Man of lawlessness

[3DOP]

14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Could this anti-establishment attitude have anything to do with your foray into the Grateful Dead world? Those Oregon ‘93 shows were hot!

A fair question. I doubt it could have been of much influence. There might be a loose parallel between being "busted down on Bourbon Street", and "busted" for driving a car with a fake license advertising a Bible translation?

I am sorry to say that I can understand how you thought I was talking about myself. I was not speaking in the third person. No worries. I see now how it reads that way. Happily, I have never been in jail.

I worked with a guy for one day. He was complaining about his wife. She was a "goodie two shoes", and he found it irritating I guess. To prove his point to me he exclaimed, "She hasn't even been in the back of a police car!"

Keep on Truckin', Miserere!

3 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, 3DOP said:

worked with a guy for one day. He was complaining about his wife. She was a "goodie two shoes", and he found it irritating I guess. To prove his point to me he exclaimed, "She hasn't even been in the back of a police car!"

He would have hated me.  Never even got a parking ticket, let alone a speeding one.

[Tony uk]

23 hours ago, 3DOP said:

worked with a guy for one day. He was complaining about his wife. She was a "goodie two shoes", and he found it irritating I guess. To prove his point to me he exclaimed, "She hasn't even been in the back of a police

Sounds to me, like a wife to be proud of.

[Orthodox Christian]

Hello everyone, and thankyou for your replies. So, to return to my original post, some of you asked me to elaborate. First of all, I'm not trying to say that the end times are upon us, I don't know that, nor does anyone else. However, and this might be a bit of a ramble, that the "mystery of lawlessness works" as St Paul says, seems to be the reality through which we are living. Whenever the man of lawlessness is dealt with is for God to know, unfortunately though it seems his influence is here and now and has been with humanity throughout our existance. It is a malign influence, an opposition to the goodness of God, and it seems to me that it's malignancy has become extremely brazen. I feel that this brazeness of evil has escalated throughout the 20th century and is now hurtling with great momentum in the present moment. I am going to follow my thoughts here at the risk of offending. However, it seems to me, that God was very specific about those things He values and those he abhors, and I feel that through the 20th century until our present time we have followed or embraced those that He abhors. Divorce has been almost universally accepted in Christian countries. Adultery is accepted seemingly as just one of the things. The worship of money is very evident especially amongst the leaders of our countries. The widespread acceptance of abortion on demand, and and the push towards euthanasia that is ongoing. Dare I say, same sex marriage, gender realignment. Thought and expression control which we are seeing throughout the world, and genocide, which has been happening throughout the world since history has been able to record it. But now, in our time, we are seeing man destroy God's image in his fellow man, openly, shockingly, and sometimes glorying in it. A certain leader of a country described his perceived enemies as Amalek. A Rabbi, who does not share the ideology of this leader declared that leader as Amalek personified in that he is acting in the spirit of Amalek, what he is doing is against God. It is this bloodthirsty, murderous spirit that seems so brazen to me. Genocide has been happening all my life (I was born in 1949), there have been wars all my life somewhere in the world and to my shame, I have dismissed them as something just happening somewhere else. But this new openness to display dreadful events as they unfold, and are wilfully created, has both shocked me and brought home to me what I have been ignoring all my life, Lord have mercy. I have played my part in this sin, I have thought that certain of those things mentioned above are progressive. That those countries that reject them are somewhat backward. But are they, why should they have to accept Western values, that are those of the spirit of lawlessness I feel, and if they do not bend their knees to the West we will punish them. Many of these countries are Muslim, and throughout the Western world Islam is condemned as evil, yet they reject the values of the spirit of lawlessness, so their governments have to be changed and supplanted by ones favourable to the West. They who are not Christian uphold the values of God, may He forgive and restore us through the Grace of the Holy Spirit. Though I feel that God has given us up to our evil inclinations, and these events are happening because of this, I know that He sees what we do and He will not be mocked, and if He chooses to visit upon us that which we have visited upon others then He is justified, because it's no more than we deserve. The Christian nations have abandoned God in favour of open pride, vanity and mammon, we have all turned away from him, and this is where we are now: openly considering the possibility of using nuclear weapons. May God have mercy upon us all, that is what I pray for every day, because I believe that it is the most powerful weapon we have. Only He can change the hearts of man, so that's my prayer. God bless

Edited Saturday at 08:47 PM by Orthodox Christian

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Hello everyone, and thankyou for your replies. So, to return to my original post, some of you asked me to elaborate. First of all, I'm not trying to say that the end times are upon us, I don't know that, nor does anyone else. However, and this might be a bit of a ramble, that the "mystery of lawlessness works" as St Paul says, seems to be the reality through which we are living. Whenever the man of lawlessness is dealt with is for God to know, unfortunately though it seems his influence is here and now and has been with humanity throughout our existance. It is a malign influence, an opposition to the goodness of God, and it seems to me that it's malignancy has become extremely brazen. I feel that this brazeness of evil has escalated throughout the 20th century and is now hurtling with great momentum in the present moment. I am going to follow my thoughts here at the risk of offending. However, it seems to me, that God was very specific about those things He values and those he abhors, and I feel that through the 20th century until our present time we have followed or embraced those that He abhors. Divorce has been almost universally accepted in Christian countries. Adultery is accepted seemingly as just one of the things. The worship of money is very evident especially amongst the leaders of our countries. The widespread acceptance of abortion on demand, and and the push towards euthanasia that is ongoing. Dare I say, same sex marriage, gender realignment. Thought and expression control which we are seeing throughout the world, and genocide, which has been happening throughout the world since history has been able to record it. But now, in our time, we are seeing man destroy God's image in his fellow man, openly, shockingly, and sometimes glorying in it. A certain leader of a country described his perceived enemies as Amakek. A Rabbi, who does not share the ideology of this leader declared that leader as Amakek personified in that he is acting in the spirit of Amakek, what he is doing is against God. It is this bloodthirsty, murderous spirit that seems so brazen to me. Genocide has been happening all my life (I was born in 1949), there have been wars all my life somewhere in the world and to my shame, I have dismissed them as something just happening somewhere else. But this new openness to display dreadful events as they unfold, and are wilfully created, has both shocked me and brought home to me what I have been ignoring all my life, Lord have mercy. I have played my part in this sin, I have thought that certain of those things mentioned above are progressive. That those countries that reject them are somewhat backward. But are they, why should they have to accept Western values, that are those of the spirit of lawlessness I feel, and if they do not bend their knees to the West we will punish them. Many of these countries are Muslim, and throughout the Western world Islam is condemned as evil, yet they reject the values of the spirit of lawlessness, so their governments have to be changed and supplanted by ones favourable to the West. They who are not Christian uphold the values of God, may He forgive and restore us through the Grace of the Holy Spirit. Though I feel that God has given us up to our evil inclinations, and these events are happening because of this, I know that He sees what we do and He will not be mocked, and if He chooses to visit upon us that which we have visited upon others then He is justified, because it's no more than we deserve. The Christian nations have abandoned God in favour of open pride, vanity and mammon, we have all turned away from him, and this is where we are now: openly considering the possibility of using nuclear weapons. May God have mercy upon us all, that is what I pray for every day, because I believe that it is the most powerful weapon we have. Only He can change the hearts of man, so that's my prayer. God bless

Global conflict levels are still very low compared to most of recorded history.

Also I think you meant Amalek.

[The Nehor]

16 hours ago, Tony uk said:

Sounds to me, like a wife to be proud of.

Depends why you were in the police car. If it was due to a protest or defending the marginalized or other good things then it makes an awesome wife.

[Orthodox Christian]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Global conflict levels are still very low compared to most of recorded history.

Also I think you meant Amalek.

That may be so, however the destruction that we are now capable of is surely far greater. Sorry about the mispel.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

That may be so, however the destruction that we are now capable of is surely far greater. Sorry about the mispel.

While we have great potential to destroy the nuclear weapon detente has led to the long peace in which peer competitors powers with nuclear weapons don’t openly fight against each other.

[Tony uk]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Depends why you were in the police car. If it was due to a protest or defending the marginalized or other good things then it makes an awesome wife.

Hi Nehor

I was thinking more about a wife considered a 'goody two shoes'. That's a wife I would be proud of. 😊

[Orthodox Christian]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

While we have great potential to destroy the nuclear weapon detente has led to the long peace in which peer competitors powers with nuclear weapons don’t openly fight against each other.

As I said there have been wars all over the world all my life. The fact that nuclear powers have restrained themselves, well since the great Hiroshima experiment, from open warfare between themselves doesn't  surely constitute a long peace. As you say, they don't  openly fight each other, they fight their battles on foreign soil. And what is achieved? Christian countries have betrayed God by having no regard for humanity, they do not love their fellow man...sadly

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

As I said there have been wars all over the world all my life. The fact that nuclear powers have restrained themselves, well since the great Hiroshima experiment, from open warfare between themselves doesn't  surely constitute a long peace. As you say, they don't  openly fight each other, they fight their battles on foreign soil. And what is achieved? Christian countries have betrayed God by having no regard for humanity, they do not love their fellow man...sadly

What was achieved? A long peace. That is what historians call it. It has prevented the great powers on Earth from directly clashing. Yes, there are some proxy wars though I try to be careful about saying that they are exclusively proxy wars as the nations and powers on the ground have agency and are making decisions too. Reducing all nations to puppets of great powers is simplistic.

However, on the whole, conflict is down.

They don’t love their fellow man? Well, that is not at all new. There was no utopian age where they did. This isn’t a new development that shows that Satan is somehow winning. By this standard Satan has always been winning.

[The Nehor]

I should be clear. I am not saying humanity on Earth is in a good place right now. We aren’t. But military conflict isn’t the big problem. There is less of that at the moment.

[manol]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

However, on the whole, conflict is down.

Agreed.

And there are other yardsticks that might be used to gauge whether we have made progress.

How much cruelty are we comfortable with, be it towards marginalized individuals or groups, or animals?  We still have a long ways to go, but our trajectory is in the right direction. 

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, manol said:

Agreed.

And there are other yardsticks that might be used to gauge whether we have made progress.

How much cruelty are we comfortable with, be it towards marginalized individuals or groups, or animals?  We still have a long ways to go, but our trajectory is in the right direction. 

It's not cruelty, it's apathy. Squatters have taken over my parents property in between owners the police refused to enforce the law because if they do arrest them the courts will just let them out of jail.

I see tens of people on the streets in Eureka with signs out begging for money.  They  could get jobs but the city pays them to do nothing, the city also pays them if they have a dog. So they sit around, with their dogs and their signs and philosophize while people like me go to work and pay taxes so they can have freebies. It pays 25 bucks an hour to work at McDonald's now. We can't keep workers in the shipyard, we can't pay them enough. It's ironic that we are struggling because the government won't pay their bills. Between the Coast Guard and the City they owe about 80 grand. The work has been long done and approved. Pretty soon I'll be out on the street with a sign that says "need money the government won't pay their bills"

The apathy that I see in this state makes me believe we deserve to be conquered. I drive up and down the state about four times a month and some things are pretty disgusting.

I just can't imagine standing before God and Judgment Day and when you ask me what I did with my life and I say well I was a squatter I took over people's property and worked on stuff that I stole until they kicked me out legally or tell God that I stood on a street corner with the sign asking for money day in and day out.

I think a lot of people believe there is no God and there is not going to be judgment day.

Edited yesterday at 04:44 AM by rodheadlee

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

It's not cruelty, it's apathy. Squatters have taken over my parents property in between owners the police refused to enforce the law because if they do arrest them the courts will just let them out of jail.

I see tens of people on the streets in Eureka with signs out begging for money.  They  could get jobs but the city pays them to do nothing, the city also pays them if they have a dog. So they sit around, with their dogs and their signs and philosophize while people like me go to work and pay taxes so they can have freebies. It pays 25 bucks an hour to work at McDonald's now. We can't keep workers in the shipyard, we can't pay them enough. It's ironic that we are struggling because the government won't pay their bills. Between the Coast Guard and the City they owe about 80 grand. The work has been long done and approved. Pretty soon I'll be out on the street with a sign that says "need money the government won't pay their bills"

The apathy that I see in this state makes me believe we deserve to be conquered. I drive up and down the state about four times a month and some things are pretty disgusting.

I just can't imagine standing before God and Judgment Day and when you ask me what I did with my life and I say well I was a squatter I took over people's property and worked on stuff that I stole until they kicked me out legally or tell God that I stood on a street corner with the sign asking for money day in and day out.

I think a lot of people believe there is no God and there is not going to be judgment day.

So the problem is the impoverished, the marginalized, and the oppressed and they are the reason that God’s judgement will fall upon us.

*checks Bible, Book of Mormon, and D&C*

Well, that seems to be a radical interpretation of Christianity in general and the LDS faith as well.

“Blessed are the wealthy for the impoverished oppress them horribly by not working enough for their enrichment. Cursed are the poor for they are useless layabouts and shall be cast into hell.”

[Calm]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

“Blessed are the wealthy for the impoverished oppress them horribly by not working enough for their enrichment. Cursed are the poor for they are useless layabouts and shall be cast into hell.”

I don’t believe that is an accurate picture of what Rod said. I think he sees the villain as the system that sets up no motivation for the poor, which includes penalizing them when they work hard to improve their situation.  I had an acquaintance that was in subsidized housing that had to quit her part time nursing training job as her rent was raised with her new paycheck to more money that she was earning (she was just barely over the limit).

He also does seem critical of those who he sees as taking advantage of the system and disrespecting others.  Perhaps he sees a percentage of the poor who have essentially been bullied by the system as turning into bullies themselves, which unfortunately is sometimes a result of being abused.  

I believe when people are not respected, they get burned out, too tired to put effort into the nicer things of life and for some, that means losing respect for others…especially if one sees them as part of the system that takes advantage of them, getting their efforts and resources while giving the minimal back…or less than the minimal.  How does it make sense that someone can work full time or more and still not be able to afford rent or even their own small home (even just a one room apartment with working utilities)?  

The poor rarely are treated with respect  imo by our economic system as even when there is help from what I have seen it’s pretty dehumanizing to apply to get it and keep it, especially when you lack resources to begin with.  Imagine what it must be like to depend on a public library where anyone can walk by and see and hear what one is doing.  How hard to keep track of all the information one needs when one doesn’t have a home or even a car to keep them in.  It’s difficult enough to apply online to government programs in the comfort of one’s own home.  We have had to do so for our daughter and trying to get the right information is so time consuming and costly, one instruction that was wrong took us months of phone calls and reapplications and has probably cost us about 10,000$ that we weren’t expecting because insurance first told us everything was paid and then they reassessed it and each procedure we had then gone ahead with was thousands on top of a ‘low’ premium of $500).  And we can’t do anything about it because their reps aren’t ‘official’ in determining actual costs.  

The poor have little motivation to save when there is no safety net for them that doesn’t send them back to square one…that is if they could save.  They have little motivation to set down roots when they can’t afford rent and will never be able to afford a home.  I can see why squatters resist having to move on yet again to delay as long as possible having to enter the struggle of finding a safe(ish) place to stay that they can afford even as my heart breaks for Rod having to deal with the squatters while mourning his father and dealing with all the crap that comes with trying to resolve an estate (what a nightmare that can be).

Our economic culture is awful for the poor and crappy for the low income, not that great for the true middle class and for the upper middle class..if anyone has health issues or other difficulties it can feel like a minefield just walking through it even if the anxiety is more about the unknown than actual fear one if going to be homeless or unable to get basic healthcare (we can always downsize).  Even with our comfortable income there is still some what I see as pretty basic healthcare for myself and my daughter can’t afford and it’s so frustrating knowing there is something out there that would help, but is beyond our reach.  For us it’s two drugs that insurance won’t cover, but we both get the drugs we need to actually survive.  

She doesn’t have to risk living with her blood sugars too high so her insulin lasts longer.  There are too many in our society who live that way.  I don’t understand how the power people and very wealthy can stand to live with themselves (at the very least they could insist higher wages for the lower income people that work for them even if the change was pretty insignificant per person).  I get the masses who feel their voice wouldn’t be heard so they don’t make the effort.  I feel that way myself. 

Edited yesterday at 09:05 PM by Calm

[InCognitus]

On 5/27/2026 at 8:34 AM, theplains said:

I believe this great apostasy points to the period just before the Second Coming, not a period that
started two millennia ago.

Yes, you have said this many times before, but this interpretation contradicts Paul's statement in verse 7 of 2 Thessalonians, which is that the man of sin was "already at work" in his day.

Edited yesterday at 09:34 PM by InCognitus

[rodheadlee]

On 5/31/2026 at 6:32 AM, The Nehor said:

So the problem is the impoverished, the marginalized, and the oppressed and they are the reason that God’s judgement will fall upon us.

*checks Bible, Book of Mormon, and D&C*

Well, that seems to be a radical interpretation of Christianity in general and the LDS faith as well.

“Blessed are the wealthy for the impoverished oppress them horribly by not working enough for their enrichment. Cursed are the poor for they are useless layabouts and shall be cast into hell.”

Whatever. 

[Stargazer]

On 5/28/2026 at 8:20 PM, 3DOP said:

I worked with a guy for one day. He was complaining about his wife. She was a "goodie two shoes", and he found it irritating I guess. To prove his point to me he exclaimed, "She hasn't even been in the back of a police car!" 

Well, I got her beat. When I was about 4 years old, a friend and I wandered away from our street on our tricycles and got lost and separated. Next thing I remember was a police car pulling up to me, with my friend in the back seat eating an ice cream the officer had bought him. I got put in the back with him, but instead of giving me an ice cream, too, the officer drove us directly to my house and handed me over to my parents, then took my friend to his house. I am still very resentful I didn't get my ice cream!

That was just the start of my life of crime!

[Tacenda]

On 5/30/2026 at 10:28 PM, rodheadlee said:

It's not cruelty, it's apathy. Squatters have taken over my parents property in between owners the police refused to enforce the law because if they do arrest them the courts will just let them out of jail.

I see tens of people on the streets in Eureka with signs out begging for money.  They  could get jobs but the city pays them to do nothing, the city also pays them if they have a dog. So they sit around, with their dogs and their signs and philosophize while people like me go to work and pay taxes so they can have freebies. It pays 25 bucks an hour to work at McDonald's now. We can't keep workers in the shipyard, we can't pay them enough. It's ironic that we are struggling because the government won't pay their bills. Between the Coast Guard and the City they owe about 80 grand. The work has been long done and approved. Pretty soon I'll be out on the street with a sign that says "need money the government won't pay their bills"

The apathy that I see in this state makes me believe we deserve to be conquered. I drive up and down the state about four times a month and some things are pretty disgusting.

I just can't imagine standing before God and Judgment Day and when you ask me what I did with my life and I say well I was a squatter I took over people's property and worked on stuff that I stole until they kicked me out legally or tell God that I stood on a street corner with the sign asking for money day in and day out.

I think a lot of people believe there is no God and there is not going to be judgment day.

I never understand how squatters can do what they do, boggles my mind.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Whatever. 

There are people, unlike squatters, that do need some help. I think often it's mental or ?

[Stargazer]

I am annoyed. I just got done writing a lovely extensive post with tons of relevant data, and what did the site do? It ate it!!! When writing long posts I usually try to save off a copy of the text so it doesn't get eaten by the internet, but I failed to do it this time. 

Drat.