Shots fired on my campus today. Charlie Kirk TPUSA leader dead

[ZealouslyStriving]

10 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I can’t believe how many can’t just give condolences without a ‘but.’ This was an awful event for our nation. Political assassinations can’t be normalized. 
 

I will quit pushing back on the ‘topics’ people are using to justify his murder. We need to be able to disagree on hot bottom topics without thinking murdering someone is the answer. I am a pro life, conservative Christian who believes in the first and second amendment. If this view deserves death, no words will ever change your mind. 
 

Kirk was all about engaging with those who did not believe as he did. They killed him for it. 

The responses here have shown just how entrenched this (spiritual) heart disease has become. The response just following your post here puts total blame on religious belief, leaving out the fact the Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century than all holy wars combined throughout history.

I mourn for our world. 😢

I just want a cabin in the woods where I can be alone and die in peace. I'm so done.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

The response just following your post here puts total blame on religious belief, leaving out the fact the Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century than all holy wars combined throughout history.

This is what he said…

Quote

I claim to be an Evangelical Christian and a student of religion and conflict. In both roles I worry about the potential that beliefs, religion, faith, and the like have to foster environments of conflict, and yes, even violence.

He was focused on religion and conflict (he after all has studied it), but speaking of its potential to foster violence does not imply he sees that it’s inherent and must occur, nor does it exclude he sees other possibilities of conflict.

Do you see it as necessary to include all potential causes of something when you discuss influences?  It does not seem so from past posts of yours.

If your doctor were to focus on counseling you to exercise where you could and to have better sleep hygiene because you went in to talk to him about how exhausted you were, do you see his advice as incomplete if he also does not counsel you to stay out of debt and love your wife (very good advice, but not relevant to what he has chosen to focus on in his field)?

[Calm]

11 hours ago, Damien the Leper said:

Mass/school shootings have. 

I missed this before.  What do you believe is evidence that they have been normalized?  Maybe you could define what you mean by normalized first.  

They are seen imo by pretty much everyone as horrendous crimes, perpetrators are treated as criminals or mentally ill.  To me that is not looking at mass/school shootings as normal.

Quote

Your rant sounds just like all the other so-called conservatives attempting to sound scandalised.

 

Bjskki is a longtime poster who has demonstrated her sincerity over and over again.  I think it quite inappropriate to suggest she is playing any sort of mind game, manipulating, or whatever other form of insincerity you are implying she is engaging in with “attempting to sound scandalized”.

Her comment sounds full of pain to me.  

Edited September 12, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

7 hours ago, JAHS said:

By the end of the day, he would be detained, questioned, and even labeled as the suspect in the fatal shooting of political commentator Charlie Kirk before being cleared of all suspicion and released.

Was he labeled as a suspect by law enforcement?  I heard and read people calling him that because they jumped to conclusions on hearing someone was detained, there were some rumors about him that seemed to later be disproven which could lead to thinking he was a suspect, such as he had confessed (I assumed he was a wannabe volunteering a confession when I first heard he was not the shooter because of that rumor).

I am curious if LEOs called him a suspect or not.  It’s unfortunate that happened.

7 hours ago, JAHS said:

Returned Missionary Detained Then Released after Kirk Assassination—Family Speaks Out

Zachariah Qureshi is a 25-year-old returned missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who attended the “American Comeback Tour” at Utah Valley University as a supporter of Charlie Kirk according to his father.

By the end of the day, he would be detained, questioned, and even labeled as the suspect in the fatal shooting of political commentator Charlie Kirk before being cleared of all suspicion and released.

“It’s ridiculous. It’s absolutely uncalled for and insane,” Qureshi’s father told ABC4.com. “They should be focused on finding the killer.”

The mistaken detainment has also caused the Qureshi family to come under fire as social media conspiracies and misinformation spread, even after it became clear Zachariah played no role in the shooting.

Department of Public Safety Commissioner Beau Mason said in a press conference, “After releasing them, and after clearing them of being suspects, they faced scrutiny, they faced threats.” 

The Qureshi family has continued to receive online harassments and their family address in Texas was posted online. 

Commissioner Mason urged the public to stand down. “We ask that you do not impose into those people and that investigative process,” he said. “They don’t deserve that harassment for being subject to that.”

 

This was not good.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/national/north-texas-family-says-son-wrongly-linked-charlie-kirk-shooting-asks-public-stop-spreading-false-claims/287-671ff337-b6e3-43bf-ae2e-06cb79a809d8

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fbi-director-kash-patel-faces-scrutiny-inaccurately-saying-kirk-killer-had-been-2025-09-11/

Edited September 12, 2025 by Calm

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

The responses here have shown just how entrenched this (spiritual) heart disease has become. The response just following your post here puts total blame on religious belief, leaving out the fact the Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century than all holy wars combined throughout history.

I mourn for our world. 😢

I just want a cabin in the woods where I can be alone and die in peace. I'm so done.

If you were referring in this post to my post "putting total blame on religious belief," let me assure you I was not putting any blame, partial blame, or total blame on religious belief for anything. The topic was about violence, and the forum is a forum that, to a significant degree, is about religion. Religious conflict is an interest of mine; it has been a fact of life for many years of human existence.

I don't believe the principal tenet of Communism is "anti-religion." Having said all of that, I would love to hear more specifics from you about your claim that "Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century (the last twenty-five years) than all holy wars combined throughout history." That is an astounding claim. I am asking you for your citation or references for that claim. I would like to know more. Thanks and best wishes. BTW, I mourn for our world as well. 

[Tony uk]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

I agree we need self defense tools.  I am not arguing for completely English style laws.  I am curious though if the increase in stabbing attacks means there is no significant decrease in overall violence (one tool for violence has just replaced another rather decrease in accidental/unintential gun injury and deaths being more significant than increase in stabbing injury and deaths).  While stabbings can certainly be harmful and definitely fatal, seems like they would still cause less injury overall than guns.

I am thinking along the lines of just removing guns from accessibility will not prevent suicides from occurring as there are infinite ways this can happen, but most other forms require thought and take longer allowing regret and other emotions to play a bigger factor in stopping completion of the act of taking one’s own life.  Besides lowering chances of accidental deaths by removing guns, it is easier it seems to me to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger when the situation gets too intense than it is to feel oneself push a knife into someone else’s flesh (thinking about crimes where the purpose is robbery or something that is not inherently intended to physically harm the other).

 

With you, on this Calm. Over the last few years in the UK as whole. Knife crime seems to have been on the rise, listening to media reports. Various initiatives have taken place, handing in of dangerous weapons. However, considering the various types of nives available, and the various domestic needs for this item. It is virtually impossible to cut out the knife as a dangerous weapon. 

 Although, I am not inclined to dictate to another country how to deal with it's own affairs. Maybe if the US tightened it's gun licencing laws. Higher the age of gun user, limit the amount of guns owned in one household, and also by a person. The various weapons by type, be limited to type. Maybe this is already place, not my place, just trying to be helpful to all sides of the argument.

I just hope the US can overcome any problems it is dealing with.

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

If you were referring in this post to my post "putting total blame on religious belief," let me assure you I was not putting any blame, partial blame, or total blame on religious belief for anything. The topic was about violence, and the forum is a forum that, to a significant degree, is about religion. Religious conflict is an interest of mine; it has been a fact of life for many years of human existence.

I don't believe the principal tenet of Communism is "anti-religion." Having said all of that, I would love to hear more specifics from you about your claim that "Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century (the last twenty-five years) than all holy wars combined throughout history." That is an astounding claim. I am asking you for your citation or references for that claim. I would like to know more. Thanks and best wishes. BTW, I mourn for our world as well. 

20th century (pardon me)

Though people try to dress it up in flowery language about "workers rights", the ultimate goal of Communism is to destroy faith in God and replace it with government

100 Years of Communism: Death and Deprivation | Cato Institute https://share.google/cyVRsXyMVhrgIsfEO

 

Edited September 12, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[Zosimus]

4 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

The responses here have shown just how entrenched this (spiritual) heart disease has become. The response just following your post here puts total blame on religious belief, leaving out the fact the Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century than all holy wars combined throughout history.

I mourn for our world. 😢

There's definitely a heart disease. Things are only going to get rougher

Odds have just gone up dramatically that the shooter was a young Mormon kid. His father, a "minister" turned him in.
 

 

[webbles]

20 minutes ago, Zosimus said:

Odds have just gone up dramatically that the shooter was a young Mormon kid. His father, a "minister" turned him in.

I think the minister is a different person from his father.  https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2025/09/11/who-killed-charlie-kirk-details/ quotes Trump as saying

Quote

It was a minister... and his good friend is a top U.S. Marshal, and they took it from there. And then a father got involved, namely his father," Trump said.

That sounds like 3 different people.  The minister (who very well could be a bishop), a US Marshal (friend of the minister), and his father.  But we should find out more in the next hour or so.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Was he labeled as a suspect by law enforcement?

 

Kash Patel FBI director:
https://x.com/FBIDirectorKash/status/1965903392934633587
“

The subject for the horrific shooting today that took the life of Charlie Kirk is now in custody. Thank you to the local and state authorities in Utah for your partnership with

@fbi

. We will provide updates when able.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2025 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Zosimus]

Tyler Robinson, a 4.0 student with a university scholarship from Washington Utah. No indication whether or not he is LDS. It is southern Utah so the odds aren't as high as if he were from Orem

https://x.com/RedPill78/status/1966494010052120672

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, Zosimus said:

There's definitely a heart disease. Things are only going to get rougher

Odds have just gone up dramatically that the shooter was a young Mormon kid. His father, a "minister" turned him in.
 

 

From the same interview:

”

'I couldn't care less', Trump says about division within the country

The president, when asked about how we “fix the country” or “come back together” after Kirk’s shooting, says that he “couldn’t care less”.

“The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don’t want to see crime. They don’t want to see crime, worried about the border,” Trump says. “The radicals on the left are the problem, and they’re vicious and they’re horrible and they’re politically savvy”.

[ZealouslyStriving]

46 minutes ago, webbles said:

I think the minister is a different person from his father.  https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2025/09/11/who-killed-charlie-kirk-details/ quotes Trump as saying

That sounds like 3 different people.  The minister (who very well could be a bishop), a US Marshal (friend of the minister), and his father.  But we should find out more in the next hour or so.

Yeah, it's confusing. I think he confessed to his Dad and they went to his friend, the marshall, who is a Bishop.

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

The responses here have shown just how entrenched this (spiritual) heart disease has become. The response just following your post here puts total blame on religious belief, leaving out the fact the Communism (anti-religion) killed more people in the 21st century than all holy wars combined throughout history.

I mourn for our world. 😢

I just want a cabin in the woods where I can be alone and die in peace. I'm so done.

I hear you, but maybe for somewhat different reasons.

[Tacenda]

17 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

From the same interview:

”

'I couldn't care less', Trump says about division within the country

The president, when asked about how we “fix the country” or “come back together” after Kirk’s shooting, says that he “couldn’t care less”.

“The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don’t want to see crime. They don’t want to see crime, worried about the border,” Trump says. “The radicals on the left are the problem, and they’re vicious and they’re horrible and they’re politically savvy”.

That's the last thing this country needs. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

55 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's the last thing this country needs. 

It's just depressing. Between cable news and social media I'm not sure we all survive this as a country.

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I hear you, but maybe for somewhat different reasons.

I'm sure.

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, Zosimus said:

Tyler Robinson, a 4.0 student with a university scholarship from Washington Utah. No indication whether or not he is LDS. It is southern Utah so the odds aren't as high as if he were from Orem

https://x.com/RedPill78/status/1966494010052120672

The Mormon bashing has already begun online.  Posters are claiming he’s Mormon, and attacking the Church. 

[teddyaware]

On 9/11/2025 at 2:45 AM, rodheadlee said:

Yeah, you are part of the problem. 

The lie that engaging in spirited and even intense political debate is a form of punishable violence is the cause of the problem. “Don’t tell me that biological men who identify as women can’t compete on women’s sports teams or we will shut you up with laws against ‘hate speech,’ and if that doesn’t work we’ll utilize more potent methods of shutting you up!”

[Zosimus]

20 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

The Mormon bashing has already begun online.  Posters are claiming he’s Mormon, and attacking the Church. 

This Tyler kid is looking more and more like a groyper to me. He even dressed up as a groyper meme for halloween one year.

If you don't know what a groyper is, they are a group that split off from the alt-right because people like Charlie Kirk were deemed too conservative. Nick Fuentes pushed his "groyper army" to sneak into Turning Point events and expose Kirk as a conservative fraud.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groypers

[ttribe]

44 minutes ago, Zosimus said:

This Tyler kid is looking more and more like a groyper to me. He even dressed up as a groyper meme for halloween one year.

If you don't know what a groyper is, they are a group that split off from the alt-right because people like Charlie Kirk were deemed too conservative. Nick Fuentes pushed his "groyper army" to sneak into Turning Point events and expose Kirk as a conservative fraud.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groypers

That picture is of his younger brother.

[Zosimus]

14 minutes ago, ttribe said:

That picture is of his younger brother.

I don't want to post the pics because the family doesn't deserve that, but the mother says in the caption that it was Tyler that dressed up as "some guy from a meme" 

The meme:

[ttribe]

8 minutes ago, Zosimus said:

I don't want to post the pics because the family doesn't deserve that, but the mother says in the caption that it was Tyler that dressed up as "some guy from a meme" 

The meme:

I was wrong. I misread his mom's post and thought it was the younger brother, for some reason. You were correct, he did dress up as the Groyper meme.

[JVW]

Before I begin I want to thank the forum for allowing this discussion to happen even though it is a politics related discussion. Thank you.

This event occurred very close to where I live and it's had a very real impact on my family and community. I know people who were there in the front row when it happened (one of whom is a friend of my under 10 year old daughter), I have a friend who is a professor at that university. I hadn't really heard of Charlie before this happened. It feels to me kind of like how 9/11 felt, I think I'll always remember this day because of how close to home it was in little old Orem, Utah. My wife and I have been in mourning, it is such a sick and awful situation and so shocking.

Anyone who is celebrating his death has their heart in the wrong place.

The day that it happened I messaged my boss and told them I had to take a half day. They were very compassionate about my situation. The next day in our morning meeting, after having researched who Charlie was, they stated that there was a silver lining to the situation; that he was a fear-mongering bigot and there's one less bad person in the world. That response made me feel sick. Celebrating, in any capacity, cold-blooded murder of one who didn't commit any crime is just plain wrong.

One thing that keeps running through my mind is that I'm only a hop, skip, and a jump away from where Charlie was. I love to debate people. I love talking religion and politics. I actually empathize with many angles to various issues. And I think that most people make really valid points and I can see where they are coming from. But if I approached the public square and debated people, there are many in the world who would cheer and celebrate my death if I had a following, and that thought makes me feel sick too. This is not only the case with those who believe the same way that Charlie did: in Jesus Christ, in his country, in the sanctity of life. This is also the case for any of you who may believe that an AI governed communist state is the ideal, or that children should be able to make sexual decisions before puberty, etc. There are those who would cheer your deaths if you had a following and were murdered in cold blood. That is just plain wrong. It is not ok.

For many years I have told people that in order to "love your enemy" you first need to recognize who your enemy is. In the past, I have had to be very discerning about who among us would be potentially or actively harmful to me or my family. The response to this murder makes it a little easier for me to see who the enemy is. Who is destructive, cold, heartless, and vindictive. I will not mince words here. You all know I'm a very gentle, friendly type of guy. And even months from now I will still enjoy lively discussion, even with those I can now recognize as evil people. It takes all kinds, and that's what makes life fun. But a line has been drawn.

Perhaps the most tragic thing about this situation is that now that people can discern who their enemy is so easily (on either side of the line, horror or celebration), there will be no love there, only violence and contention. It is my opinion that "love your enemy" is the hardest of all of God's commandments to keep, and the one which requires the greatest change of heart. I will also add here that I have learned to love my enemy. I do not hold grudges, I do not dismiss or belittle others I disagree with, I am not inclined to anger or resentment, and I bear no ill-will towards any member of this forum, regardless of how they've responded to this sick and tragic event.

I hope for a future in which people can continue to enjoy lively debate and be respected, regardless of what they believe. I hope that people will choose to love their neighbor, walk a mile in their shoes, and stand up for what they believe in, regardless of what they believe. I hope I can honor Charlie's memory by trying to stand a little taller and being a little more committed to my faith and family. I also hope our message board can continue to be a wonderful place to explore all of the dirty, juicy stuff going on in the Church with so much variety of opinion.

May God bless us all.

 

[Damien the Leper]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

I missed this before.  What do you believe is evidence that they have been normalized?  Maybe you could define what you mean by normalized first.  

They are seen imo by pretty much everyone as horrendous crimes, perpetrators are treated as criminals or mentally ill.  To me that is not looking at mass/school shootings as normal.

 

Bjskki is a longtime poster who has demonstrated her sincerity over and over again.  I think it quite inappropriate to suggest she is playing any sort of mind game, manipulating, or whatever other form of insincerity you are implying she is engaging in with “attempting to sound scandalized”.

Her comment sounds full of pain to me.  

What I mean by normalised is that people, not all, are never ever truly shocked when a mass/school shootings occurs. They are a part of everyday American life. It is absolutely reprehensible that people seem to hold their guns closer than they do their children, their loved ones or humanity as a whole. I am so sick and tired of the shallow bullsh!t offered up as rationalisations. Thoughts and prayers? Are you kidding me? People are dying! When the Pulse night club was shot up, Marco Rubio simply said it was Florida's turn. Florida's turn? Again, are you kidding me!?! Kirk's death is getting more airplay than the kids that were shot in Colorado. People have moved on from another school shooting. That's par for the course. I am absolutely devastated by the fact that we continue to allow this to happen. I am so damn angry! Our complacency should be our downfall.