Stargazer Posted February 6 Posted February 6 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: I trust numbers of the aid organizations over the official ones. DHS cannot be trusted on this. At all. Of course those aid organizations are completely unbiased. 2
bluebell Posted February 6 Posted February 6 10 minutes ago, Stargazer said: In most cases it is not actually a crime? When does it become a crime? No, you seem to have listened to something Don Lemon said in one of his attempts at "journalism." Crossing the U.S. border without authorization is a federal crime, specifically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders under 8 U.S.C. § 1325, punishable by fines and up to six months in jail. Subsequent unlawful entries or re-entry after deportation can be charged as a felony (8 U.S.C. § 1326), with penalties of up to 2 years in prison or more depending on prior criminal history. Sounds like a crime to me. And ICE's first priority is illegals who have committed additional crimes, but if they happen to find the other sorts in the process, then it is still not "catch and release." It's a criminal act (misdemeanor) to cross the border illegally but "unlawful presence" is only a civil violation. It's similar in severity to a parking ticket. 1
Stargazer Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) 23 minutes ago, bluebell said: It's a criminal act (misdemeanor) to cross the border illegally but "unlawful presence" is only a civil violation. It's similar in severity to a parking ticket. Why are you trying so hard to minimize things? "Unlawful presence" is overstaying a visa. You had permission to cross the border, but your permission has expired. You need to go home. And if you overstay your visa, parking ticket or not, you need to be deported. According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33 and 48% of the total unauthorized migrant population. They need to go home, or be sent back home. There are over 14 million illegals in the US (or was, before Trump started paying for them to self-deport), and you think the ones who "merely" overstayed their visa should be ignored? Or be given a free pass? Edited February 6 by Stargazer 1
Rain Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: I live there. The propaganda is being told by the Labour government and the BBC. I'm sure you've heard how the BBC likes to manipulate video to tell falsehoods? But I'm sure you still believe their fairy tales. Cheap or expensive? Doesn't matter. I live in England, and I know that cheap hotels are NOT cheap. Though they have been talking about putting these people up on military bases, too. Since they are running out of room. More come because the "asylum seekers" know the UK will treat them like honored guests. You know, when I first applied to immigrate to the UK, they required that I prove I could support myself, and my visa was very specific that I was not permitted to receive public funds or benefits. But these people come over illegally and the government houses and feeds them. They know this. So they come. They aren't seeking asylum, even if they say they are. Asylum seekers stop in the first safe country, they don't keep going into country after country, finally undertaking the dangerous crossing of the English Channel. You don't have to seek asylum in the first country you come to. An asylum seeker is someone who feels they fit the definition of a refugee (forced to leave their country or it is a danger to stay), but asks for asylum at the border or within a country. Often that is in the country right next to them, but for various reasons staying in the second country may not be much of an option for them. There is nothing that says asylum seekers only stop in the first safe country. 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: Are you saying that France is too dangerous for them? That they need asylum from France? Don't be ridiculous. There were 89,509 asylum applications (relating to 110,051 people) in the UK in the year to September 2025, a 13% increase from the previous 12 months. While I don't know 2025 numbers, the number of displaced people has been rising for a number of years so it doesn't surprise me that more are seeking asylum there. Don't get me wrong. It is no easy thing for countries to take in so many people. There are some valid concerns. I just think we should be working more worldwide and within our countries of what we can do to help solve both the problems of people getting displaced and of what happens when we take them in. People saying "stay out of my country" doesn't work. 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: The top five countries of origin of people seeking asylum were Pakistan, Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. <-- are you going to tell me that Bangladeshis have to travel all the way to England to get asylum? That's what? 4,000 miles? They can't stop anywhere in between? Are you delusional? Have you asked them why they are coming there? 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: Ah yes, Lucy Connolly. She tweeted something in haste because of the Southport mass stabbing in which four little girls were murdered and several others badly wounded. A tweet she deleted three hours later and apologized for. So they sentenced her to 42 months in prison. Meanwhile, in 2023 over 12,000 people were arrested for alleged violations of the UK law that makes it illegal to send “grossly offensive” or false/misleading stuff over public comms (tweets, WhatsApp, etc). This covers offensive/obscene/menacing posts + knowingly false messages. Of the 12k arrests in 2023 only 1,119 led to convictions. This suggests that the police are being used to scare citizens from expressing their opinions. Or did 12k people issue direct threats against asylum seekers? You mean the sources you believe without question? No thanks. I see the kinds of things you credit as truthful. And the stands you like to take. Edited February 6 by Rain 1
bluebell Posted February 6 Posted February 6 45 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Why are you trying so hard to minimize things? "Unlawful presence" is overstaying a visa. You had permission to cross the border, but your permission has expired. You need to go home. And if you overstay your visa, parking ticket or not, you need to be deported. According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33 and 48% of the total unauthorized migrant population. They need to go home, or be sent back home. There are over 14 million illegals in the US (or was, before Trump started paying for them to self-deport), and you think the ones who "merely" overstayed their visa should be ignored? Or be given a free pass? I'm just stating the legal facts though. Can I ask why you are finding them aggravating? 2
The Nehor Posted February 6 Posted February 6 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: I live there. The propaganda is being told by the Labour government and the BBC. I'm sure you've heard how the BBC likes to manipulate video to tell falsehoods? But I'm sure you still believe their fairy tales. Trust them more than far right bigots? Yes. 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: Cheap or expensive? Doesn't matter. So your characterization was inaccurate? And now it suddenly doesn’t matter. When the facts stops mattering why bother at all? 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: I live in England, and I know that cheap hotels are NOT cheap. Though they have been talking about putting these people up on military bases, too. Since they are running out of room. More come because the "asylum seekers" know the UK will treat them like honored guests. You know, when I first applied to immigrate to the UK, they required that I prove I could support myself, and my visa was very specific that I was not permitted to receive public funds or benefits. But these people come over illegally and the government houses and feeds them. They know this. So they come. Honored guests? They are being yelled at by protestors and a large segment of the population characterizes them as invaders. Yet somehow this is too nice? Weird. 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: They aren't seeking asylum, even if they say they are. Asylum seekers stop in the first safe country, they don't keep going into country after country, finally undertaking the dangerous crossing of the English Channel. Are you saying that France is too dangerous for them? That they need asylum from France? Don't be ridiculous. Okay, think through why they would want to come to the UK specifically instead of France. Maybe they have family or social ties with people in the UK? Maybe they (like many people) speak English as a second language and don’t know French? Maybe the UK is seen as relatively welcoming? If I were seeking asylum I would be more likely to go to the UK than France for several of those reasons. Acting like this is some form of predation is xenophobic. 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: There were 89,509 asylum applications (relating to 110,051 people) in the UK in the year to September 2025, a 13% increase from the previous 12 months. The top five countries of origin of people seeking asylum were Pakistan, Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. <-- are you going to tell me that Bangladeshis have to travel all the way to England to get asylum? That's what? 4,000 miles? They can't stop anywhere in between? Are you delusional? Why are you imagining that relative proximity is the primary decision point? Would that be your only consideration? Treat them like they are people and think through why they would make the choices they do without this default assumption of malice and you might understand them. When you see them as an “other” coming to destroy everything you come up with these ‘hive mind’ reasons they are making the choices they are and make violence against them acceptable. 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: Ah yes, Lucy Connolly. She tweeted something in haste because of the Southport mass stabbing in which four little girls were murdered and several others badly wounded. A tweet she deleted three hours later and apologized for. So they sentenced her to 42 months in prison. Meanwhile, in 2023 over 12,000 people were arrested for alleged violations of the UK law that makes it illegal to send “grossly offensive” or false/misleading stuff over public comms (tweets, WhatsApp, etc). This covers offensive/obscene/menacing posts + knowingly false messages. Of the 12k arrests in 2023 only 1,119 led to convictions. This suggests that the police are being used to scare citizens from expressing their opinions. Or did 12k people issue direct threats against asylum seekers? Lucy Connoly who said “set fire to all the f*&#ing hotels full of the bastards” is defended as some kind of brave speaker of truth? This wasn’t her only racially charged statement. She is a racist. The 12k arrested that were a mix of general racism (not necessarily tied to asylum seekers) and a bunch of people who were stalking or harassing and threatening individuals online. Do basic research on what these arrests involve before tying it all into your latest favored propaganda. 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: You mean the sources you believe without question? No thanks. I see the kinds of things you credit as truthful. And the stands you like to take. You have no idea what sources I use. 1
The Nehor Posted February 6 Posted February 6 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: Of course those aid organizations are completely unbiased. They are at least on some level accountable to their donors. DHS is actively hiding a lot of the data behind the recent round ups. I am not suggesting that they don’t have a bias. I am suggesting that I will trust people and organizations that are not habitual liars and obfuscaters over those who are. That shouldn’t be hard to grasp. This isn’t a “both sides” thing. I hate “both sides” rhetoric. It is almost always trotted out when the person can’t defend their side at all and wants to pretend that everything else is equally bad. That is what you say about people you support? Isn’t that horrific on some level?
The Nehor Posted February 6 Posted February 6 4 hours ago, Stargazer said: Why are you trying so hard to minimize things? "Unlawful presence" is overstaying a visa. You had permission to cross the border, but your permission has expired. You need to go home. And if you overstay your visa, parking ticket or not, you need to be deported. According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33 and 48% of the total unauthorized migrant population. They need to go home, or be sent back home. There are over 14 million illegals in the US (or was, before Trump started paying for them to self-deport), and you think the ones who "merely" overstayed their visa should be ignored? Or be given a free pass? And they need to go home via illegal and unconstitutional methods if that is what it takes? The process should be cruel and inhumane? Why are you defending this? 2
Danzo Posted February 6 Posted February 6 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: Why are you trying so hard to minimize things? "Unlawful presence" is overstaying a visa. You had permission to cross the border, but your permission has expired. You need to go home. And if you overstay your visa, parking ticket or not, you need to be deported. According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33 and 48% of the total unauthorized migrant population. They need to go home, or be sent back home. There are over 14 million illegals in the US (or was, before Trump started paying for them to self-deport), and you think the ones who "merely" overstayed their visa should be ignored? Or be given a free pass? Why?, Why does everyone need to be sent home? Are you scared of them? Are they hurting you? 2
The Nehor Posted February 6 Posted February 6 4 hours ago, Danzo said: Why?, Why does everyone need to be sent home? Are you scared of them? Are they hurting you? And if someone lacks empathy you can ask why they want to crash portions of the economy reliant on migrant labor. 4
bsjkki Posted February 6 Posted February 6 These discussions devolve into some form of ‘if you support borders and actually enforcing current immigration laws you’re just a far right bigot and not Christ like.’ There is a good reason the rape gangs in England were allowed to flourish. Being called a name is much worse than letting little girls be groomed and trafficked. Completely ignored are the legitimate concerns of people who see harms in their communities. The media completely vilified those discussing apartment takeovers by Venezuelan gangs in my community. It didn’t matter the residents were being threatened and harmed. They were sacrificed because the politics demanded they be ignored. They were all evicted. If no one wants ICE in neighborhoods, petition your government to honor ICE detainers so at least there is cooperation when removing illegals who are breaking other laws. (Besides immigration laws and identity theft and legal work requirements and tax laws…) It is irresponsible to brainwash people to think saving some rapist from deportation using whistles and cars to interfer with ice is a good thing. Many who are not criminals have final removal orders from a judge…they still scream about no due process. It seems a large percentage here believe it just to ignore the laws they don’t like and anyone who disagrees is a meany. Biden completely and purposely broke the border. The budget impacts have been enormous in Denver and Colorado. The human cost catastrophic. It was a cartel enrichment scheme but those rapes/deaths/lost minors/crimes were ignored. Obama’s record on deportations is more problematic but was ignored by those who are upset now.
Danzo Posted February 6 Posted February 6 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: These discussions devolve into some form of ‘if you support borders and actually enforcing current immigration laws you’re just a far right bigot and not Christ like.’ There is a good reason the rape gangs in England were allowed to flourish. Being called a name is much worse than letting little girls be groomed and trafficked. Completely ignored are the legitimate concerns of people who see harms in their communities. The media completely vilified those discussing apartment takeovers by Venezuelan gangs in my community. It didn’t matter the residents were being threatened and harmed. They were sacrificed because the politics demanded they be ignored. They were all evicted. If no one wants ICE in neighborhoods, petition your government to honor ICE detainers so at least there is cooperation when removing illegals who are breaking other laws. (Besides immigration laws and identity theft and legal work requirements and tax laws…) It is irresponsible to brainwash people to think saving some rapist from deportation using whistles and cars to interfer with ice is a good thing. Many who are not criminals have final removal orders from a judge…they still scream about no due process. It seems a large percentage here believe it just to ignore the laws they don’t like and anyone who disagrees is a meany. Biden completely and purposely broke the border. The budget impacts have been enormous in Denver and Colorado. The human cost catastrophic. It was a cartel enrichment scheme but those rapes/deaths/lost minors/crimes were ignored. Obama’s record on deportations is more problematic but was ignored by those who are upset now. You actually want deportation to be the punishment for rape?, Rape someone and get a free ticket to your home country? Do you actually read what you are writing? 1
JVW Posted February 6 Posted February 6 I'd like to formally request @Nemesis to lock this topic. It feels like I'm on FB right now.
bsjkki Posted February 6 Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, Danzo said: You actually want deportation to be the punishment for rape?, Rape someone and get a free ticket to your home country? Do you actually read what you are writing? Detainers are served when someone has finished their sentence. Yes, I know this because my daughter-in-laws father was deported after serving his 1 year rape sentence in the county jail in Michigan after raping his cognitively impaired niece for 5 years after grooming her when driving her to seminary in the morning. My daughter-in-law was so incredibly happy he was deported so she did not live in fear of him showing up on her doorstep. She was very upset by the light sentence. Her cousin served 'more time' than her dad plus a life filled with emotional repercussions from the abuse. He was white and Canadian so I guess ICE cooperation was okay in Michigan 3 years ago. ICE used to have offices in jails in Minnesota too, so this was a smooth and safe process. Sanctuary cities demand no cooperation so the bad guys are released back into vulnerable communities to do more harm to vulnerable populations. Somehow, this is seen as a good thing by many. I don't see it. In Denver, cops have to chase these released criminals through the streets. 1
bsjkki Posted February 6 Posted February 6 15 hours ago, bluebell said: It's a criminal act (misdemeanor) to cross the border illegally but "unlawful presence" is only a civil violation. It's similar in severity to a parking ticket. Legally, the remedy is the same. 1
Danzo Posted February 6 Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Detainers are served when someone has finished their sentence. Yes, I know this because my daughter-in-laws father was deported after serving his 1 year rape sentence in the county jail in Michigan after raping his cognitively impaired niece for 5 years after grooming her when driving her to seminary in the morning. My daughter-in-law was so incredibly happy he was deported so she did not live in fear of him showing up on her doorstep. She was very upset by the light sentence. Her cousin served 'more time' than her dad plus a life filled with emotional repercussions from the abuse. He was white and Canadian so I guess ICE cooperation was okay in Michigan 3 years ago. ICE used to have offices in jails in Minnesota too, so this was a smooth and safe process. Sanctuary cities demand no cooperation so the bad guys are released back into vulnerable communities to do more harm to vulnerable populations. Somehow, this is seen as a good thing by many. I don't see it. In Denver, cops have to chase these released criminals through the streets. One year for rape? There is the real problem, and it has nothing to do with foreigners being in America. Two people commit a crime. One is a US citizen and one is a Foreigner. You are ok with there being two different penalties for the same crime? Somehow the foreigner is more guilty?
bsjkki Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Danzo said: One year for rape? There is the real problem, and it has nothing to do with foreigners being in America. Two people commit a crime. One is a US citizen and one is a Foreigner. You are ok with there being two different penalties for the same crime? Somehow the foreigner is more guilty? No, I just think the foreigner with no legal status should be deported for being in the country illegally. It's a separate crime from the initial crime. Are we required to not ever deport anyone once they cross the border? Edited February 6 by bsjkki
Danzo Posted February 6 Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, bsjkki said: No, I just think the foreigner with no legal status should be deported for being in the country illegally. It's a separate crime from the initial crime. Are we required to not ever deport anyone once they cross the border? Sometimes deportation is the answer and sometimes it isn't. There are times when deporting someone is more evil than allowing them to stay. There is no one answer for every situation. 3
Calm Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, JVW said: I'd like to formally request @Nemesis to lock this topic. It feels like I'm on FB right now. You do this by clicking on the three dots in the upper right hand corner of the offending post or just the last post of the thread (same three dots you use for editing your own post or sharing a post) so far and hitting report and then explain why you think it should be closed (usually I say “political” or “personal”, maybe vent a little 😛 ). I report using my own post sometimes if it’s a tech issue. The mods typically don’t seem to read the board much anymore, so you have to use the report function to get their attention and it can take a day or two at times for a response, so don’t assume they didn’t get the message. Edited February 6 by Calm
JVW Posted February 6 Posted February 6 30 minutes ago, Calm said: You do this by clicking on the three dots in the upper right hand corner of the offending post or just the last post of the thread (same three dots you use for editing your own post or sharing a post) so far and hitting report and then explain why you think it should be closed (usually I say “political” or “personal”, maybe vent a little 😛 ). I report using my own post sometimes if it’s a tech issue. The mods typically don’t seem to read the board much anymore, so you have to use the report function to get their attention and it can take a day or two at times for a response, so don’t assume they didn’t get the message. Oh ok, thanks Calm. 2
Tacenda Posted February 6 Posted February 6 On 2/1/2026 at 3:14 PM, Durangout said: If you knew of members of your ward that had robbed a local store, would you report them? Of course you would. This is NO different. The Church refuses to baptize illegal aliens in the US. Why? BC they don’t approve of lawbreakers or support lawbreaking. Why do you all? CFR, from my research, the church does baptize undocumented immigrants.
The Nehor Posted February 6 Posted February 6 5 hours ago, bsjkki said: These discussions devolve into some form of ‘if you support borders and actually enforcing current immigration laws you’re just a far right bigot and not Christ like.’ There is a good reason the rape gangs in England were allowed to flourish. Being called a name is much worse than letting little girls be groomed and trafficked. Completely ignored are the legitimate concerns of people who see harms in their communities. The media completely vilified those discussing apartment takeovers by Venezuelan gangs in my community. It didn’t matter the residents were being threatened and harmed. They were sacrificed because the politics demanded they be ignored. They were all evicted. If no one wants ICE in neighborhoods, petition your government to honor ICE detainers so at least there is cooperation when removing illegals who are breaking other laws. (Besides immigration laws and identity theft and legal work requirements and tax laws…) It is irresponsible to brainwash people to think saving some rapist from deportation using whistles and cars to interfer with ice is a good thing. Many who are not criminals have final removal orders from a judge…they still scream about no due process. It seems a large percentage here believe it just to ignore the laws they don’t like and anyone who disagrees is a meany. Almost none of the migrants being deported by ICE are rapists. This is a dumb deflection and it is hard to take seriously from people who think electing perverts and rapists into high offices is the solution. 5 hours ago, bsjkki said: Biden completely and purposely broke the border. The budget impacts have been enormous in Denver and Colorado. The human cost catastrophic. It was a cartel enrichment scheme but those rapes/deaths/lost minors/crimes were ignored. Obama’s record on deportations is more problematic but was ignored by those who are upset now. Nope. The ‘border crisis’ is caused by the fact that we don’t have the judicial resources to deal with the backlog of asylum cases so people have to wait years to get a hearing. Democrats often try to increase the number of immigration judges but the GOP shuts it down every time so the problem gets worse. They like it being worse because it serves as a wonderful distraction and rallying point. If you want to fix a problem look for the actual bottleneck causing the problem and remedy it. This isn’t complicated but it is more fun to scream about rapists because racists tell you they are the problem. Democracy doesn’t work if facts and objective reality are just ignored. 2
bsjkki Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Almost none of the migrants being deported by ICE are rapists. This is a dumb deflection and it is hard to take seriously from people who think electing perverts and rapists into high offices is the solution. Nope. The ‘border crisis’ is caused by the fact that we don’t have the judicial resources to deal with the backlog of asylum cases so people have to wait years to get a hearing. Democrats often try to increase the number of immigration judges but the GOP shuts it down every time so the problem gets worse. They like it being worse because it serves as a wonderful distraction and rallying point. If you want to fix a problem look for the actual bottleneck causing the problem and remedy it. This isn’t complicated but it is more fun to scream about rapists because racists tell you they are the problem. Democracy doesn’t work if facts and objective reality are just ignored. The backlog is due to Biden breaking the asylum process. See backlog chart. Can we agree that these 25000 listed should have been handed over and the 33,000 in California prisons should be handed over upon release? https://www.dhs.gov/news/2026/02/05/murderers-sex-offenders-and-drug-traffickers-released-jails-directly-california https://www.dhs.gov/wow I don’t under why you want convicted criminals to stay. Plus over a million have final removal orders. Edited February 6 by bsjkki 2
Danzo Posted February 6 Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, bsjkki said: The backlog is due to Biden breaking the asylum process. See backlog chart. Can we agree that these 25000 listed should have been handed over and the 33,000 in California prisons should be handed over upon release? https://www.dhs.gov/news/2026/02/05/murderers-sex-offenders-and-drug-traffickers-released-jails-directly-california https://www.dhs.gov/wow I don’t under why you want convicted criminals to stay. Plus over a million have final removal orders. I assume you are perfectly thrilled and happy with all people who serve their sentences being released to the public (except those scary foreigners, who deserve extra punishment) Also, I assume by your comments that you are appalled when ICE removes someone who is not in Jail and has never been convicted of any crime. (unless, of course, criminality is just a pretext)
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