Bikini's

[Lamanite]

Lamanite, you cannot control other people-they have agency just as you do. If this is such an extreme problem for you that you cannot control your thoughts when you see someone in a bikini, then maybe you need to exercise your agency and stay away from pools and such.

Please drop the notion that you can foist responsibility for your reaction on others--otherwise, you'll never learn to discipline yourself or your thoughts. Until you accept this fact, you will always be able to rationalize and absolve yourself mentally from having to really deal with your own responses--and your own choices.

Do women need to be concerned about modesty and how others view them? Yes, but you can't do anything about their choices--you can only do something about your own.

whoa! what a tongue lashing

Where did I say this problem was extreme? I behaved myself. And controled my thoughts. However, I would appreciate a little help from the sisters in reducing the number of times I have to resist staring at your barely covered areola!

[Zoidberg]

Are people claiming that there is a link to prostitution and skimpy clothes?

Methinks people are. I'm just saying that prostitues who want to attract a client are more likely to wear revealing attire rather than a burkha. That's the only link I see. But it doesn't mean that everybody who wears mini-skirts is a prostitute. Or wants to be a prostitute. Or wants to have sex at all, for that matter. Or wants to manipulate men into doing things for them. How men interpret it is their own responsibility. One thing's for sure: it should NOT be interpreted as an invitation to anything. Abusers (regardless of their sex) will continue to say the victim somehow provoked them or "asked for it". What we really need to do is try to eradicate the "asking for it" mentality, not tell women to be invisible.

[selek]

One thing's for sure: it should NOT be interpreted as an invitation to anything. Abusers (regardless of their sex) will continue to say the victim somehow provoked them or "asked for it". What we really need to do is try to eradicate the "asking for it" mentality, not tell women to be invisible.

Now this I agree with. First time for everything, eh, 'Zoid?

[MorningStar]

CFR...

I saw her make that claim on Conan O'Brien years ago.

[Lamanite]

Because it degrades and sexualizes the children. It reinforces negative behavior in return for attention (and usually negative attention at that). It robs them of thier innocence in favor of the highly sexualized depravity sold by Spears, Madonna, and Hilton.

Clearly, as this thread has shown, men can behave as something other than ravening beasts. Shouldn't we expect our daughters to behave as something other than harlots?

For once I agree with Selek! I don't know if selek is excited as I am?

[Zakuska]

I'm just saying that prostitues who want to attract a client are more likely to wear revealing attire rather than a burkha.

Why does this remind me of a belly dancer?

Gen 38

12

[Zoidberg]

I never said there was.

Good.

Actually, I would concentrate on the sexualization and objectification- the immodest clothes and behaviors, the lewd flirting, and the idea that their self-worth stems from how many men they can get to pant in unison.

I'm a big fan of eliminating objectification. I would never get a boob job, I'm trying to condition myself to be able to feel as confident without any make-up on as I do when I'm wearing make-up, I wish I had never pierced my ears. But it's all personal. I don't like all these things because I realize that they were invented to make women look more appealing to men, more like a pretty thing to look at. To other people these things can have an entirely different meaning. Maybe it helps them express their individuality. It's the intentions that matter, not the appearance.

And this is relevant to what, per se?

Just a factoid.

CFR...

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&...=1&.intl=us

Where did I say this problem was extreme?

My question is does these young women bear any responsibility?

[selek]

For once I agree with Selek! I don't know if selek is excited as I am?

Considering that your excitement is what got this whole merry-go-round started, I think it's best we not go there. You're not my type.

And yes, I'm pleased that we can find common ground.

[Zoidberg]

Now this I agree with. First time for everything, eh, 'Zoid?

Hmm, I suppose the outer darkness has frozen over.

Why does this remind me of a belly dancer?

Gen 38

12

[myleague]

If you can't recall the color of her eyes you were looking in the wrong place.

[Hoops22]

If you can't recall the color of her eyes you were looking in the wrong place.

She had eyes?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Hmm, I suppose the outer darkness has frozen over.

Exactly. Acting like a prostitute can be righteous behavior.

Correction outer darkness has unthawed.

[Zakuska]

But being a prostitute is in the eyes of the beholder... Apparently... Barkha clad women can be Prostitutes... depending on the culture you are in.

PS. I was hoping for a little somthing more than Hersay. :

Beings how she made it a point to add that to her Bio... makes me question her motives.

[selek]

Hmm, I suppose the outer darkness has frozen over.

Exactly. Acting like a prostitute can be righteous behavior.

Actually, in context his statement is a confession of his own guilt, rather than praise of her

behavior.

In context, she donned a disguise to fulfill a righteous purpose. She wasn't out acting like this day in and day out.

[DH]

She had eyes?

LOL

A t-shirt I recently saw for sale had an arrow pointing upwards and said "I'm up here."

Seriously, though, I think we need to strike some kind of balance. On the one hand, we shouldn't make women assume all the responsibility for our thoughts and make them wrap themselves head to foot in yards of cloth. On the other hand, neither should women prance around naked and expect men never to let their thoughts stray. I guess it's the equal partner thing, huh?

[Zoidberg]

But being a prostitute is in the eyes of the beholder... Apparently... Barkha clad women can be Prostitutes... depending on the culture you are in.

Which is exactly what I was saying. In this culture, however, I would say you are more likely to see a prostitute in a mini-skirt than in a burkha. Not that I care one way or the other.

Actually, in context his statement is a confession of his own guilt, rather than praise of her

behavior.

Well, until he learned the context of her behavior, he was going to stone her for the same behavior. Which is why I said the person's intentions are what matters. Women wearing pants used to be considered shocking and inappropriate many decades ago, even though it did not imply showing any skin. And women's underwear back then covered as much skin as pants did. But I would say there was a big difference between women who ran around in their underwear to make an easy buck and avoid hard manual labor and feminists who wore pants that were no less revealing than their contemporary women's underwear to make a social statement of equality between the sexes. You got the idea.

[MorningStar]

Good.

I'm a big fan of eliminating objectification. I would never get a boob job, I'm trying to condition myself to be able to feel as confident without any make-up on as I do when I'm wearing make-up, I wish I had never pierced my ears. But it's all personal. I don't like all these things because I realize that they were invented to make women look more appealing to men, more like a pretty thing to look at. To other people these things can have an entirely different meaning. Maybe it helps them express their individuality. It's the intentions that matter, not the appearance.

Just a factoid.

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&...=1&.intl=us

I saw this show on PBS years ago that claimed make-up was designed to make it appear as if a woman is aroused - the cheeks flushing, lips swelling and turning more pink, and it said men like cleavage because it reminded them of buttocks. I think the eye make-up was supposed to give the appearance of the pupils dilating or something like that. I don't think they ever stated where they got these "facts" from, but it was interesting. And funny.

[Zoidberg]

Seriously, though, I think we need to strike some kind of balance. On the one hand, we shouldn't make women assume all the responsibility for our thoughts and make them wrap themselves head to foot in yards of cloth. On the other hand, neither should women prance around naked and expect men never to let their thoughts stray. I guess it's the equal partner thing, huh?

Substitute "any" for "all the", and I will agree with you. I am not responsible for what anyone thinks about me. Ever. I am responsible for my own intentions and behavior. If someone misinterprets my intentions and behavior, why should I care? I do not control anyone else and can't ensure that no one ever misinterprets what I say or do, or how I look. If we all walked around naked, "modesty" wouldn't be a concern. In the current society I wouldn't go to the mall wearing nothing but sunscreen, boyshorts, a tank top and flip-flops, even though it would be comfortable and enough to protect my vulnerable areas and protect my body from sun exposure. I also understand that since we've been covering up certain body parts for so long, they have come to be overly eroticized and if I exposed them now, it could be distracting to some guys. So I don't do it out of courtesy (and because it's illegal; if it were legal, I probably still wouldn't do it - out of courtesy; and habit). Just like some guys open doors for women out of courtesy (and some women don't like it and consider it condescending, let me assure you). I'm sure a lot of guys wouldn't mind at all if I walked around completely naked.

[Lamanite]

I'm sure a lot of guys wouldn't mind at all if I walked around completely naked.

Ok being completely honest (and it brings up an issue that could be a whole other thread) is that your statement completely depends on your figure. The two ends of the spectrum would either cause revulsion or complete excitement.

The problem with being completely honest is that usually it puts me in the minority(only cuz I'm one of few who can be honest about my character defects) and then I'm vilified for it.

PS Your boy shorts and tank top outfit sounded sooper cute!

[Zoidberg]

Ok being completely honest (and it brings up an issue that could be a whole other thread) is that your statement completely depends on your figure. The two ends of the spectrum would either cause revulsion or complete excitement.

I would say my figure falls closer to the unattainable ideal of currently popular models than that of an average female (I'm also underfat, which is not very healthy). Not that I deserve any credit for it, I don't even excercise. I would also say that if someone whose figure would not be considered appealing by most men wanted to go to a nudist colony, they have a full right to do so without being humiliated by people's callous comments. Men seem to be able to understand that it's polite to hold back one's revulsion at the sight of someone better than the fact that it's also polite to hold back one's arousal. Not that I ever accused you of not holding it back.

The problem with being completely honest is that usually it puts me in the minority(only cuz I'm one of few who can be honest about my character defects) and then I'm vilified for it.

I commend your honesty. You should be able to vent here or anywhere else and receive empathy from people, and I empathize with you. However, thinking that women should bear any responsibility for the problems you are experiencing is wrong. Which is the only thing I've ever had problems with.

I don't think anyone should be judged for what is beyond their control. So I'm not judging you for paying attention, and I'm sure God won't, either.

[Lamanite]

I would say my figure falls closer to the unattainable ideal of currently popular models than that of an average female (I'm also underfat, which is not very healthy). Not that I deserve any credit for it, I don't even excercise. I would also say that if someone whose figure would not be considered appealing by most men wanted to go to a nudist colony, they have a full right to do so without being humiliated by people's callous comments. Men seem to be able to understand that it's polite to hold back one's revulsion at the sight of someone better than the fact that it's also polite to hold back one's arousal. Not that I ever accused you of not holding it back.

I commend your honesty. You should be able to vent here or anywhere else and receive empathy from people, and I empathize with you. However, thinking that women should bear any responsibility for the problems you are experiencing is wrong. Which is the only thing I've ever had problems with.

I don't think anyone should be judged for what is beyond their control. So I'm not judging you for paying attention, and I'm sure God won't, either.

I'm not sure what underfat means? Not that I understand most of todays fitness terms. My BMI says I'm obese but I'm 10% body fat and 225lbs. I don't get it.

I think after this lengthy discussion I've come to a couple of conclusions.

1. My reaction is normal.

2. My restraint from mental masturbation was comendable.

3. Although I wish women would be more aware of the affect they have on men and make changes where needed, I realize this is more of a fantasy than a reality.

4. She is in no way culpable. I'm a big boy and will continue to do my best at doing my best.

5. Since I'm doing so well now I'm sure I could easily handle a posted picture of zoid just to test my resolve.

[Bond...James Bond]

I can't believe a discussion on bikini's went 8+ pages. Here's my assessment:

Bikinis==good

Taxes==bad

Stick to that and it's all downhill.

[katherine the great]

The problem with being completely honest is that usually it puts me in the minority(only cuz I'm one of few who can be honest about my character defects) and then I'm vilified for it.

Aw--come on! No one is vilifying you. We just want to you take it like a man! (stand up straight and stick your chest out!)

[Zoidberg]

I'm not sure what underfat means?

That's what the chart that came with my scales said; I think I had 15% body fat last I checked, even though it's healthy to have at least something like 21% for a woman my age. I would say 10% is pretty good and healthy for a man, but I'm no expert by any means.

I think after this lengthy discussion I've come to a couple of conclusions.

1. My reaction is normal.

2. My restraint from mental masturbation was comendable.

3. Although I wish women would be more aware of the affect they have on men and make changes where needed, I realize this is more of a fantasy than a reality.

4. She is in no way culpable. I'm a big boy and will continue to do my best at doing my best.

5. Since I'm doing so well now I'm sure I could easily handle a posted picture of zoid just to test my resolve.

Good conclusions! Although I suggest we don't test the last one since my husband might misinterpret it

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I would say my figure falls closer to the unattainable ideal of currently popular models than that of an average female (I'm also underfat, which is not very healthy). Not that I deserve any credit for it, I don't even excercise. I would also say that if someone whose figure would not be considered appealing by most men wanted to go to a nudist colony, they have a full right to do so without being humiliated by people's callous comments. Men seem to be able to understand that it's polite to hold back one's revulsion at the sight of someone better than the fact that it's also polite to hold back one's arousal. Not that I ever accused you of not holding it back.

I commend your honesty. You should be able to vent here or anywhere else and receive empathy from people, and I empathize with you. However, thinking that women should bear any responsibility for the problems you are experiencing is wrong. Which is the only thing I've ever had problems with.

I don't think anyone should be judged for what is beyond their control. So I'm not judging you for paying attention, and I'm sure God won't, either.

Are you claiming to be a bean pole?