Elder Gilbert, new Q12 member

[Nofear]

Surprised it hasn't been posted yet.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2026/02/12/new-apostle-elder-clark-g-gilbert-called-by-president-oaks/

[supersc]

I saw a SL Trib headliner that labeled Elder Gilbert's call as a "controversial pick."  The article is behind a paywall, so I didn't bother seeking the details. 

It may be referring to the rule that new hires at the Church's higher education institutions must be temple worthy - as evidenced by a current temple recommend.

[ZealouslyStriving]

Just now, supersc said:

I saw a SL Trib headliner that labeled Elder Gilbert's call as a "controversial pick."  The article is behind a paywall, so I didn't bother seeking the details. 

It may be referring to the rule that new hires at the Church's higher education institutions must be temple worthy - as evidenced by a current temple recommend.

If Ms. Stack calls it "controversial", I support it 100%!

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, supersc said:

I saw a SL Trib headliner that labeled Elder Gilbert's call as a "controversial pick."  The article is behind a paywall, so I didn't bother seeking the details. 

It may be referring to the rule that new hires at the Church's higher education institutions must be temple worthy - as evidenced by a current temple recommend.

If you want a list of why he would be considered controversial here are some of the highlights I found digging around various reports:

• Strictly orthodox when operating in academia which has some faculty concerned of what he might do with even more power
• Described as a “culture warrior”, the most extreme one since J. Reuben Clark and Ezra Taft Benson
• Some say he is paranoid about secular groups in academia supposedly out to harm the Church
• Reports that women disproportionately did not get promotions or advancements in CES under his administration when he had the final decision.

I have no idea if these are true, exaggerated, or wrong. Hard to fact check these. The third bullet is probably the strongest from skimming some of his published addresses. Has a very us vs the world mentality. I could see that be a hindrance in some ways but it wouldn’t have to be depending on approach.

I found some of his papers on disruptive innovation which is what he wrote quite a bit about when at Harvard. Nothing there that I think would heavily influence an approach to being an apostle.

[The Nehor]

He is the first Gen X apostle so there’s that. With his relative youth he has a statistically high chance of being prophet at some point.

[The Nehor]

Spent time reading some of his speeches. Some were good. This bit irked me a little:

Quote

Following the Savior: Finally, one of the surest ways to expand our agency is to choose to follow the Savior. In the parable of the rich young ruler the choice to follow the world is juxtaposed with the choice to follow the Savior. In Matthew 19 we read: "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Christ reminds him of the commandments, to which the young ruler replies, "All these things I have kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."[17] I remember when I was preparing to leave a former career and come to BYU-Idaho. We had received a clear answer that this is where the Lord wanted our family. Still, it was hard not to consider that I was only six months away from a promotion that I had spent 10 years working toward. But the Lord had something better, if only I could let go of the path I was on. All of us have something that we hold onto, even as we are obedient in so many other ways. But to truly follow the Savior, we have to choose to follow Him rather than be governed by our possessions, pride, or personal identity.

Yeah, I am not willing to compare giving up a promotion to take a less lucrative but still very lucrative job most people won’t ever have a chance of getting as the equivalent of selling all you have and giving it to the poor.

He used this example a lot:

Quote

 

Years ago, I experienced what it would mean for me to let God prevail in my own life. After an early academic career on the east coast, it became clear that the Lord had prepared a different path that would lead me and my family to Rexburg, Idaho. At the time I lamented to my wife, “I feel like the rich young ruler, only I know how the parable ends, so I’m going to follow the path we are being led to.”

This was hardly the best attitude I might have chosen. The very next morning at a stake leadership meeting, one of the speakers discussed the same parable I had referenced to my wife the night before. He said he felt so sorry for the rich young ruler, as depicted in Heinrich Hoffman’s painting of the parable. He described how the young ruler seemed to be looking away as if he was thinking of everything he would be giving up. This very act of looking away was keeping him from seeing the better path that the Savior was pointing him to. Every time we let God prevail in our lives, we are giving up our natural self for something better in Jesus Christ.

 

Ummmm…..that wasn’t a parable.

[the narrator]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

• Strictly orthodox when operating in academia which has some faculty concerned of what he might do with even more power
•  

Over the past few years, several friends I have in BYU faculty have told me that fears of being spied on, censored, and the pressure to portray a particular type of conservative orthodoxy is the worst that it has been in decades, particularly in Religious Education.

[morgan.deane]

My major concern is that he seems to set up a false dichotomy regarding non LDS thought that is fundamentalist and dogmatic. 

As summarized by the Salt Lake Tribune (so take that for what its worth), when he assessed faculty at BYU he had a level just short of "secular foes", and worse than the "faithful core" and "supportive center" called, "secular first [individuals who] put 'truth' from any source on equal footing with the LDS gospel." 

That's a stunning category to me because Brigham Young told us that we should quest after truth from any source, even those from the "infidel." That sounds like "equal footing" to me. Teachings of Brigham Young chapter two: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-2?lang=eng

Quote

“Mormonism,” so-called, embraces every principle pertaining to life and salvation, for time and eternity. No matter who has it. If the infidel has got truth it belongs to “Mormonism.” The truth and sound doctrine possessed by the sectarian world, and they have a great deal, all belong to this Church.

The church released a famous statement affirming that various religious leaders and philosophers had the light of truth. It's quoted on the church website, titled, "treasuring all truth." https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/treasuring-all-truth

Quote

The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God's light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.

Now maybe I'm biased because as I've studied for my PhD in Chinese history I appreciated Confucianism a great and found many precious truths in it. In my latest book I researched how just war theorists interacted with the Book of Mormon, and I was sad to discover that LDS thinkers were quite shallow compared to them. We just haven't done the work in providing a robust discussion on war and peace. My book was a small attempt to try and change that.

But now, apparently, there's an apostle who thinks those who embrace all truth are one step below an "open foe" for finding truth in non LDS thinkers. 

Maybe the Tribune is incorrect. Maybe Gilbert is referring to those that abandon gospel principles for secular ones, but I don't think that's the case. He clearly values orthodoxy instead of seeking, and subordinates all others. I'm sorry, but I don't want to discriminate against truth based on where it's found.

Even worse, the issues of secular truth conflicting with interpretation of scripture go as far back as Copernicus and Galileo. Reading Galileo's defense against heresy had the same outlines and arguments as an LDS scholar trying to justify their research to LDS fundamentalists. https://inters.org/Galilei-Madame-Christina-Lorraine 

And the newly promoted apostle seems to take the side of inquisitors and dogma instead of the side of light, truth, and knowledge. This is the restored gospel, we should have an apostle who stands against fundamentalism to embrace all truth. 


 

[smac97]

A few thoughts:

We have previously (January 2025) had a thread in which Elder Gilbert was heavily referenced:

Thoughts on the purported "secularization" of BYU

In that thread (started by me), I quoted a Trib article in which Peggy Fletcher-Stack was sounding the alarm and Elder Gilbert's remarks. 

The title of her piece: "BYU professors afraid of crackdown on Clark Gilbert’s version of LDS orthodoxy."

I'll give this to Peggy: She doesn't bury the lede.  "Clark Gilbert's version."  Yeesh.

I also cited a number of articles about Elder Gilbert:

• June 5, 2024: Church schools navigate ‘precarious time,’ Elder Gilbert says in Washington, D.C.
• October 23, 2024: Commissioner of church education: BYU sports can’t drift from core principles
• January 17, 2025: BYU, other Latter-day Saint schools will not drift from church governance, leader says
• January 18, 2025: Stewardship to God is a necessary component of religious freedom, Elder Gilbert says
• January 24, 2025: Religion and church governance will never take a back seat at BYU, pledges LDS education commissioner

The third article was perhaps the most potent in explaining Elder Gilbert's perspective, which was to not allow BYU to become "secularized" such as we have seen at so many other institutions founded by religious groups.  An excerpt from the thread (discussing the third bulleted article) :

Quote

Quote

• Elder Clark G. Gilbert says Latter-day Saint schools will not diverge from church governance.
• Church financial support is one way BYU, other schools will prevent drift.
• The recent update to CES hiring policies also help maintain alignment of faculty.

The long history of American colleges and universities drifting away from the religions that launched and sponsored them won’t repeat at BYU and its sister schools, one of their leaders said Friday night.

“The loss of administrative governance will not happen in the Church Educational System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” said Elder Clark G. Gilbert, a General Authority Seventy and Commissioner of Education.

His message reiterated one he gave at BYU in February 2022. He also directly tied the recent update to the church’s hiring policy, announced in January 2022, to the effort to ensure all Latter-day Saint colleges and universities remain aligned with their sponsoring church.

“The loss of administrative governance will not happen in the Church Educational System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

For the run-of-the-mill Latter-day Saint such as myself, the concept of CES maintaining "administrative governance" of BYU and the Church's other educational institutions seems like a truism, as something as axiomatic as "water is wet" or "circles are round."  That Elder Gilbert is, nevertheless, going out of his way to publicly declare and explain this is, to me, a pretty strong indicator that BYU has, in recent years, allowed some of its administration and faculty members to go a bit rogue, perhaps even to the point of subversion. 

That the Tribune and other folks have, for some years now, publishing histrionic commentary about Elder Gilbert, Pres. Reese, etc., and the assertion - or re-assertion - of the Church's actual and philosophical and religious authority over BYU (including its hiring practices/requirements) is, for me, also a pretty good indicator that BYU has been going off the rails for a while, such that Elder Gilbert and Pres. Reese are now putting it back on track.  
...

Quote

Why universities decouple from religions and BYU won’t

Elder Gilbert said an analysis found three major reasons for the decoupling of universities from religious sponsors. The work was done by James Burtchaell, author of “The Dying of the Light: The Disengagement of Colleges and Universities from Their Christian Churches”:

• Funding sources diversified away from religious sponsors as costs rose.
• Subsequently, university leaders were selected by new stakeholders unaffiliated with the original sponsoring religions.
• Specialization of academic disciplines made it difficult for university leadership to review much of the scholarly work of the faculty.

Elder Gilbert listed the ways church leaders and the Church Education System maintain a stable tie with BYU, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, Ensign College and BYU-Pathway Worldwide.

“For example, the primary funding of BYU comes from the church, and not through grants, government funding, donors or student tuition,” he said. “Similarly, the selection of the university president is made by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

Additionally, the CES Board of Trustees is led by the church’s First Presidency and chaired by church President Russell M. Nelson.

“Our growing religious freedom and aligned governance provide critical protections for the modern religious university,” Elder Gilbert said.

I find this information to be both useful and fascinating.  I am also grateful that The Church and BYU are paying attention to this stuff and taking reparative and mitigating measures against the foregoing "decoupling" / "disengagement" phenomenon seen at other colleges and universities.

I also note that BYU's capacity for resisting this "decoupling" / "disengagement" phenomenon is heavily reliant on its funding, which in turn comes from its sponsoring institution, which for the last many years has become not only financially stable (in contrast to much of The Church's first 100+ years of existence, during which finances were poor or in disarray), but prosperous and governed by long-term thinking and planning.

I felt then, and still now feel, that there was pretty good evidence that BYU needed a course correction, and that Elder Gilbert stepped in and did it.

Another of my remarks (this one about the fifth bulleted article, authored by Peggy Fletcher Stack) :

Quote

Quote

He did not mention in the article or his recent speech the additional requirement that faculty members have a “testimony” of the church’s teachings on “marriage, family and gender,” a demand that goes beyond what the Utah-based faith expects of its 17.2 million members worldwide.

Members can support same-sex marriage, for instance, without fear of losing their “temple recommends,” which permit participation in the faith’s most sacred ceremonies, but BYU faculty cannot.

That extra requirement cuts to the heart of the issue with a number of BYU faculty members — including whether professors or prospective instructors embrace the church’s stances on these culture war issues in the same way some in the hierarchy and lay bishops do. That is worrisome to employees because those ecclesiastical leaders are among the school’s employment gatekeepers.

...

A recent thread centered on discussion of BYU and its future: BYU is at a ‘crossroads’ — Will flagship LDS school be a Notre Dame or a Liberty University?

The thread centered on an article written by Peggy Fletcher-Stack and published by the Salt Lake Tribune on January 14, 2024: BYU is at a ‘crossroads’ — Will flagship LDS school be a Notre Dame or a Liberty University?

The above article was preceded by this one, published on January 6 (also by Fletcher-Stack) : For a number of faculty members, these are dark days at the church-owned school.

Much of the discussion in the previous thread noted above centered on an apparent retrenchment effort at BYU, including quite a bit of hand-wringing on the part of Peggy Fletcher-Stack (via an article published in the Salt Lake Tribune), our @Teancum, and others who speculate about whether BYU will move away from its religious roots and become a heavily secularized school, or whether it will retain its religious roots (and, therefore, deteriorate and lessen itself in reputation and educational excellence).

Peggy Fletcher-Stack and the Tribune even created a moody YouTube video (as in dark and washed-out colors, downer music in the background, etc.) about it (the video was posted on January 6, the same day as the "dark days" article above) :

Gotta love the title: "BYU professors afraid of crackdown on Clark Gilbert’s version of LDS orthodoxy."  So Elder Clark Gilbert, a general authority seventy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and the CES commissioner, presumably appointed by the First Presidency of the Church, is going rogue and crafting his on idiosyncratic "version of LDS orthodoxy" and pushing it on to the faculty and administration at BYU.  That's the narrative.

The Tribune also followed up with a "Mormon Land" podcast on January 8: What is happening at BYU? Two LDS academics explain.

The reaction to the foregoing material has been interesting. 

Sam Brunson posted an article on By Common Consent on January 7 Clark Gilbert, BYU, and Developing Disciples of Jesus Christ

At Public Square Magazine, Carol Rice published this article on January 8: Redefining Higher (and Holier) Education: BYU’s Fusion of Faith and Learning

"A Thoughtful Faith" published this on January 7 in response to the Trib's "Dark Days" article: The Salt Lake Tribune’s INSANE Report On BYU And The Church

(Interestingly, this video currently has over 71,000 views, in contrast to the Trib's January 6 "Black Box" video, which currently has around 12,000 views.)

Meanwhile, the Church seems to be increasingly clear about the direction it intends to take itself and BYU.

June 5, 2024: Church schools navigate ‘precarious time,’ Elder Gilbert says in Washington, D.C.

An excerpt:

  Quote

The gospel-centered missions of BYU and BYU–Pathway Worldwide make them unique and valuable in higher education, Church Educational System leaders said Tuesday, June 4, at the first meeting of the new Commission on Faith-based Universities.
...

Elder Clark G. Gilbert, General Authority Seventy and Church commissioner of education, is one of the inaugural co-chairs of the new commission, along with Shirley Hoogstra, president of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, which represents 180 schools.

“This is a precarious time where schools of diverse faith backgrounds need to work across boundaries to strengthen areas of shared emphasis, from religious freedom to accreditation protections,” Elder Gilbert said. “These relationships didn’t just start around this commission. The Church Educational System has worked with the presidents of other faith-based universities for a generation.”

He said those relationships built a foundation of trust with peer institutions and their presidents.

“Doing this with the American Council on Education gives this effort increased credibility and collective support,” Elder Gilbert said. “Increasingly, our friends of other faiths and our colleagues in the academy are looking not only for engagement but also leadership from the Church Educational System.”

"The gospel-centered missions of BYU and BYU–Pathway Worldwide..."  Language like this, in 2024, merits some real attention.

October 23, 2024: Commissioner of church education: BYU sports can’t drift from core principles

  Quote

No one knows what the future of college sports is going to look like. It was but a few years ago when the transfer portal didn’t exist and paying players was the NCAA’s harshest infraction. Things have changed quickly. The portal has players on the move and NCAA/NIL rulings have student-athletes cashing in.

For church-sponsored BYU, the decision to remain in the game is not always an easy call to make.

“I hear two different voices. Neither is right, but I hear them a lot. On the one hand, it’s ‘We have to be like Texas or Alabama — more money, more facilities, higher pay and chasing after that,” Elder Clark Gilbert, commissioner of church education for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, told the “Y’s Guys” podcast this week.
...
“There are a lot of things that aren’t in our control and things going through the House settlement and NCAA negotiations. We’ll have to work within that,” said Elder Gilbert. “But if it ever came down to the only way to stay in this is to walk away from our values, that would be the end of athletics at BYU. This is not going to happen because we are committed to it from the Board (of Trustees), to the commissioner, to the president, to the athletics director, to the coaches. We have a culture here that is exceptional and I’m confident it won’t happen. There is no other place like this.”
...

Elder Gilbert cited the built-in church structure that is designed to keep BYU, athletics or academics, from drifting. The buck stops at the Board of Trustees, which includes the First Presidency.

“All binding decisions go through (BYU) President Shane Reese to me and then to the full board,” Elder Gilbert said. “No one else can bind the university in any other way, not Tom Holmoe (athletic director), not the donors, and not our coach.”

The commissioner reiterated that no direct tithing is used to support BYU athletics.

“This is a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is we use tithing for the core work of the church,” Elder Gilbert said. “The bad thing is this could make someone say, ‘Great, we can just do whatever we want.’ But the governance remains universally tied to the Church Board of Education.”

January 17, 2025: BYU, other Latter-day Saint schools will not drift from church governance, leader says

  Quote

KEY POINTS

 

• Elder Clark G. Gilbert says Latter-day Saint schools will not diverge from church governance.
• Church financial support is one way BYU, other schools will prevent drift.
• The recent update to CES hiring policies also help maintain alignment of faculty.

The long history of American colleges and universities drifting away from the religions that launched and sponsored them won’t repeat at BYU and its sister schools, one of their leaders said Friday night.

“The loss of administrative governance will not happen in the Church Educational System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” said Elder Clark G. Gilbert, a General Authority Seventy and Commissioner of Education.

His message reiterated one he gave at BYU in February 2022. He also directly tied the recent update to the church’s hiring policy, announced in January 2022, to the effort to ensure all Latter-day Saint colleges and universities remain aligned with their sponsoring church.

“The loss of administrative governance will not happen in the Church Educational System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

For the run-of-the-mill Latter-day Saint such as myself, the concept of CES maintaining "administrative governance" of BYU and the Church's other educational institutions seems like a truism, as something as axiomatic as "water is wet" or "circles are round."  That Elder Gilbert is, nevertheless, going out of his way to publicly declare and explain this is, to me, a pretty strong indicator that BYU has, in recent years, allowed some of its administration and faculty members to go a bit rogue, perhaps even to the point of subversion. 

That the Tribune and other folks have, for some years now, publishing histrionic commentary about Elder Gilbert, Pres. Reese, etc., and the assertion - or re-assertion - of the Church's actual and philosophical and religious authority over BYU (including its hiring practices/requirements) is, for me, also a pretty good indicator that BYU has been going off the rails for a while, such that Elder Gilbert and Pres. Reese are now putting it back on track.  

I am very happy about this.

  Quote

Speaking at the annual J. Reuben Clark Law Society fireside at the Church Office Building in Salt Lake City, Elder Gilbert said the church faces “modern authoritarian forces that would deny religious expression.”

“In my role as the Commissioner of Education in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, these threats come from secular agendas in the media, regulators and even from peers and other academic contemporaries,” he said.

Wow.  Wow.  Elder Gilbert ain't playing around.

  Quote

Why universities decouple from religions and BYU won’t

Elder Gilbert said an analysis found three major reasons for the decoupling of universities from religious sponsors. The work was done by James Burtchaell, author of “The Dying of the Light: The Disengagement of Colleges and Universities from Their Christian Churches”:

• Funding sources diversified away from religious sponsors as costs rose.
• Subsequently, university leaders were selected by new stakeholders unaffiliated with the original sponsoring religions.
• Specialization of academic disciplines made it difficult for university leadership to review much of the scholarly work of the faculty.

Elder Gilbert listed the ways church leaders and the Church Education System maintain a stable tie with BYU, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, Ensign College and BYU-Pathway Worldwide.

“For example, the primary funding of BYU comes from the church, and not through grants, government funding, donors or student tuition,” he said. “Similarly, the selection of the university president is made by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

Additionally, the CES Board of Trustees is led by the church’s First Presidency and chaired by church President Russell M. Nelson.

“Our growing religious freedom and aligned governance provide critical protections for the modern religious university,” Elder Gilbert said.

I find this information to be both useful and fascinating.  I am also grateful that The Church and BYU are paying attention to this stuff and taking reparative and mitigating measures against the foregoing "decoupling" / "disengagement" phenomenon seen at other colleges and universities.

I also note that BYU's capacity for resisting this "decoupling" / "disengagement" phenomenon is heavily reliant on its funding, which in turn comes from its sponsoring institution, which for the last many years has become not only financially stable (in contrast to much of The Church's first 100+ years of existence, during which finances were poor or in disarray), but prosperous and governed by long-term thinking and planning.

The above article continues:

  Quote

The church and CES continue to assert their ability to review faculty alignment through an updated 2022 hiring policy, which requires each new CES hire who is a Latter-day Saint “to hold and be worthy to hold a current temple recommend,” a certificate given to church members who meet personal worthiness standards that show alignment with the faith’s doctrines.

The schools still can hire people who are not church members if they agree to follow the honor code.

“All BYU faculty candidates are interviewed by either the president of the university or the academic vice president, as well as by a general authority, and must be approved by the Board of Trustees,” Elder Gilbert said. Those two interview about 200 candidates per year.

Elder Gilbert has said previously that, “No institutional decision is more important to us than the selection of employees, including faculty, as it has the greatest potential to impact our students.”

Expand  

For those who are indifferent to, or even in favor of, the secularization of BYU, the foregoing statements are going to be tough to swallow.  

For those of us who want BYU to remain, and even enhance and strengthen, its religious moorings and purposes, this is great news.

  Quote

The accountability BYU and its sister schools have given the religious freedom they enjoy

Elder Gilbert argued that full expression of religious freedom by Latter-day Saints includes stewardship to God. He called for “a deeply embedded personal and institutional stewardship” and said it was necessary for full religious expression to flourish.

He noted that Elder Quentin L. Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said that Latter-day Saints will be held accountable to God for the religious freedoms they’ve received and that the Church Educational System would be held accountable for the aligned governance it has been provided.

Expand  

I appreciate that Elder Gilbert is emphasizing the important link between religious liberty and stewardship.

Also, his use of phrases like "aligned governance" is, I think, likely intended to clarify things for observers who may prefer for BYU to follow the well-trodden path toward secularization taken by some other formerly "religious" colleges and universities.  A significant component of the Church's and BYU's decision to not go down that path is to exercise appropriate stewardship of hiring at BYU.

  Quote

Elder Gilbert said stewardship requires the church schools to avoid insularity and seek wider engagement with the broader community. They also must ultimately bless others.

“We ... benefit from the clear and aligned governance provided by the Church Board of Education,” he said. “... For BYU (and the entire Church Educational System) to become the ‘Christ-centered, prophetically directed university of prophecy,’ as President Shane Reese has said in his talk, ‘Becoming BYU,’ our people must feel both a personal and institutional stewardship to God. This stewardship includes civic, intellectual and ministerial accountability.”

Expand  

"Aligned governance..."

BYU as "the ‘Christ-centered, prophetically directed university of prophecy.’"

To paraphrase Mark Twain: "The reports of {the secularization of BYU} are greatly exaggerated."

January 18, 2025: Stewardship to God is a necessary component of religious freedom, Elder Gilbert says

An excerpt:

  Quote

The Church Educational System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fulfills a unique stewardship to God in its efforts to bless lives around the globe.

So said Elder Clark G. Gilbert, General Authority Seventy and commissioner of Church education, as he spoke to the J. Reuben Clark Law Society on Friday, Jan. 17, at the Church Office Building in Salt Lake City.

He described the ways the Church demonstrates civic stewardship, intellectual stewardship and ministerial stewardship as part of its ultimate stewardship to Heavenly Father in properly using heaven-given agency and the Constitutionally protected right of religious freedom to bless the lives of individuals around the world.
...

One way for the Church and its members to show that service and love is to show ministerial stewardship, Elder Gilbert explained.

“Our growing religious freedom and our aligned governance structure from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and our Church schools provide critical protections for the modern religious university. … The faculty and the leadership of the Church Educational System carry a stewardship to God for the opportunities we have been given,” he said.

Expand  

"'Our growing religious freedom and our aligned governance structure from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and our Church schools provide critical protections for the modern religious university.'"

That sure sounds like BYU intends to be a non-secularized "modern religious university," the "governance structure" of which is "aligned" with the Church.

Today, the Tribune published this comment by Peggy Fletcher-Stack: Religion and church governance will never take a back seat at BYU, pledges LDS education commissioner

  Quote

Secular forces in the media, government and academia are thwarting religious expression and freedom on college campuses, the education commissioner for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints warned, vowing it wouldn’t happen at Brigham Young University or any of the faith’s other schools.

The address Friday night from general authority Seventy Clark Gilbert to the J. Reuben Clark Law Society Annual Fireside came in the wake of a Salt Lake Tribune special report detailing the extra level of scrutiny BYU faculty members have faced under Gilbert’s leadership since 2021.

Gilbert, who oversees all of the faith’s seminaries, institutes and schools, declined to be interviewed or to answer specific questions for The Tribune story about his approach to hiring and firing at BYU.

In his speech, however, he reaffirmed his insistence on church governance at religious educational institutions.

Expand  

"{H}e reaffirmed his insistence on church governance at religious educational institutions."

I think . . . not.  Elder Gilbert was speaking on behalf of the Church.  It is the Church's "insistence" about the Church's "governance."

  Quote

Many universities, including Harvard, were founded by religious groups, but they eventually lost their spiritual moorings, Gilbert said, due to three factors:

• Outsourcing funding to “donors, state and federal government, and other nonreligious entities.”
• Ceding the choice of school leadership to nonbelievers, “who increasingly felt less accountable to their sponsoring religious institutions.”
• Allowing peer review of scholarly work to “increasingly [come]…from people who did not support or, in some cases, were even antagonistic, to the religious priorities of the university.”

Such dependence on outsiders will not occur at Latter-day Saint schools, pledged Gilbert, because the church’s entire education system is primarily self-funded and BYU’s board of trustees includes the faith’s governing First Presidency.

Expand  

How very cool. 

  Quote

He cautioned his listeners that “there are concerted efforts to shame and intimidate believers who have traditional moral values and to suppress religious viewpoints and practices.”

Latter-day Saints “must be prepared to counter skeptical audiences with persistence, confidence and rigor,” Gilbert said, “as well as grace and humility for our voices to eventually be heard.”

Gilbert has offered these insights in other venues, including an essay, “Dare to Be Different,” he wrote for church-owned Deseret Magazine after he became education commissioner.

I am glad Elder Gilbert is saying these things.

  Quote

He did not mention in the article or his recent speech the additional requirement that faculty members have a “testimony” of the church’s teachings on “marriage, family and gender,” a demand that goes beyond what the Utah-based faith expects of its 17.2 million members worldwide.

Members can support same-sex marriage, for instance, without fear of losing their “temple recommends,” which permit participation in the faith’s most sacred ceremonies, but BYU faculty cannot.

That extra requirement cuts to the heart of the issue with a number of BYU faculty members — including whether professors or prospective instructors embrace the church’s stances on these culture war issues in the same way some in the hierarchy and lay bishops do. That is worrisome to employees because those ecclesiastical leaders are among the school’s employment gatekeepers.

"{C}ulture war issues."  That is an interesting - and apt - characterization from the Tribune.

Some thoughts/observations:

1. Gratitude for BYU and the Church: I attended BYU, and I am grateful for the opportunity to have done so.  I received a good education and, through hard work and subsidization via The Widow's Mite, I and my wife graduated debt-free.  I am grateful that the Church sponsors BYU, both financially and philosophically.  I appreciated BYU's religious atmosphere.  It helped me realize that I could be "in the world but not of it."

2. Recent Trends/Developments at BYU: I have, in recent years, become concerned about reports of developments at BYU, particularly as pertaining to faculty and administration speaking/acting against the doctrines and practices of The Church.  I have even gone so far as to consider whether there has been some manifestations of a "Long March through the Institutions"-type phenomenon in which some BYU faculty/administration deliberately seek subvert The Church by using their positions to influence and encourage BYU students to stray from the teachings and principles of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, particularly as to matters regarding marriage, sexuality, and CRT.  I think the hullabaloo over Elder Holland's 2021 speech (in which he quoted Pres. Oaks, who in turn was quoting Elder Maxwell, re: "muskets" and the Nauvoo temple) was, for me, a pretty clear indicator that my concerns along these lines were justified (along with the more recent hand-wringing and histrionics at the Tribune).

3. Uniqueness of BYU: BYU was created to be, and should remain, a singular and unique educational institution.  

...

I have previously compared BYU to West Point.  Both are educational institutions with a patron/sponsor that has a very particularized and very specific outlook.  I think it would be patently unreasonable to expect West Point to hire and retain a faculty member who dislikes and speaks and acts against the United States and its military.  There are plenty of other schools that such folks can find work.  West Point, meanwhile, has particularized objectives that require a substantial measure of, as Gordon Monson puts it, "conformity."  An America-hating faculty member at West Point cannot mouth platitudes - as Gordon Monson does - about "seeking truth" as a means of excusing his dislike of and opposition to the raison d'etre of West Point and its sponsoring institution.

So it is, I think, with BYU.  I am not sure "conformity is the thing" at BYU, relative to academic inquiry.  I think the Nerd Herd over there has plenty of room to explore their respective areas of interest.  But if and when "academic freedom" starts being used as a pretext to justify the retention of a faculty member who dislikes and speaks and acts against the Church and its largest educational institution, well, that doesn't quite pass the smell test.
...

4. "Retrenchment" at BYU: If the foregoing concerns are in error, if BYU has, as an institution, not been materially straying from its intended mission and mandates, not been experiencing subversive efforts by some of its faculty and administration, then I will happily stand corrected and breathe a sigh of relief.  

On the other hand, if the foregoing concerns are valid to some extent, such that there has been some subversion going on at BYU by some of its faculty and administration, then I am relieved and gratified to see Elder Gilbert and Pres. Reese - no doubt at the direction of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve - step forward and make necessary and appropriate corrections as to the goings-on at BYU. 

In 2019, Kathleen Flake made the following observation about then-recent news items about the Church's finances (which matters are currently playing out in various lawsuits against the Church) :

Quote

Pondering the merit of added transparency for the church’s finances, Flake asks why the church doesn’t simply open up its records.

Her answer: The alleged problem is not about financial malfeasance, “it’s about competing views of what should be done with Church money and who gets to say so.”

“In other words,” Flake concludes, “this is a power struggle ... and one that we’ve seen before from those who don’t understand Mormonism and how it handles its money.”

I think something similar can be said about recent controversies about BYU's governance, including hiring/retention policies for faculty and administration.  To paraphrase Kathleen Flake, I think such matters are "about competing views of what should be done with the Church's doctrines and policies pertaining to marriage, sexuality, abortion, race relations, etc. and who gets to say so."

I suspect there have been, and are, members of the faculty and administration at BYU who have "competing views" (that is, "competing" against the Church's position) on certain issues which have both a substantial religious/doctrinal dimension and also get a lot of attention in the sociopolitical and social media spheres.  

I suspect that some of these folks have attempted, overtly or subversively or both, to speak and act against the Church and its doctrines and practices, to do so by (mis)appropriating their positions of influence over BYU students, and do these things while also drawing a paycheck from BYU. 
...

I bear no ill will against any BYU faculty/administration who may have, in recent years, been trying to push BYU and BYU students in directions contrary to the Restored Gospel and the Church that houses it.  We live in a pluralistic society, we have extraordinary rights under our system of laws to do as we please, we have the most freedom and the most rights of any people in the history of the world.  However, these folks have no right to speak and act against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints while drawing a paycheck from the school it sponsors.  This is particularly so for those who have done so in a surreptitious, "Long March through the Institutions" sort of way.  These folks cannot continue in this way and stay at BYU.

I am quite pleased to read about Elder Gilbert and Pres. Reese and what they are doing at BYU.  They are preserving its unique character and purpose.

5. Financial Component of BYU's Vitality: As noted above, the Church has identified three reasons other colleges and universities have historically strayed ("disengaged") from their religious roots:

• Funding sources diversified away from religious sponsors as costs rose.
• Subsequently, university leaders were selected by new stakeholders unaffiliated with the original sponsoring religions.
• Specialization of academic disciplines made it difficult for university leadership to review much of the scholarly work of the faculty.

The first and second reasons are intertwined, and both relate to funding.  Elder Gilbert has publicly stated that (paraphrasing) "[t]he long history of American colleges and universities drifting away from the religions that launched and sponsored them won’t repeat at BYU and its sister schools."  I think Elder Gilbert can speak this confidently because the Church has its funding/finances in pretty good order.  The Church has spent the last 60 or so years getting out of debt, stabilizing itself financially, living within its means, and building up a robust financial reserve.  In the last several years we have seen the Church spend a lot on temples, missionary work, family history, and other mandates.  It can do so because it is financially strong.  The Church can also maintain BYU's religious mission and mandates and character because the Church is financially strong.  I am very happy about this.

6. BYU's Long-term Prospects: Teancum, Fletcher-Stack, and others apparently anticipate that the Church's assertion (re-assertion?) of its authority over BYU will result in a stagnation, or even a regression, of BYU's competency as an educational institution.  Their reasoning, it seems, is that BYU remaining (or returning to its prior status as) an overtly religious educational institution will mean that some of the "best and brightest" in the academic world will not want to teach at BYU, or else will leave BYU for greener pastures.  

I'm not really worried about that.  I think BYU has ample momentum in terms of its institutional reputation and standing, which has built up even with BYU's peculiar status as a Latter-day Saint university.  I also think the Church's financial strength will mean that BYU will not succumb to the three bullet points above.  Technology will also help a lot.

But most of all, I think many (most?) people of good will, both in and out of the Church, will respect the Church's and BYU's adherence to religious principles, particularly in the face of what Elder Gilbert describes as "threats {} from secular agendas in the media, regulators and even from peers and other academic contemporaries."  

In other words, I think BYU has, by these recent efforts, secured for itself some pretty bright prospects.  I am very happy about that.

Simply put, I do not think Elder Gilbert was tilting at windmills.  I think he was changing things at BYU so as to preserve its fundamental character and mandates.  His efforts clearly irritated some people.  Peggy Fletcher Stack for one.  Here's another (published today) :

Clark Gilbert Apostle Pick Sparks LDS Church Backlash

Quote

A new appointment to the very top leadership group of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) has sparked some backlash.

Ho-hum.  Pretty much anything the Church does these days creates a "backlash" from someone.

Quote

Elder Clark G. Gilbert was “called” to the newest member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the LDS on Wednesday and “ordained” the next day, the LDS said in a news release.

This lifetime role, in which he will help guide the worldwide church, will give Gilbert significant influence in church governance and direction.

There has been some outcry online, especially in Reddit forums, where people are discussing his previous role as the Church’s education commissioner—critics say he implemented strict policies at LDS-owned private universities, carried out intense oversight and pushed out dissenting opinions.

Based on what I have read (much of it linked to and addressed in the above January 2025 thread), "Dissenting opinions" = "Some BYU faculty/administration seeking to subvert the Church from within (that is, using their positions at BYU to influence students and others) by speaking/acting against it as to certain issues (mostly centering on marriage and the Law of Chastity, and on corollary LGBT issues).  One of my comments from the January 2025 thread:

Quote

There are hundreds and hundreds of colleges and universities where students can obtain an education that is untethered from any religious/moral mooring.  BYU is, or is supposed to be, an institution where Latter-day Saints "seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith" (D&C 88:118).

If there are faculty and administrators at BYU who are encouraging/facilitating/creating Rapone-esque subversive efforts, then I hope that the Board, Elder Gilbert, Pres. Reese, etc. take appropriate corrective measures.
...
{M}y sense is that that are some pretty serious, intentional things going on at BYU.  Some specific things have been cited by Jacob Hansen, Greg Matsen of CWIC Media.  Moreover, Elder Holland's comments ("some others fired their muskets all right, but unfortunately didn’t always aim at those hostile to the Church" and "{a} couple of stray rounds even went north of the point of the mountain") and Elder Gilbert's comments (“The loss of administrative governance will not happen in the Church Educational System of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”) are also noteworthy.  To me, these are pretty clear indicators that there are some serious concerns about people at BYU who are trying - and apparently succeeding to some extent - to subvert both BYU and its sponsoring institution in a "Long March through the Institutions" kind of way.  If that is the case, then the Church, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, the Board of Trustees, CES and Elder Gilbert and Pres. Reese, etc. need to take corrective action.

West Point should not have faculty and administration subverting the intended purposes of that institution and the nation that funds and sponsors it.

BYU should not have faculty and administration subverting the intended purposes of that institution and the church that funds and sponsors it.

Back to the article:

Quote

Newsweek has contacted the LDS via email for comment on behalf of the church and Gilbert.

What "comment" does Newsweek expect to receive from the Church, I wonder.

Quote

Why It Matters

This appointment marks LDS President Dallin H. Oaks’ second apostolic selection in four months—it draws focus because Gilbert has been a high-profile defender of doctrinal orthodoxy.

The move could shape internal culture and policy for years because apostles hold lifetime roles that combine spiritual witness with significant administrative authority.

An apostle with a track record of defending the doctrines of the Church. Comme c'est horrible!  

This is alarming for Newsweek and, perhaps, for Peggy Fletcher Stack and some others.  I am quite happy to see General Authorities called who do things like, well, what Elder Gilbert has done and likely will do.

Quote

What To Know

The Church announced Gilbert’s call and ordination in Salt Lake City, emphasizing his view that faith and learning are intertwined.

Gilbert has served as a General Authority Seventy since April 2021 and as commissioner of the Church Educational System since August 2021, roles that include oversight of LDS Brigham Young University–Idaho campuses, seminaries and institutes.

Several LDS Reddit threads show people voicing concerns about Gilbert’s appointment, often citing a 2025 piece in The Salt Lake Tribune that reported on BYU staff who said Gilbert pushed a doctrine of obedience over personal choice, sowed an environment of distrust and negatively affected some students, especially women and members of the LGBTQ community.

Music professor Jason Bergman said at the time that BYU was “not safe anyone who doesn’t fit the orthodox mold,” who told how he eventually left the university.

"{N}ot safe."  Conveniently vague.  I suspect this is code for "BYU actually expects its faculty/administration to uphold BYU's religious mission and mandates, and to not use their positions at BYU to subvert BYU and the Church."  YMMV.

As I noted previously, there are hundreds and hundreds of colleges and universities where students can obtain an education that is untethered from any religious/moral mooring.  I am glad Bro. Bergman landed on his feet.  I am also glad he left BYU if he was not willing to support its intended purpose and mandates.

Quote

“I had LGBTQ students and saw how they suffered,” Bergman said. “I started to pay attention to how people of color and women were treated. It was and continues to be hard for them.”

"{H}ow they suffered."  Conveniently vague.  I suspect this is code for "BYU actually expects/requires its students to abide by the Honor Code as they agreed to do prior to matriculation, including adherence to the Law of Chastity."

Every single student who attends BYU knows going in what the the Law of Chastity is, and how it pertains to the Honor Code, and they agree beforehand to live according to both.  Again, there are hundreds and hundreds of colleges and universities where students can engage in sexual behaviors incongruent with the teachings of the Church.  It is a bit off to suggest that they "suffer" by doing what they promised they would do (live according to the Honor Code) while receiving a top-notch and heavily-subsidized education at an institution that is patently clear regarding its religious mission and behavioral standards.

Quote

These claims were repeatedly referenced in Reddit threads about the appointment, including one called “Clark G. Gilbert Is Called to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.”

A user called otherwise7337 said, about Gilbert’s time at BYU: “He has tirelessly created an environment of fear among both students and faculty by punishing their livelihoods for holding dissenting opinions and tightening the vice of authority across the board.

"{F}ear among both students and faculty by punishing their livelihoods for holding dissenting opinions and tightening the vice of authority across the board."

It is patently unreasonable for some BYU faculty/admin to expect to use their positions at BYU to influence young Latter-day Saints, to subvert BYU's sponsoring institution, while still drawing a paycheck from that institution.  Their protestations are, to me, about as sincere and legitimate as those of John Dehlin, Jeremy Runnells, Natasha Helfer, etc. who exploited their membership in the Church to speak and act against the Church, and then threw hissy fits when their membership was removed.

Quote

“This appointment by Oaks will serve to perpetuate strict enforcement of obedience to church practice and adherence to church ideology,” they added.

BYU will not let itself be subverted in its religious purposes and mandates.  I am glad of that.

Quote

In a different thread called “Clark Gilbert,” a user called Extension-Spite4176 said, “Gilbert seems to be another shining example of the worst Mormonism has to offer the world.”

"{T}he worst Mormonism has to offer the world."  Bald character assassination.  Online.  Anonymous.  This is, to Newsweek, newsworthy.

I have seldom had an informed perspective on an apostle prior to his calling into the Quorum.  Not so with Elder Gilbert.  I think he is much more of a known quantity and quality.  I don't know that I agree with him on every jot and tittle, but I am persuaded that he is a disciple of Jesus Christ, that he believes in the Restored Gospel, and that he loves both the institution that houses it and the people who are trying to live according to it.  

It took real guts for Elder Gilbert to go against the academic grain, and to even critique and speak against some of the problematic aspects of modern academia.  I believe and hope and trust that Elder Gilbert, when ordained as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, will do what I have been quoting in my sigline for years: "'Conformity' is doing what everybody else is doing, regardless of what is right.  'Morality' is doing what is right, regardless of what everybody else is doing."

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Edited February 20 by smac97

[Duncan]

I have read that one of Elder Gilbert's kids went to BYU an has now left the Church, I wonder if that has fueled his hatred of BYU to try to take it out on professors

 

Elder Gilbert is a problem the church has created and other apostles will have to reign him in just like past apostles like , Moyle, Benson, Packer, McConkie etc.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

It took real guts for Elder Gilbert to go against the academic grain, and to even critique and speak against some of the problematic aspects of modern academia.  I believe and hope and trust that Elder Gilbert, when ordained as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, will do what I have been quoting in my sigline for years: "'Conformity' is doing what everybody else is doing, regardless of what is right.  'Morality' is doing what is right, regardless of what everybody else is doing."

It takes real guts to go against the grain and act morally by *checks notes* rooting out people not conforming to orthodoxy.

Really standing up against conformity there.

[JVW]

On FB the pulse I got was that people didn't like him because he was a white Harvard businessman which is a perfect fit for the church's "corporation" image.

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, JVW said:

On FB the pulse I got was that people didn't like him because he was a white Harvard businessman which is a perfect fit for the church's "corporation" image.

This is the criticism I’m hearing the most right now on social media. 

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I have read that one of Elder Gilbert's kids went to BYU an has now left the Church, I wonder if that has fueled his hatred of BYU to try to take it out on professors

I wonder if you are still torturing puppies for fun and profit.

A loaded question is an informal logical fallacy—specifically a fallacy of presumption or a complex question—that embeds a controversial, unproven assumption (here, Elder Gilbert having a "hatred of BYU" and taking that hatred "out on {BYU} professors") into a query, forcing the respondent to confirm it regardless of their answer. 

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Elder Gilbert is a problem the church has created and other apostles will have to reign him in just like past apostles like, Moyle, Benson, Packer, McConkie etc.

I am sure Elder Gilbert will learn a lot.  However, I think he has his head on straight as far as the welfare of the Church, its subordinate institutions (including BYU) and its members.  I think he truly loves these things.  Sadly, I cannot say the same for those in the Church who seek to subvert, overtly or covertly, the Church's efforts to maintain BYU's religious purposes and mandates.  

I think it is unfortunate that we have members publicly maligning an Apostle of Jesus Christ as you have done here.  I hope you have a change of heart.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 13 by smac97

[Calm]

On 2/12/2026 at 11:23 PM, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I am not willing to compare giving up a promotion to take a less lucrative but still very lucrative job most people won’t ever have a chance of getting as the equivalent of selling all you have and giving it to the poor.

But it is a much more realistic and practical and therefore it’s a useful example, imo, and one that others would more likely consider following given where they likely are in their lives (giving up a significant, but not essential financial gain for a spiritual or charitable gain instead is going to get you further down the progression path than balking at giving it all up to devote all your time to Christ).

The rich young man was an example of what we eventually need to do, Elder Gilbert’s example can help us get to the state where we can seriously consider and accept that our giving it all up to Christ is the best choice for us and others.  We need both examples, imo.  

Edited February 17 by Calm

[Anonymous Mormon]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I have read that one of Elder Gilbert's kids went to BYU an has now left the Church, I wonder if that has fueled his hatred of BYU to try to take it out on professors

 

Elder Gilbert is a problem the church has created and other apostles will have to reign him in just like past apostles like , Moyle, Benson, Packer, McConkie etc.

"Hatred of BYU,"  "a problem the church has created," needing to be "reigned in" by other apostles.

 

Can you give x3 SPECIFIC and/or concrete things you do not like about him or that he has done?

I read articles from the Salt Lake Tribune and Newsweek about how awful he is. All of these seem based upon primarily anonymous quotes from BYU professors and Reddit accounts. The only ones who give their names then paint broad accusations with no specifics. Lots of accusations and character assassinations about how awful he is, but I have yet to see any details.

The only thing that I can find is the list of the 4 categories, which I agree seems like a strange way to rank people. 

But beyond the 4 categories are there there SPECIFIC that someone can name that he has done? Did he fire someone he shouldn't have? Did he execute a policy that was inhumane? What exactly makes you and others declare such strong offenses about him, besides hearsay and bandwagonning because some anonymous people on the internet don't like him?

[Anonymous Mormon]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If you want a list of why he would be considered controversial here are some of the highlights I found digging around various reports:

• Strictly orthodox when operating in academia which has some faculty concerned of what he might do with even more power
• Described as a “culture warrior”, the most extreme one since J. Reuben Clark and Ezra Taft Benson
• Some say he is paranoid about secular groups in academia supposedly out to harm the Church
• Reports that women disproportionately did not get promotions or advancements in CES under his administration when he had the final decision.

I have no idea if these are true, exaggerated, or wrong. Hard to fact check these. The third bullet is probably the strongest from skimming some of his published addresses. Has a very us vs the world mentality. I could see that be a hindrance in some ways but it wouldn’t have to be depending on approach.

I found some of his papers on disruptive innovation which is what he wrote quite a bit about when at Harvard. Nothing there that I think would heavily influence an approach to being an apostle.

This list matches what I have read - we likely read the same articles. However, pretty much all of it is quotes from anonymous sources with vague claims. 

There are more than 5,000 employees at BYU. I can guarantee you that any workplace with 5K people can find at least a handful who will anonymously say bad things about its leaders. In every workplace I've ever been at, all of the worst employees constantly complained about the bosses (these employees also didn't contribute and felt like they were victims).

But can you or anyone else give any specifics to back these anonymous internet claims and character assassination?

(As I said, the only thing I can find is the 4 categories list from his BYU-I days. I feel that his fabulous work in creating and shepherding Pathways to become the program it is more than counterbalances this)

[Anonymous Mormon]

55 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It takes real guts to go against the grain and act morally by *checks notes* rooting out people not conforming to orthodoxy.

Really standing up against conformity there.

How did he "root [people] out people not conforming to orthodoxy"????

What did he do? How many people were fired? Can you name any of them?

I really want those who are so offended to give some concrete examples other than internet hearsay.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

 I am persuaded that he is a disciple of Jesus Christ, that he believes in the Restored Gospel, and that he loves both the institution that houses it and the people who are trying to live according to it.  
 

I definitely agree with you here.

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

It took real guts for Elder Gilbert to go against the academic grain, and to even critique and speak against some of the problematic aspects of modern academia. 

If he was at a nonLDS institution, I would also agree with this.  But I don’t see how this is going against the grain given it’s CES we are talking about.

Was he publishing similar critiques prior to working for the Church? (Serious question as I haven’t researched him and I don’t see a reason why this kind of stuff would have come up for him prior to that.)

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

to reign him

I tried, but I must….because the image needs to be right in my head and it’s not suppose to be a crown, but straps.  😛 

“Rein him in” like the reins on a horse, not “reign” as in what a ruler does.

https://www.dictionary.com/articles/reign-vs-rein

Edited February 13 by Calm

[The Nehor]

48 minutes ago, JVW said:

On FB the pulse I got was that people didn't like him because he was a white Harvard businessman which is a perfect fit for the church's "corporation" image.

That is what I see a lot of. Combined with talk of Jesus grabbing up illiterate peasants to be his disciples/apostles.

Then again historically the apostle that appears to have moved the needle the most and probably ensured Christianity thrived was Paul who was from the privileged elite. Trained as a pharisee, fluent and literate in Greek, Roman citizenship, pretty much the whole elite package. Paul didn’t seem to think much of Peter either.

So are the Clark Gilberts of the world the ideal apostles and Jesus just worked with those that weren’t ideal because that is all he had? I dunno.

[smac97]

On 2/13/2026 at 1:55 PM, The Nehor said:

Quote

It took real guts for Elder Gilbert to go against the academic grain, and to even critique and speak against some of the problematic aspects of modern academia.  I believe and hope and trust that Elder Gilbert, when ordained as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, will do what I have been quoting in my sigline for years: "'Conformity' is doing what everybody else is doing, regardless of what is right.  'Morality' is doing what is right, regardless of what everybody else is doing."

It takes real guts to go against the grain and act morally

Yes, it does.  Just look at this and previous threads.  He has members of the Church publicly disparaging him.  I suspect his efforts as CES Commissioner were undertaken with the understanding that his efforts would yield that result, and he proceeded anyway.

On 2/13/2026 at 1:55 PM, The Nehor said:

by *checks notes* rooting out people not conforming to orthodoxy.

Whom did he "root out"?

And what evidence exists that he did so because of their "not conforming to orthodoxy"?

And what does "not conforming to orthodoxy" mean in the context of BYU faculty/administration?  He spoke of working against the "loss of administrative governance" of BYU.  Again, I do not think he was tilting at windmills.  I think he stopped and rolled back efforts by some at BYU which were calculated to subvert the Church's "administrative governance."  I have said previously:

Quote

I have, in recent years, become concerned about reports of developments at BYU, particularly as pertaining to faculty and administration speaking/acting against the doctrines and practices of The Church.  I have even gone so far as to consider whether there has been some manifestations of a "Long March through the Institutions"-type phenomenon in which some BYU faculty/administration deliberately seek subvert The Church by using their positions to influence and encourage BYU students to stray from the teachings and principles of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, particularly as to matters regarding marriage, sexuality, and CRT.  I think the hullabaloo over Elder Holland's 2021 speech (in which he quoted Pres. Oaks, who in turn was quoting Elder Maxwell, re: "muskets" and the Nauvoo temple) was, for me, a pretty clear indicator that my concerns along these lines were justified (along with the more recent hand-wringing and histrionics at the Tribune).

And this:

Quote

I think something similar can be said about recent controversies about BYU's governance, including hiring/retention policies for faculty and administration.  To paraphrase Kathleen Flake, I think such matters are "about competing views of what should be done with the Church's doctrines and policies pertaining to marriage, sexuality, abortion, race relations, etc. and who gets to say so."

I suspect there have been, and are, members of the faculty and administration at BYU who have "competing views" (that is, "competing" against the Church's position) on certain issues which have both a substantial religious/doctrinal dimension and also get a lot of attention in the sociopolitical and social media spheres.  

I suspect that some of these folks have attempted, overtly or subversively or both, to speak and act against the Church and its doctrines and practices, to do so by (mis)appropriating their positions of influence over BYU students, and do these things while also drawing a paycheck from BYU. 
...

I bear no ill will against any BYU faculty/administration who may have, in recent years, been trying to push BYU and BYU students in directions contrary to the Restored Gospel and the Church that houses it.  We live in a pluralistic society, we have extraordinary rights under our system of laws to do as we please, we have the most freedom and the most rights of any people in the history of the world.  However, these folks have no right to speak and act against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints while drawing a paycheck from the school it sponsors.  This is particularly so for those who have done so in a surreptitious, "Long March through the Institutions" sort of way.  These folks cannot continue in this way and stay at BYU.

I am quite pleased to read about Elder Gilbert and Pres. Reese and what they are doing at BYU.  They are preserving its unique character and purpose.

I think these issues needed to be addressed, and cannot be reduced or characterized to merely "not conforming to orthodoxy."

On 2/13/2026 at 1:55 PM, The Nehor said:

Really standing up against conformity there.

Yes, he really did.  "Conformity" would be kowtowing to trends popular in academia, including having religious schools abandon their religious character and purpose and mandates, and/or allowing elements of BYU faculty/administration subvert the institution or otherwise speak/act against it (and, by extension, the Church), from within.

Yes, he really did.  Some members of the Church are publicly berating him for not conforming to their sociopolitical preferences and ideologies.

"'Conformity' is doing what everybody else is doing, regardless of what is right.  'Morality' is doing what is right, regardless of what everybody else is doing."

There are, I think, people in the Church who think "morality" means altering the doctrines of the Church to suit the preferences and dictates of others, particularly doctrines and policies pertaining to marriage, sexuality, abortion, race relations, etc.  To be sure, the Church can learn, and has learned, some things from "The World."  However, "The World" has some things to learn from the Church, such as pertaining to the Law of Chastity and marriage.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 15 by smac97

[teddyaware]

I’m grateful for all the negative commentary regarding Clark Gilbert on this thread! Silly me, I’m embarrassed to have to admit I was naive and foolish enough to think it was the Lord who had called Elder Gilbert to be an apostle, but it’s now painfully obvious I was mistaken!  When are the leaders of the church going to wake up and realize that the church needs to be led by popular people, people as popular and accepted by the world as were the ‘rock star’ prophets of old?! Thanks to the many keen insights provided by the sagacious Peggy Fletcher Stack, and all the other enlightening comments from the unbelievers, embittered quasi-believers and apostates who’ve graciously taken the time to participate on this thread, I’ve been freed from my ignorance and am now able to bask in the glorious light of sparks!!

11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow. (Isaiah 50)

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

How did he "root [people] out people not conforming to orthodoxy"????

What did he do? How many people were fired? Can you name any of them?

I really want those who are so offended to give some concrete examples other than internet hearsay.

A few were fired. Some quit.

https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-city/2025/01/06/byu-academic-freedom-religious-salt-lake-tribune

[Duncan]

27 minutes ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

"Hatred of BYU,"  "a problem the church has created," needing to be "reigned in" by other apostles.

 

Can you give x3 SPECIFIC and/or concrete things you do not like about him or that he has done?

I read articles from the Salt Lake Tribune and Newsweek about how awful he is. All of these seem based upon primarily anonymous quotes from BYU professors and Reddit accounts. The only ones who give their names then paint broad accusations with no specifics. Lots of accusations and character assassinations about how awful he is, but I have yet to see any details.

The only thing that I can find is the list of the 4 categories, which I agree seems like a strange way to rank people. 

But beyond the 4 categories are there there SPECIFIC that someone can name that he has done? Did he fire someone he shouldn't have? Did he execute a policy that was inhumane? What exactly makes you and others declare such strong offenses about him, besides hearsay and bandwagonning because some anonymous people on the internet don't like him?

I know one brother who this exactley happened to, PH.D. in a certain area, from a prestigious university, that has members that do what he does maybe less than 25 i'd imagine

"Under him, the requirements for being hired as faculty began to include a sort of "loyalty oath," which is stricter than even what is required to hold a temple recommend. It basically uses one's testimony as a job requirement, but in an ambiguous way that leaves BYU higher-ups in charge of determining if your testimony and loyalty to the church is high enough. There are other aspects to it, but for some it's basically become "I don't want to make this comment in Sunday School because it might be seen as controversial and so-and-so could mention it to the boss and I could lose my job." I posted this below, but my chances of being hired at BYU are pretty small now since my spouse has left the church and that has begun to factor in as well regarding the potential faculty's loyalty to the church."

I meet with him via zoom usually once a week. He doesn't live in the US anymore and couldn't get hired at BYU, and their loss

here's another comment I found from someone

"

"He’s definitely on the very conservative end of the spectrum, which is one thing. But what majorly bugs me is that he’s really opposed to moral relativism and DEI. He’s actually described these as being ‘worldly influences’ in quite a number of CES events.

As someone who is an immigrant and has suffered direct racism from other members, it doesn’t sit well with me for obvious reasons. And his view in the past was that racism is something that is worldly. But it doesn’t really work in practice because the self-improvement requires self-realization, of which is then some element of DEI. He cited Mandela and reconciliation, but doing so requires self-understanding.

I also once had a discussion with other members where I pointed out that in Judaism, doing good is placed higher than being pious. The response from quite a few members was that we do good because Jesus said so. But by that response, does it mean that non-Christians are incapable of doing good things because they don’t believe in Jesus?

And different cultures have different values. Does it mean that a matriarchal society is inherently lesser? I don’t think so. But based on past talks and speeches, I would think he would say so."

and i've seen this type of comment a few times

"

"Like all the “adjunct professors” At BYU — their secret code for “a woman who can teach this as well as a highly paid faculty member, but who we won’t hire fulltime, AND will pay her in ‘blessings’ instead of a living wage.”

BYU’s bread and butter is being a shady employer, forcing people who could/should be compensated properly to work for peanuts and pats on the head."

The Church is its own worst enemy, forget evangelicals, atheists etc. it's the people in the church

Edited February 13 by Duncan