Worthiness

[Nofear]

The concept of worthiness is a tough concept for some. We, after all, are of infinite value in the Lord's sight. Some ask why they should defer to the judgment of some man as to whether or not they are "worthy" to enter to the temple, partake of the sacrament, or other things. Their judgement neither adds to or subtracts from one's infinite "worth".

I like this sister's particular take on it. For her, the idea of "worthiness" is in no manner a reflection of worth or value, but rather a short-hand on our view of the worth or value that we attribute to certain things as exemplified by our external behaviors. For example, if I hold the temple to be of great worth, then I'll align my conduct in a manner that reflects that view. But, to the extent that I don't value the temple's worth (as reflected by my behaviors) and see the temple as "worthy", I am not in sync or harmonized with it, aka, not "worthy".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOgxJEUG2gg

 

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Nofear said:

like this sister's particular take on it. For her, the idea of "worthiness" is in no manner a reflection of worth or value, but rather a short-hand on our view of the worth or value that we attribute to certain things as exemplified by our external behaviors. For example, if I hold the temple to be of great worth, then I'll align my conduct in a manner that reflects that view. But, to the extent that I don't value the temple's worth (as reflected by my behaviors) and see the temple as "worthy", I am not in sync or harmonized with it, aka, not "worthy".

I haven’t read this yet…don’t feel like reading anything longer than a typical post right now 😛 .  It does align pretty well with what I see as the main purpose of mortality other than giving us access to a physical body and that is determining what is important to us personally as opposed to what we see as important because of influence from others (think of how parents or friends or cool stories or pictures can influence what a child wants to be or do or have when they are adults, but when they actually are adults they may find out they don’t actually care to be doctors or engineers like their parent nor do they want to travel like their friends or have an expensive car with all the worry like ads are telling them).  What we invest time in or would have if we could shows what is most important to us.  I am not interested in posting an epic post right now explaining how I can see this happening in mortality even with all the access limitations so it is impossible for us to have a chance to try everything enough to know how we value each choice, so just assume my theory provides a reasonable process for that such that when it is judgment time we know beyond a doubt what we truly want to be and have for eternity.

And therefore we will be willing to modify our eternal behaviour, to be in harmony as you say to be able to accept the blessings God wants to give us to achieve these desires.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Calm

[Stargazer]

"Worthy" is one of those English words that can take on so many different meanings. In one sense, none of us is worthy. In another, most are.

In Revelation 5, we read that no-one was worthy to open the book with seven seals, except the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. 

One of the senses of the word is "suitable," or "suited to the purpose." Someone may speak of a saddle as "worthy." It doesn't mean that the saddle is morally superior -- just that it is suited to the purpose.

If I arrive at church having had a horrible morning so far, cursing out the other drivers on the road, giving my wife the silent treatment because she complained about the tie I chose to wear -- I may at that moment not be worthy to partake of the sacrament.

It's not something to get worked up over. If you're not worthy, straighten up and fly right. Make yourself worthy.

[Kevin Christensen]

My favorite account of worthiness comes in T. H. White's The Once and Future King, a chapter where all the knights are to take turns attempting to heal a notable person who has suffered a long and debilitating affliction.  (None of the movies or plays based on White have attempted to depict the scene.)  And the knight last to try will be Lancelot, who knows that because of his dalliance with Guinevere, is unworthy, and that his unworthiness is about to be exposed to everyone.  And yet he must make the attempt because everyone there, especially the suffering individual, so strongly believes in him, that as a knight of honor and courage, he has to try, knowing he will fail in disgrace and disappointment to everyone.  The chapter is extraordinary, and so masterfully written that any summary would not do it justice.  But it says what it says so powerfully that can actually enact what it describes for a receptive reader and transform and change a person for the better and refine their views on what worthiness means in a Christian context.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Kevin Christensen

[bluebell]

I haven't read the article yet either, but whenever the topic comes up I remember this quote (from someone):  You may sometimes be less worthy of certain blessings, but you are never worth less.

I think there are different ways of looking at worthiness interviews where it's actually about "prepared and capable" than our typical definition of worthy, which usually means some form of 'deserving'.

I don't think we are ever deserving of the endowment, for example, but we definitely can be prepared for and capable of fulfilling/keeping the added responsibilities and covenants of the endowment, or not prepared for nor capable of....

[The Nehor]

The scriptures tell us that the worth of souls is great in the eyes of God but I don’t think that means they have infinite worth. I am not sure if there is a difference there at all though. We don’t have a concept of infinite worth in mortality. We might say that human lives are of infinite worth but we clearly don’t mean it.

[Kevin Christensen]

36 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The scriptures tell us that the worth of souls is great in the eyes of God but I don’t think that means they have infinite worth. I am not sure if there is a difference there at all though. We don’t have a concept of infinite worth in mortality. We might say that human lives are of infinite worth but we clearly don’t mean it.

Actually, Brigham Young commented that the lowest person was worth worlds.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[manol]

2 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Actually, Brigham Young commented that the lowest person was worth worlds.

Dangit.   Just when I was all set to throw Brigham under the bus...

My reading of more near-death experiences than I can count leads me to the exact same conclusion. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Actually, Brigham Young commented that the lowest person was worth worlds.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

How many worlds?

I accept that the worth is great but that is not infinite.

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

accept that the worth is great but that is not infinite.

If we are eternal beings, why can’t our worth be infinite?

[Dario_M]

Btw what means "aka?"

For the rest i just wanna say that i'm really glad that i am worthy enough to have my temple recommendation so that i can inter the temple to serve others. Ooh and btw... yesterday i had contact with my stake president through whatsapp. The dear guy wanted to invite me for a feest in our ward, on sunday, with food. I said "perhaps i will stay after the surch service to eat some food with you guys." So thoughtfull of him to think about me. Otherwise i would have never know. 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Dario_M

[Calm]

Also known as…

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

If we are eternal beings, why can’t our worth be infinite?

It might be. I just don’t see scriptural support for the idea.

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Btw what means "aka?"

For the rest i just wanna say that i'm really glad that i am worthy enough to have my temple recommendation so that i can inter the temple to serve others. Ooh and btw... yesterday i had contact with my stake president through whatsapp. The dear guy wanted to invite me for a feest in our ward, on sunday, with food. I said "perhaps i will stay after the surch service to eat some food with you guys." So thoughtfull of him to think about me. Otherwise i would have never know. 

Awesome Dario! And I love that you get to serve in the temple too!

[Nofear]

14 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The scriptures tell us that the worth of souls is great in the eyes of God but I don’t think that means they have infinite worth. I am not sure if there is a difference there at all though. We don’t have a concept of infinite worth in mortality. We might say that human lives are of infinite worth but we clearly don’t mean it.

Please allow my use of the word "infinite" in this case to be a superlative to indicate immense value and not a mathematically precise application of the term "infinite". That causes all kinds of problems.

Besides, there are an infinite number of infinities with different cardinalities ("size"). Could one's "infinite worth" technically be bigger than another's "infinite worth"? 🥸

[Dario_M]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Awesome Dario! And I love that you get to serve in the temple too!

Yeah but i haven't done it yet though. I didn't had the change so far to go to the temple yet. But it's a future plan for the new year, to go to the temple and serve people. 💙⛪️

[Dario_M]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Also known as…

Aawh thank you Calm. I just heard it everywhere but didn't know what it meant. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Nofear said:

Please allow my use of the word "infinite" in this case to be a superlative to indicate immense value and not a mathematically precise application of the term "infinite". That causes all kinds of problems.

Besides, there are an infinite number of infinities with different cardinalities ("size"). Could one's "infinite worth" technically be bigger than another's "infinite worth"? 🥸

My infinite worth can beat up your infinite worth.

[manol]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It might be. I just don’t see scriptural support for the idea.

"For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect." 

This was said in the context of baptism for the dead, but ultimately we are all related to one another, so the concept is not restricted to near-term family lines.  

[The Nehor]

50 minutes ago, manol said:

"For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect." 

This was said in the context of baptism for the dead, but ultimately we are all related to one another, so the concept is not restricted to near-term family lines.  

At the time they were using more dynastic sealings so I am not sure this was directly tied to blood ancestry.

[manol]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

At the time they were using more dynastic sealings so I am not sure this was directly tied to blood ancestry.

From the verse preceding the one I quoted from:

"And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers..."

That being said, I think our connections to one another are more like a web, and are far more pervasive than blood ancestry implies.  Sometimes they show up as natural affinity.  Sometimes they show up as love.  Sometimes those we are connected to show up as sparring partners in this lifetime.  We are incomplete without them, and they without us.  Imo.

Edited December 19, 2024 by manol

[T-Shirt]

On 12/18/2024 at 1:21 PM, Stargazer said:

If I arrive at church having had a horrible morning so far, cursing out the other drivers on the road, giving my wife the silent treatment because she complained about the tie I chose to wear -- I may at that moment not be worthy to partake of the sacrament.

According to Elder Bednar, in these moments, of course you should take the Sacrament. That's what the Sacrament is for!

[Stargazer]

33 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

According to Elder Bednar, in these moments, of course you should take the Sacrament. That's what the Sacrament is for!

I may beg to differ somewhat on the details of this.