Undocumented Members

[JVW]

On 1/31/2026 at 1:33 AM, Tacenda said:

They aren't taking care of the deported and many have died in concentration camps, some have called them.

Do you have any good articles I can read about how many have died in detention centers and/or the treatment of detainees and stuff? Please and thank you!

[Calm]

https://apnews.com/article/ice-detainee-deaths-suicide-camp-east-montana-victor-manuel-diaz-54b6ad1a5715567ccc351739bbb25e57

https://people.com/deaths-ice-custody-last-year-as-fatal-shootings-spur-outrage-11890261

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/28/deaths-ice-2026-?

Perhaps People is not the highest quality, but it gives names you can research.

I use Reddit usually as a first step, but this looks useful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Watch/comments/1qb6914/information_about_every_death_in_ice_detention/

Quote:  “I'm sharing this because DHS is failing to update the Detainee Death Reporting page. They have produce ZERO reports for Fiscal Year 2026 (Oct 1, 2025 - Sept 30, 2026) despite being legally required to publish reports within 90 days. DHS has missed multiple deadlines.

Additionally, Kristie Noem sent a memo requiring congressional visits give at least seven days notice (I don't think this is legal). For me, the effort is clear, DHS is working to eliminate oversight of immigration detention centers - setting a dangerous trajectory for the nation.”

If this is true, it is very concerning.  Why would they need a week’s notice if there wasn’t a need for a coverup?

It appears to be an ongoing problem (this report covers 2017-2021) that likely is significantly worse with the ramping up of the efforts this last year.

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/95-percent-of-deaths-in-ice-detention-could-likely-have-been-prevented-with-adequate-medical-care-report

Edited February 2 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

Bank robbers generally get due process. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

11 hours ago, manol said:

Being in the US illegally falls into the category of "mala prohibita", which refers to "acts that are prohibited by law and not because they are evil".

Robbery falls into the category of "mala in se", which refers to "acts that are inherently evil regardless of whether they are prohibited by law."

And when the enforcement of law is evil for acts that are merely male prohibita. We don’t even need to look at today’s enforcement which is designed to be as cruel as possible. Think back to the late 1800s and anti-polygamy laws. Families were ripped apart, sent into hiding, lived in fear. Complying with such a law by turning people in was much more evil than hiding such people. 

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, JVW said:

Do you have any good articles I can read about how many have died in detention centers and/or the treatment of detainees and stuff? Please and thank you!

I just saw this question, thanks for asking it! It looks like Calm gave examples, thanks @Calm!! I did go searching for some more, and I saw several articles. I decided to share this wiki for some eye opening things. Of course maybe people don't trust wiki much these days, I don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_ICE_detention

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, JVW said:

Do you have any good articles I can read about how many have died in detention centers and/or the treatment of detainees and stuff? Please and thank you!

Here is a bit on the treatment of detainees. A Google search will pull up hundreds of articles about mistreatment from observers and detainees.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2025/07/21/you-feel-like-your-life-is-over/abusive-practices-at-three-florida-immigration

[Kevin Christensen]

A section of my forth coming presentation at the Interpreter Small Plates conference in May in may deals with "the blindness caused by the efforts of various iterations of the Great and Abominable church" includes  “hardening of hearts” (1 Nephi 13:27).  What does that mean?  Recall the Deuteronomy passage I quoted:

If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother.  (Deuteronomy 15:7)

A survey of the complaints about the behavior of the Jerusalem elites characteristically demonstrates hardened hearts and the language and imagery regularly points to collectively abominable behavior by groups, not just scattered, exceptional individuals. 

Jer. 5:28

They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.

Jer. 7:4-11

4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.

5 For if ye thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;

10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 1

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Ezekiel 22 begins by listing specific characteristics that defined Jerusalem’s “abominations.” 

6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.

7 In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord God.

13 Behold, therefore I have smitten mine hand at thy dishonest gain which thou hast made, and at thy blood which hath been in the midst of thee.

The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

Jesus states in the New Testament that the one sure way to identify his followers, regardless of national or religious or racial affiliation is that “they love one another” (John 13:35). In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul gives a famous description of charity as the pure love of Christ.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

What is the opposite?

The opposite of the love of Christ does not suffer long, and is unkind, envieth whoever has what it wants, vaunteth itself constantly, and is notably puffed up,

Behaves unseemly, always seeking its own gain, is easily provoked, and thinks evil of anyone who opposes their ambitions and desires, or is just different

Rejoices in getting away with whatever it wants to do, and bitterly opposes any attempts to call it to account,

Will not put up with anything negative, believes only what it wants to hear, hopes only for personal gain and power and fame and pleasure, so that it will never have to endure anything difficult or unpleasant.

Jesus directly addressed the tendency to create legality that circumvents charity when he was asked, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread?”  (Matthew 15:2)

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

A similar pattern of legality replacing charity appears in the question about easy divorce initiated by men in Matthew 19, when Jesus specifically notes “hardness of heart.”

...

If we don’t want to settle for having hardened hearts, and the accompanying blindness and loss of understanding such hearts demonstrate, the thing to do is to offer up the sacrifice of a broken heart, and a contrite spirit, to be willing to offer up as potential sacrifices even our favorite sins and what may seem our most reasonable preconceptions and secure traditions.  We ought to study things out, make inquiries, experiment upon the word, living them from the inside to see how that experience changes our understanding, praying sincerely, and giving things time and effort.  In following that process, making such sacrifices, we can then find “pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul, without hypocrisy and without guile” (D&C 121:42).  And the hope and promise for such a society committed to understanding and charity collectively behaves as Alma reports, in notable contrast to the complaints Jeremiah and Isaiah and others offered against the Jerusalem of their day:
"they did not send away any who were naked, or that were hungry, or that were athirst, or that were sick, or that had not been nourished; and they did not set their hearts upon riches; therefore they were liberal to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, whether out of the church or in the church, having no respect to persons as to those who stood in need." (Alma 1:30)

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Tooele, UT

[Nofear]

Not a bad read at all. About some LA wards and branches and how they've responded. "Through it all, church headquarters in Salt Lake City has remained largely hands off, according to members in the area.  'It’s all been at the ward level, where every bishop has had to choose on his own how to respond,' said Latter-day Saint Ricardo Osorio Reyes."

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2026/02/03/how-latter-day-saints-la-responded/

[JVW]

16 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

A section of my forth coming presentation at the Interpreter Small Plates conference in May in may deals with "the blindness caused by the efforts of various iterations of the Great and Abominable church" includes  “hardening of hearts” (1 Nephi 13:27).  What does that mean?  Recall the Deuteronomy passage I quoted:

If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother.  (Deuteronomy 15:7)

A survey of the complaints about the behavior of the Jerusalem elites characteristically demonstrates hardened hearts and the language and imagery regularly points to collectively abominable behavior by groups, not just scattered, exceptional individuals. 

Jer. 5:28

They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.

Jer. 7:4-11

4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.

5 For if ye thoroughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;

10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 1

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Ezekiel 22 begins by listing specific characteristics that defined Jerusalem’s “abominations.” 

6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.

7 In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord God.

13 Behold, therefore I have smitten mine hand at thy dishonest gain which thou hast made, and at thy blood which hath been in the midst of thee.

The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

Jesus states in the New Testament that the one sure way to identify his followers, regardless of national or religious or racial affiliation is that “they love one another” (John 13:35). In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul gives a famous description of charity as the pure love of Christ.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

What is the opposite?

The opposite of the love of Christ does not suffer long, and is unkind, envieth whoever has what it wants, vaunteth itself constantly, and is notably puffed up,

Behaves unseemly, always seeking its own gain, is easily provoked, and thinks evil of anyone who opposes their ambitions and desires, or is just different

Rejoices in getting away with whatever it wants to do, and bitterly opposes any attempts to call it to account,

Will not put up with anything negative, believes only what it wants to hear, hopes only for personal gain and power and fame and pleasure, so that it will never have to endure anything difficult or unpleasant.

Jesus directly addressed the tendency to create legality that circumvents charity when he was asked, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread?”  (Matthew 15:2)

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

A similar pattern of legality replacing charity appears in the question about easy divorce initiated by men in Matthew 19, when Jesus specifically notes “hardness of heart.”

...

If we don’t want to settle for having hardened hearts, and the accompanying blindness and loss of understanding such hearts demonstrate, the thing to do is to offer up the sacrifice of a broken heart, and a contrite spirit, to be willing to offer up as potential sacrifices even our favorite sins and what may seem our most reasonable preconceptions and secure traditions.  We ought to study things out, make inquiries, experiment upon the word, living them from the inside to see how that experience changes our understanding, praying sincerely, and giving things time and effort.  In following that process, making such sacrifices, we can then find “pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul, without hypocrisy and without guile” (D&C 121:42).  And the hope and promise for such a society committed to understanding and charity collectively behaves as Alma reports, in notable contrast to the complaints Jeremiah and Isaiah and others offered against the Jerusalem of their day:
"they did not send away any who were naked, or that were hungry, or that were athirst, or that were sick, or that had not been nourished; and they did not set their hearts upon riches; therefore they were liberal to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, whether out of the church or in the church, having no respect to persons as to those who stood in need." (Alma 1:30)

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Tooele, UT

I'm not sure what this directly has to do with illegal immigration but it was a lovely read. The thing that worried me while reading this is that nearly everyone I interact with, everyone I see in the govt both local, state, and federal do not behave with charity. I am, in many ways, no exception to this.

The patterns I see here are: idol worship, ignoring the poor, judging others, corruption, and breaking the ten commandments. I thought that this passage from your writing was particularly prescient, "The opposite of the love of Christ does not suffer long, is unkind, envieth whoever has what it wants, vaunteth itself constantly, and is notably puffed up. Behaves unseemly, always seeking its own gain, is easily provoked, and thinks evil of anyone who opposes their ambitions and desires, or is just different. Rejoices in getting away with whatever it wants to do, and bitterly opposes any attempts to call it to account. Will not put up with anything negative, believes only what it wants to hear, hopes only for personal gain and power and fame and pleasure, so that it will never have to endure anything difficult or unpleasant."

That quote sounds like every social media site I've ever interacted with, and the comments section of every news article I've ever read regardless of political bias. It also sounds like every protest I've witnessed in recent years and every political or social movement I've seen gain traction. In general, people are behaving like a two year old. Nobody is wrong, everybody is right, religion is used not as a vehicle to worship God but rather to reinforce personal political views. Idolatry is running rampant, even our little ones aren't immune to it with shows like Cocomelon where the creators are literally data scientists trying to determine the most effective way to get toddlers hooked. It's no wonder that our world is so messed up, these are the kind of people running for office, and the kind of people that are voted in by those who desire them.

Fortunately, as an individual, I can choose to shift what I focus on towards Christ and He can change my heart. Hopefully one day I can be full of charity and treat my neighbors and the stranger within my gates with kindness. Not only that, but it will be a nice benefit to have God's direction on how to treat someone in the most loving way possible. For example, lets say I have two children who are both addicts and commit armed robbery to afford their habit. For one, reporting them to prison may be the most loving thing to do and just the thing they need to become broken and fertile soil to plant the seed of faith. For another it may be the worst thing to do as they'd end up radicalized in prison and instead the most loving thing would be to simply send them to a strict rehab center with the expectation that after they sober up they confess their crimes. It's hard to know what the most loving thing to do for someone is in any given situation. The way the world defines love is a lot different than the way that I see God express love in the holy text, and in my own life, and that confusion makes this challenge even more difficult.

[Danzo]

On 2/1/2026 at 2:14 PM, Durangout said:

If you knew of members of your ward that had robbed a local store, would you report them?  Of course you would.  This is NO different.

The Church refuses to baptize illegal aliens in the US.  Why?  BC they don’t approve of lawbreakers or support lawbreaking.  Why do you all?  

You are wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

The church baptizes illegal aliens, 

The church calls them on missions

the church gives them temple recommends

The church issues callings, including branch presidents, elders quorum presidents, etc.

 

[Danzo]

I have many clients that i know for 100% certainty are here illegally.  (some are members of the church)

I do not report any of them. 

It would actually be illegal for me to report them.

Laws are funny that way,  following one law often means breaking another one. 

 

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Danzo said:

You are wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

The church baptizes illegal aliens, 

The church calls them on missions

the church gives them temple recommends

The church issues callings, including branch presidents, elders quorum presidents, etc.

 

Good to see you, Danzo.  Been missing you.

[MustardSeed]

It’s important to keep in mind in these conversations that being in this country without legal documentation is not actually a crime in most cases. But the way ICE appears to be treating people is as though they are the worst of criminals.

Edited February 5 by MustardSeed

[Stargazer]

On 1/29/2026 at 11:57 AM, jkwilliams said:

My wife and I have been attending church in a Spanish-speaking branch for the past few months. I’ve never considered asking any other branch members about their immigration status. I do know people (LDS and not) who are absolute hardliners about mass deportations, etc.

If you found out someone you attend church with is not in the country legally, would you report them to authorities? Why or why not?

I’m not trying to make this political, but if it’s not appropriate to this forum, I understand. 

I am in favor of the deportation of those who are in the country illegally. But I am not employed by the INS, and unless someone were carrying out illegal activities, I am not concerned with their immigration status. I've known immigrants, both illegal and legal. In my old ward (I've been gone from there for 10 years now) there was one family who I believed might be in the country illegally. I never asked them about their immigration status, and they were a fine family. I wanted them to stay in the US. Another man whom I knew in a neighboring town, who lived on property next to some acreage of mine, was definitely an illegal immigrant from Mexico. Nice guy, hard-working, and honest. I eventually sold my acreage to him. His situation was noteworthy in that his wife was Guatemalan who was living in Mexico as an illegal immigrant to Mexico! It was around the time that I moved to the UK that he told me that he was going to visit Mexico in order to do the paperwork with the government so his wife could have legal status in Mexico, so she could join him in the US, so if they got deported from the US, at least they would be deported together to the same country! I don't know how his story has turned out, but I hope he manages to stay under the radar in the US. 

Bult if you're in the country illegally, you should go home. 

In the UK they have gone completely potty about illegals. They catch them as they cross the Channel, and the government then puts them up in fancy hotels. Some of these people leave their government-paid lodgings and go out to commit crimes, up to and including rape and murder. But still they stay here. And the Brits who complain about it find themselves being put in jail for "hate speech." 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

the government then puts them up in fancy hotels

You made me curious, but not that curious so I used chat.  Apparently using hotels is a response to overcrowding in asylum centers, which if so seems a better, more humane solution than tents somewhere.  Unfortunately sounds like there is over crowding in the hotels as well.

Quote

Government data show thousands of asylum seekers housed in hotels

UK Home Office figures show that 32,000+ asylum seekers were being housed in hotels in early 2025 as part of the asylum support system — not as punishment or luxury, but as temporary accommodation while claims are processed.

2. Government briefing explains the policy

A Commons Library briefing notes that the Home Office is duty‑bound to provide accommodation for destitute asylum seekers, and hotels are used as contingency accommodation when contracted asylum housing runs short.

3. Official announcements document hotel closures and transitions

Government press releases confirm that specific hotels have been closed and removed from the asylum accommodation list, and the Home Office has moved asylum seekers into alternative accommodation (large sites, private rented sector, vessels) to reduce reliance on hotels.

 

 

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

You made me curious, but not that curious so I used chat.  Apparently using hotels is a response to overcrowding in asylum centers, which if so seems a better, more humane solution than tents somewhere.  Unfortunately sounds like there is over crowding in the hotels as well.

 

Yes, there is overcrowding. It's because they keep coming because the British government encourages it by not discouraging it. And the current government refuses to do anything constructive about it. The previous government came up with the brilliant idea of sending the illegals to a country willing to accept them, in this case Rwanda. Of course that was widely derided by the left. The current government seems to have no idea what to do. And I can ask chat about this, too:

"The Labour government is focusing on tackling illegal immigration by establishing a new Border Security Command to "smash the gangs" behind small boat crossings, utilizing counter-terror style tactics. Key actions include scrapping the Rwanda plan, increasing deportations of failed asylum seekers, and aiming to end the use of hotels for asylum accommodation by 2029."

In other words, they claim they'll get around to stop housing illegals in hotels in about three years. But whatever they are saying they will do is most likely not going to be done. 

[JVW]

15 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

It’s important to keep in mind in these conversations that being in this country without legal documentation is not actually a crime in most cases. But the way ICE appears to be treating people is as though they are the worst of criminals.

To be fair, there are a non-trivial amount of arrests made on people who have "criminal conviction" or "pending criminal conviction". https://www.ice.gov/statistics . And the ratio of those two statuses for detentions is overwhelmingly trending towards criminals. So I'm inferring that, while the arrest rate of non-criminal illegals to criminal illegals may be 50/50, the detention rate of those arrested is like 5/95 non-criminal/criminal ratio. This data isn't up-to-date so I'm interested to see what their next quarterly update looks like as far as this is concerned.

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, Stargazer said:

In the UK they have gone completely potty about illegals. They catch them as they cross the Channel, and the government then puts them up in fancy hotels. Some of these people leave their government-paid lodgings and go out to commit crimes, up to and including rape and murder. But still they stay here. And the Brits who complain about it find themselves being put in jail for "hate speech." 

That is propaganda. They are kept in cheap hotels. They also aren’t random immigrants. They are asylum seekers. And no they aren’t imprisoning people for complaining about it. They are imprisoning people who are issuing direct threats against asylum seekers.

Seek out better sources of information. You are being lied to.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, JVW said:

To be fair, there are a non-trivial amount of arrests made on people who have "criminal conviction" or "pending criminal conviction". https://www.ice.gov/statistics . And the ratio of those two statuses for detentions is overwhelmingly trending towards criminals. So I'm inferring that, while the arrest rate of non-criminal illegals to criminal illegals may be 50/50, the detention rate of those arrested is like 5/95 non-criminal/criminal ratio. This data isn't up-to-date so I'm interested to see what their next quarterly update looks like as far as this is concerned.

The numbers I have read say that currently approximately 75% of current detainees have no criminal conviction or charges pending. It is also worth noting that passing a bad check a decade ago counts as a criminal conviction. Estimates I see say about 5% of detainees have violent convictions or violent charges and again, this could be from getting in a fight a decade ago with no pattern of violent behavior.

I also don’t trust the numbers coming out of ICE. They have been willing to lie. They are issuing secret memos telling their agents to ignore federal laws and the constitution. They are way beyond getting the benefit of any doubt. When they are willing to kill the way they currently are in public I really worry about what is going on where we cannot see. This is again a case where ‘the cruelty is the point’.

[JVW]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The numbers I have read say that currently approximately 75% of current detainees have no criminal conviction or charges pending. It is also worth noting that passing a bad check a decade ago counts as a criminal conviction. Estimates I see say about 5% of detainees have violent convictions or violent charges and again, this could be from getting in a fight a decade ago with no pattern of violent behavior.

I also don’t trust the numbers coming out of ICE. They have been willing to lie. They are issuing secret memos telling their agents to ignore federal laws and the constitution. They are way beyond getting the benefit of any doubt. When they are willing to kill the way they currently are in public I really worry about what is going on where we cannot see. This is again a case where ‘the cruelty is the point’.

I literally linked the most official source of information I can find. I can't help you beyond that.

[The Nehor]

The DHS propaganda and recruiting tools are disgusting. They pull out religious imagery and corrupt the words from the Bible to twist them to make this a kind of holy mission. Also using a quote from a movie about fighting fascists to encourage people to back people doing fascist things.

Here is Dan McClellan taking down the misuse of the Bible to back this garbage:

 

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, JVW said:

I literally linked the most official source of information I can find. I can't help you beyond that.

I trust numbers of the aid organizations over the official ones. DHS cannot be trusted on this. At all.

[MustardSeed]

By virtue of the fact that the original question here in this thread did not identify the ward members in question as being criminals but rather just being undocumented suggests a mindset that people have that is concerning to me. 
 

I also do not trust a word coming out of the ICE organization itself nor do I trust our administration. Particularly not on this issue.

Edited February 5 by MustardSeed

[Stargazer]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That is propaganda.

I live there. The propaganda is being told by the Labour government and the BBC. I'm sure you've heard how the BBC likes to manipulate video to tell falsehoods? But I'm sure you still believe their fairy tales.

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They are kept in cheap hotels.

Cheap or expensive? Doesn't matter. I live in England, and I know that cheap hotels are NOT cheap. Though they have been talking about putting these people up on military bases, too. Since they are running out of room. More come because the "asylum seekers" know the UK will treat them like honored guests. You know, when I first applied to immigrate to the UK, they required that I prove I could support myself, and my visa was very specific that I was not permitted to receive public funds or benefits. But these people come over illegally and the government houses and feeds them. They know this. So they come.

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They also aren’t random immigrants. They are asylum seekers.

They aren't seeking asylum, even if they say they are. Asylum seekers stop in the first safe country, they don't keep going into country after country, finally undertaking the dangerous crossing of the English Channel. Are you saying that France is too dangerous for them? That they need asylum from France? Don't be ridiculous. 

There were 89,509 asylum applications (relating to 110,051 people) in the UK in the year to September 2025, a 13% increase from the previous 12 months. The top five countries of origin of people seeking asylum were Pakistan, Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. <-- are you going to tell me that Bangladeshis have to travel all the way to England to get asylum? That's what? 4,000 miles? They can't stop anywhere in between? Are you delusional?

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

And no they aren’t imprisoning people for complaining about it. They are imprisoning people who are issuing direct threats against asylum seekers.

Ah yes, Lucy Connolly. She tweeted something in haste because of the Southport mass stabbing in which four little girls were murdered and several others badly wounded. A tweet she deleted three hours later and apologized for. So they sentenced her to 42 months in prison. Meanwhile, in 2023 over 12,000 people were arrested for alleged violations of the UK law that makes it illegal to send “grossly offensive” or false/misleading stuff over public comms (tweets, WhatsApp, etc). This covers offensive/obscene/menacing posts + knowingly false messages. Of the 12k arrests in 2023 only 1,119 led to convictions. This suggests that the police are being used to scare citizens from expressing their opinions. Or did 12k people issue direct threats against asylum seekers?

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Seek out better sources of information. You are being lied to.

You mean the sources you believe without question? No thanks. I see the kinds of things you credit as truthful. And the stands you like to take.

 

 

[Stargazer]

On 2/4/2026 at 4:31 PM, MustardSeed said:

It’s important to keep in mind in these conversations that being in this country without legal documentation is not actually a crime in most cases. But the way ICE appears to be treating people is as though they are the worst of criminals.

In most cases it is not actually a crime? When does it become a crime?

No, you seem to have listened to something Don Lemon said in one of his attempts at "journalism." 

Crossing the U.S. border without authorization is a federal crime, specifically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders under 8 U.S.C. § 1325, punishable by fines and up to six months in jail. Subsequent unlawful entries or re-entry after deportation can be charged as a felony (8 U.S.C. § 1326), with penalties of up to 2 years in prison or more depending on prior criminal history. 

Sounds like a crime to me. And ICE's first priority is illegals who have committed additional crimes, but if they happen to find the other sorts in the process, then it is still not "catch and release."