top and accidentally exposed herself as she got out of her car and my husband said, "Uhhhhhh ... That girl's breast just came out." Her reaction was weird. She just giggled as if it happens all the time. I don't understand why some women seem to base their worth on how many men are sexually attracted to them. Look at Cosmopolitan the next time you're going through the check-out at the grocery store. There is always something about sex on there and someone bearing their cleavage. Almost always there is something about pleasing men in bed. And women have fallen for this crap, that our main purpose in life is to be sexy. And with the young women, maybe they're trying to attract attention from young men, but they are also attracting attention from old men. It does seem to be a competition amongst women too, but it would be nice if they would focus on being sexy in privacy with their own husband. One of my friends whose husband is addicted to pornography gets very upset because he is doing well and seeing scantily clad women is a trigger for him. They took all their kids to a water park and she hadn't thought of how the women would be dressed. He said, "This is so difficult" and he walked all over trying not to look at anyone. Whenever she sees anything that might be triggering for him, she says, "One, two, three, look at me!" Needless to say, they won't be going there again, which is a real bummer because the kids had a blast.

To me, a modest swimsuit says, "I like swimming. I would wear more clothes, but they're not good for getting wet." If you really like swimming and want to avoid women in bikinis, I would suggest going for a lap swim at the pool. That's when the serious swimmers go instead of the people who are partially there to show off their bodies.

I really have to agree about the European thing. European men like naked women as much as American men do. I went to Austria when I was 15 and my host family took me to a topless beach, telling me all the while that it was too hot to wear a shirt and that's why they go topless. They said it meant nothing to the men. Whatever! I wore a t-shirt and jeans the whole time and I was just fine. The first topless woman we saw, my host dad said very excitedly, "OH! HELLO!" Then I awkwardly observed him and his friend staring at each others' wives breasts and they asked me if I was going to take my top off. I was 15!!!!! I just glared at them and told them, "No. I think it might look a little odd if I pulled the top half of my bathing suit down." I was so uncomfortable around them, I kept my clothes on until I got right next to the water because I didn't even want them looking at me in my full piece bathing suit. I have worn a Speedo for years which are very modest for women. Speedos for men - yuck. Men just shouldn't wear form fitting material. My brother-in-law and my brother's best friend frequently walk into the house with bike shorts on and it makes me feel a little uncomfortable as if I've walked in on them wearing their underwear. Oh yes, the other thing with Austria, they played porn on TV at 8 pm. I couldn't believe it. Not only was nudity a big deal over there, it was like they used any excuse they could to show naked people. There was a yogurt commerical with a mom and daughter playing the piano naked. They stop and take a bite of yogurt. Oh. My. Gosh. I just pray it will never get that bad over here. What does playing the piano naked have to do with yogurt? Why would anyone play the piano naked??? I've been playing the piano for 25 plus years and it's never entered my mind to do so. I did play in my bathing suit though.

This summer we found a great place to swim. There are hardly any people there except for the people fishing (fully clothed people - woo hoo!) and we had a great time. It was all about swimming!

Modest is the hottest! (See my blog entry on that)

[DH]

every thing looks worse in color.

Sez you!

[LifeOnaPlate]

I strongly dislike when little dance troupes of little girls parade around in skanky outfits.

[Zoidberg]

I strongly dislike when little dance troupes of little girls parade around in skanky outfits.

Because it can turn men into pedophiles?

[MorningStar]

I strongly dislike when little dance troupes of little girls parade around in skanky outfits.

I hate that too. Combine it with certain moves and it's even worse.

A friend of mine said her husband came back from some weightlifting convention with a flyer for pole dancing classes. He wants his wife to take the class. I asked, "Is that what he thinks romance is? Why does he want you to imitate a stripper??? And where exactly is he going to install the pole?" She agreed that it would be nice if he were to come home with a flyer for a tango class for them to do together.

[DH]

However, I have to wonder how much of a man you are if you no longer appreciate the female form and the sight of an attractive women who is 98% naked has no physiological or mental affect on you? Maybe you've matured your way right out of manhood.

How much trouble do people get themselves into trying to "prove their manhood!" A word of advice: you're a man, period. Don't worry about it, or about what other people think. Maturity is a good thing. Though I don't think I'll ever stop appreciating the female form (nor do I really want to, to be honest!), maturity does help one better manage one's feelings.

Another word of advice: The harder you try not to think about a white bear, the more you will think about it. That's just the way the human mind works. A good friend of mine suggested to me that when I am faced with temptation, I can think of Jesus, and how much He loves me even though I am prone to sinful thoughts. When I do that, the power of Jesus' love is often so overwhelming that the temptation goes away, and I end up feeling very grateful and thinking about how wonderful Jesus is.

DH

[Hoops22]

I guess I just don't get this conversation. I realize I have made a few stabs at being funny here more for the reason that I don't see what the big deal is. Women are beautiful. And, perhaps more apropos, women are so durned mysterious. So we are stuck with finding it difficult to look away (I don't want to look away, thanks) but also difficult to understand. For a guy to not be able to cognitively relate to something - or someone - only make that thing/person even more attractive.

There's a gal who walks by where I am sitting every day at 5:30. She always says hello and is very pleasant. She's attractive, but she is also, how shall we put it? Well, let's say she wears tights sweaters and it shows. I don't even try to not look anymore, impossible. But I do enjoy the brief interaction with an attractive woman who is well built. How am I wrong here? Of course, I'm a heathen evie who doesn't believe this "work" means much of anything.

[selek]

Because it can turn men into pedophiles?

Because it degrades and sexualizes the children. It reinforces negative behavior in return for attention (and usually negative attention at that). It robs them of thier innocence in favor of the highly sexualized depravity sold by Spears, Madonna, and Hilton.

Clearly, as this thread has shown, men can behave as something other than ravening beasts. Shouldn't we expect our daughters to behave as something other than harlots?

[Hoops22]

And where exactly is he going to install the pole?"

I'm sure there's a few here who can offer suggestions.

[MorningStar]

I guess I just don't get this conversation. I realize I have made a few stabs at being funny here more for the reason that I don't see what the big deal is. Women are beautiful. And, perhaps more apropos, women are so durned mysterious. So we are stuck with finding it difficult to look away (I don't want to look away, thanks) but also difficult to understand. For a guy to not be able to cognitively relate to something - or someone - only make that thing/person even more attractive.

There's a gal who walks by where I am sitting every day at 5:30. She always says hello and is very pleasant. She's attractive, but she is also, how shall we put it? Well, let's say she wears tights sweaters and it shows. I don't even try to not look anymore, impossible. But I do enjoy the brief interaction with an attractive woman who is well built. How am I wrong here? Of course, I'm a heathen evie who doesn't believe this "work" means much of anything.

Women are attractive in loose sweaters too.

[Hoops22]

Agreed. But she never wears them. NOt my point.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Because it degrades and sexualizes the children. It reinforces negative behavior in return for attention (and usually negative attention at that). It robs them of thier innocence in favor of the highly sexualized depravity sold by Spears, Madonna, and Hilton.

Clearly, as this thread has shown, men can behave as something other than ravening beasts. Shouldn't we expect our daughters to behave as something other than harlots?

Oh no Salek, that is asking to much. No wonder there are all sorts of problems today. No body wants to try and fix problems just pass the buck.

[MorningStar]

I'm sure there's a few here who can offer suggestions.

Hmmm ... Well, the living room would be a rather odd place. It would get in the way in their small kitchen. Their kids sleep in their bedroom and his sister lives in the other bedroom. No garage, bathroom is too small ... If they had a yard, I suppose the backyard might work, but then the neighbors would see ... I'd make him dance around the pole. Dork.

[MorningStar]

Agreed. But she never wears them. NOt my point.

If I ever enter the workplace again, I'm going to wear flannel and Billy Bob teeth so men will leave me the heck alone!

[Zoidberg]

Because it degrades and sexualizes the children. It reinforces negative behavior in return for attention (and usually negative attention at that). It robs them of thier innocence in favor of the highly sexualized depravity sold by Spears, Madonna, and Hilton.

Clearly, as this thread has shown, men can behave as something other than ravening beasts. Shouldn't we expect our daughters to behave as something other than harlots?

There might be a correlation between the amount of fabric that has gone into a person's outfit and prostitution. Which does not mean that just because somone wears a mini-skirt, they are a prostitute or their role models are prostitutes. Prostitutes also eat, sleep, excercise, take care of their children, some of them go to Church. Not all prostitutes wear clothes you would consider immodest in public. So should your daughters avoid ALL the behaviors prostitutes engage in?

Prostitution is also legal in some countries. If you live in the Netherlands, for instance, you can't even say that prostitution is a crime because it isn't. You can say it's a sin all you want, but the amount of clothing one wears does not make anyone a prostitute. You can wear very revealing attire and still not engage in premarital sex. Jessica Simpson was a virgin on her wedding night.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

There might be a correlation between the amount of fabric that has gone into a person's outfit and prostitution. Which does not mean that just because somone wears a mini-skirt, they are a prostitute or their role models are prostitutes. Prostitutes also eat, sleep, excercise, take care of their children, some of them go to Church. Not all prostitutes wear clothes you would consider immodest in public. So should your daughters avoid ALL the behaviors prostitutes engage in?

Prostitution is also legal in some countries. If you live in the Netherlands, for instance, you can't even say that prostitution is a crime because it isn't. You can say it's a sin all you want, but the amount of clothing one wears does not make anyone a prostitute. You can wear very revealing attire and still not engage in premarital sex. Jessica Simpson was a virgin on her wedding night.

Are people claiming that there is a link to prostitution and skimpy clothes?

[AddamS]

One word solution = Burqa

May be hard to swim in though....

[selek]

There might be a correlation between the amount of fabric that has gone into a person's outfit and prostitution. Which does not mean that just because somone wears a mini-skirt, they are a prostitute or their role models are prostitutes.

I never said there was. Nonetheless, the sexualization and objectification are very real- as is the persistent message that a woman must "flaunt her attributes" in order to receive attention. I would very much prefer that my daughters and their peers not be deprived of thier choldhood in worship of the fashionable or futile pursuit of the approval of Babylon.

Prostitutes also eat, sleep, excercise, take care of their children, some of them go to Church. Not all prostitutes wear clothes you would consider immodest in public. So should your daughters avoid ALL the behaviors prostitutes engage in?

Actually, I would concentrate on the sexualization and objectification- the immodest clothes and behaviors, the lewd flirting, and the idea that their self-worth stems from how many men they can get to pant in unison.

Prostitution is also legal in some countries. If you live in the Netherlands, for instance, you can't even say that prostitution is a crime because it isn't.

And this is relevant to what, per se?

You can say it's a sin all you want, but the amount of clothing one wears does not make anyone a prostitute.

I beleive I answered this rather facile objection above.

You can wear very revealing attire and still not engage in premarital sex. Jessica Simpson was a virgin on her wedding night.

Good for her- but many of the people who bought her message were not and will not be.

[Zakuska]

You can wear very revealing attire and still not engage in premarital sex. Jessica Simpson was a virgin on her wedding night.

CFR...