Correct terminology

[Tony uk]

Since I joined the forum on Wednesday, I have received a warm welcome. I just wanted to ask. Do members of the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints like to be called Mormon or prefer something else. Also is it Church or Chapel. 

[the narrator]

33 minutes ago, Tony uk said:

Do members of the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints like to be called Mormon or prefer something else.

Member preference may vary, but leadership demands that “Mormon” not be used, or else.

[Tony uk]

Thanks for that, wanted to make sure.

[Pyreaux]

8 hours ago, the narrator said:

Member preference may vary, but leadership demands that “Mormon” not be used, or else.

As everyone can see, it seems like you're just using the question, not to inform but, as an opportunity to express some frustration with leadership, as it doesn't even really address the question. To clarify, the preference of Church members varies, but official guidance from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has recently emphasized making use of the full name of the Church rather than the term the 'Mormons' or the "Mormon Church" to more accurately reflect our denomination's beliefs apart from denominations calling themselves "Mormons" and to honor Jesus Christ, not the Prophet Mormon. So, to properly shorten what we call members is the "Latter-day Saints", or "the Saints", members of the "Church of Jesus Christ" if anything. This is a respectful request, not a 'demand" as it was so disrespectfully framed. The use of "Mormon" has gone through phases of popularity, however it is both a historic and a modern pejorative, as evidenced here, because mainly it's critics of the church who seem to dislike the request more than anyone.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

I prefer “Saints” because it’s short, lol, and it’s what early church members typically called each other, I believe.  Latter-day Saints (small letter “d”) distinguishes us from other denominations under the Mormon umbrella….though many Saints would insist “Mormon” only applies to us as well, I am not sure if that is historically accurate.  I personally am fine to include anyone who believes the Book of Mormon as scripture and Joseph Smith as prophet under the umbrella term Mormon (one reason I am glad our leaders are moving us away from using it for us specifically), but it is very confusing for most people who associated “Mormon” with the Salt Lake centered denomination (also known as Brighamites by the Reorganized Church, see below).

Leadership discourages the shorthand LDS in the official style guide, but since this is more casual conversation, I don’t think anyone here would mind if you wrote “LDS” if you felt awkward about using “Saints” given its meaning in your own faith and you found Latter-day Saints a bit too long to write out every time.

We used a “I am a Mormon” publicity campaign not that long ago, so even the use of “Mormon” here likely won’t be seen as disrespectful since most of us grew up calling ourselves that.  Leadership asked us to stick with what we believe is the revealed name of the Church and drop the nickname both as a sign of respect for the Church and to avoid confusion over who we are the disciples of….or trying to be.

And while we are discouraged from using “Mormonism”, they didn’t give as a viable replacement as “The Restored Gospel” only covers some of what “Mormonism” covers.  For examples cultural traditions of Mormonism are not identical to cultural traditions of the Restored Gospel as Mormonism is more than just the religion.  And it feels inappropriate to me to claim to be doing scientific studies on The Restored Gospel to me that is the set of doctrines and practices that teach us about Christ and how to become like him.  Studying The Restored Gospel is something very different in my head that studying Mormonism.  So I see us as forced to still resort to “Mormonism” now when talking about something besides the set of doctrine, beliefs, teachings and practices of our faith.  “Latter-day Saintism” would likely be the appropriate replacement in line with the other changes, but I haven’t seen anyone using it.

Btw, explaining the same “d” and hyphen…those are required to distinguish us from other early break offs.  Of course, we see them as breaking off from us, the original faith, they might not agree.  The first (I believe it was the first) and most successful schism group was The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (capital D and no hyphen) to me was less of a break off and more a splitting of the original group under Joseph Smith after his death.  A good portion of members did not accept Brigham Young as the successor of Joseph and later on determined the appropriate successor was a son of Joseph, Joseph Smith the III.  I believe they probably have the strongest case for a different form of succession.  Latter-day Saints probably see the succession as pretty clear cut looking back, but it surely wasn’t so obvious when you are on the ground at that time because church leadership structure had changed over time and while we believe the final form left the keys of authority in the hands of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles once the President of the Church dies, others do not and in some cases for go reason.

The Reorganized Church changed their name to Community of Christ awhile back.  They never adopted some of the later developments that occurred in Nauvoo before Joseph died and instead claim they were novelties introduced by Brigham Young, such as polygamy and temple ordinances.

Nice list of the “Mormon” umbrella denominations…though some reject the label “Mormon” to avoid the link to our faith, which is the one most associated with the label or to the history of polygamy, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_denominations_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

Another btw, we tend to call our first two presidents by their first names, Joseph or Brigham, later ones are typical referred to as Pres Hinckley or by their full name including their middle initial…somehow using three names instead of two for leaders became traditional.  Speculation alert:  Maybe because to more easily tell the difference since many leaders came from the same families and even had the same name or close.  We have President Joseph Smith, Pres. Joseph F Smith, Pres Joseph Fielding Smith, Pres George Albert Smith, leaders included one George A. Smith for the most obvious example.  With early church leaders in Utah having large numbers of children due to their polygamous marriages, there could be a lot of duplicate first and last names within a few generations.

Also originally “The Prophet” (capital P) always referred to Joseph, in the 1950s it started to be used for the current President of the Church….kind of incorrectly because it implies we have only one prophet in our faith, while we have many as all of the apostles are also prophets, seers, and revelators.  Plus since “prophet” isn’t a priesthood office, it is possible to view people outside the hierarchy as prophets if we cared to…but most who do these days tend to be among some of the more extreme groups who see themselves as seekers of more hidden sacred knowledge, our version of Gnosticism.  Unfortunately that has led to some making money or creating their own fan group by exploiting this natural and spiritually worthy desire to seek greater knowledge from the Lord by claiming visions and wisdom beyond what is taught by our authorized leaders….

Looks like I have gone way off topic, lol.  Should wait till you are more familiar with the basics, but once I start going, everything just interlocks with so many topics, I can take off in so many directions at once.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Calm

[Pyreaux]

Latter-day Lingo and Catholic Counterparts

Ward and Parish

Ward: A local congregation of members within a given geographic area, typically led by a bishop.
Parish: A local church community headed by a priest, which also serves a specific geographic area.

Stake and Diocese

Stake: A Stake of the Tent of Zion is a larger unit consisting of multiple wards, usually overseen by a stake president. It is a geographical administrative district.
Diocese: A geographic area under the pastoral care of a bishop, with multiple parishes within its borders. An Archdiocese is a larger or more important diocese, often overseeing several dioceses.

Standard Works and Canon

Standard Works: Refers to the sacred scriptures of the Church, including the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.
Canon: The official collection of sacred scriptures recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, which includes the Bible with some books, such as the Deuterocanonical books.

Bishop and Bishop

LDS Bishop: The spiritual and administrative leader of a ward, responsible for overseeing spiritual and temporal needs of the members.
Roman Catholic Bishop: A high-ranking clergyman who oversees a diocese and has the authority to ordain priests and deacons. The role is similar, though the LDS bishop's responsibilities are generally more localized.

Relief Society and Women’s Catholic Organizations (e.g., Legion of Mary)

The Relief Society: A women’s organization within the Church that focuses on charity, welfare, and spiritual growth.
Roman Catholic Women’s Groups: While there isn’t an exact counterpart, organizations like the Legion of Mary and other parish-based women’s groups focus on charity, spiritual growth, and community service.

Missionary and Missionary

LDS Missionary: A young adult (typically male or female) who volunteers to serve a two-year or eighteen-month mission to teach and spread the LDS faith within every area we are free to operate.
Roman Catholic Missionary: A person sent to spread the Catholic faith in areas where Catholicism is not well-established. Both faiths send missionaries, but the LDS Church has a more structured, widespread global program.

Temple and Cathedral

Temple: A sacred building supported by one or more stakes where important ordinances, like baptism for the dead, making vows, receiving sacred anointings and vestments and marriage and familial sealing are performed. Temples are distinct from regular meetinghouses, where regular baptisms, sacraments and blessings are done.
Roman Catholic Cathedral: The principal church in a diocese, often where the bishop’s seat (cathedra) is located. Though the function and purpose differ, both are considered very significant houses of worship.

Family Home Evening and Catholic Family Devotions

Family Home Evening: A weekly tradition where families gather for prayer, lessons, and activities aimed at strengthening family bonds.
Catholic Family Devotions: While the specific structure differs, Catholic families also engage in practices such as prayer and scripture reading together to strengthen familial faith.

[MustardSeed]

Some people use the word church, chapel and ward interchangeably in reference to the building where we meet. 

The accurate terminology is church for the building, chapel for the room where we have sacrament meeting, and Ward for the congregation. 

[Calm]

41 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

LDS Bishop: The spiritual and administrative leader of a ward, responsible for overseeing spiritual and temporal needs of the members.
Roman Catholic Bishop: A high-ranking clergyman who oversees a diocese and has the authority to ordain priests and deacons. The role is similar, though the LDS bishop's responsibilities are generally more localized.

A Roman Catholic Bishop is probably closer to a Stake President and the local Priest a LDS Saint bishop, I believe.

[Calm]

43 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

LDS Missionary: A young adult (typically male or female) who volunteers to serve a two-year or eighteen-month mission to teach and spread the LDS faith within every area we are free to operate.

We also have senior missionaries, older couples or single adults who serve in a variety of ways.  They also may teach, but many are in administrative or service positions where younger missionaries are mostly in proselyting missions, though service missions are becoming more common to give more an opportunity to go on a mission as well as a better, healthier fit.

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Temple and Cathedral

Temple: A sacred building supported by one or more stakes where important ordinances, like baptism for the dead, making vows, receiving sacred anointings and vestments and marriage and familial sealing are performed. Temples are distinct from regular meetinghouses, where regular baptisms, sacraments and blessings are done.
Roman Catholic Cathedral: The principal church in a diocese, often where the bishop’s seat (cathedra) is located. Though the function and purpose differ, both are considered very significant houses of worship.

 

Temples are restricted to Saints in good standing membershipwise, while our chapel are open to the public where Cathedrals operate more as larger chapels if I understand correctly?  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Our temples now serve a very different function than our chapels, though there was more overlap in the first two built as they also served as meetinghouses.  Our temples are even closed on Sundays so everyone can attend their wards for worship service.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

43 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Some people use the word church, chapel and ward interchangeably in reference to the building where we meet. 

The accurate terminology is church for the building, chapel for the room where we have sacrament meeting, and Ward for the congregation. 

And a cultural hall that generally serves for overflow from the chapel (there is usually a massive heavy duty folding screen separating the two that can be closed to keep noise levels down when the congregation fits into the chapel.  The cultural hall also serves as a basketball court and for ward activities and parties, sometimes classes meet there if there are not enough rooms on Sunday.  There is often a stage and a kitchen area attached to the cultural hall as well.

[Calm]

Also

 

Edited November 23, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

I love this video for the specifics of the service from the POV of visitors to help those that feel awkward going to new places like me, but it is quite a few years out of date as while the LDS.org address still works for most links and searches, sometimes the links are broken.  The Church’s website is now churchofjesuschrist.org

The other out of date item that I caught was we are no longer 3 hours.  They shortened church services to 2 hours to allow for more family time and personal study time.  What used to be the second and third hour classes are now alternated weekly.

 

[Tony uk]

It seems I came to a good place for answers. Many thanks for all the responses.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Tony uk said:

It seems I came to a good place for answers. Many thanks for all the responses.

This is a great place with a great diversity of people with all walks of faith, not just the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons. I love how we can have conversations with people from all over the world. And those LDS/Mormons (for short) are some pretty knowledgeable people with great experiences and many who converted to the church late in life. 

Welcome to the board Tony uk!

Edited November 23, 2024 by Tacenda

[Tony uk]

Many thanks Tacenda, glad to be here.

[the narrator]

On 11/22/2024 at 1:54 PM, Pyreaux said:

The use of "Mormon" has gone through phases of popularity, however it is both a historic and a modern pejorative, as evidenced here, because mainly it's critics of the church who seem to dislike the request more than anyone.

While a significant portion of the unquestioning masses just accepted the prohibition (to the point of even denying the fact that Church leaders had embraced it quite often since the official COJCOLDS name was revealed), there are many faithful who dislike the change–especially among scholars in Mormon studies who have been left without viable alternatives due to the poorly thought out demands (and are accused as being critics for not acquiescing to it). 

[Robert F. Smith]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:08 PM, the narrator said:

Member preference may vary, but leadership demands that “Mormon” not be used, or else.

Nonsense.  This is just silly.

On 11/22/2024 at 1:54 PM, Pyreaux said:

As everyone can see, it seems like you're just using the question, not to inform but, as an opportunity to express some frustration with leadership, as it doesn't even really address the question. To clarify, the preference of Church members varies, but official guidance from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has recently emphasized making use of the full name of the Church rather than the term the 'Mormons' or the "Mormon Church" to more accurately reflect our denomination's beliefs apart from denominations calling themselves "Mormons" and to honor Jesus Christ, not the Prophet Mormon. So, to properly shorten what we call members is the "Latter-day Saints", or "the Saints", members of the "Church of Jesus Christ" if anything. This is a respectful request, not a 'demand" as it was so disrespectfully framed. The use of "Mormon" has gone through phases of popularity, however it is both a historic and a modern pejorative, as evidenced here, because mainly it's critics of the church who seem to dislike the request more than anyone.

The words of Pres Nelson and the Style Guide put out by the Church are never this hard-line, and never make these false claims.  https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/style-guide#:~:text=We ask that the term,and should not be used. .

We need to temper our responses to such requested changes with restraint and kindness.  I see nothing at all wrong with this change, nor should we expect full compliance.  There are, after all, a number of denominations of Mormons which are not associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  Moreover, it might not be appropriate to speak of fundamentalist (polygamous) Mormons as "Latter-day Saints."  Same for so-called "Jack-Mormons."  There is nothing at all wrong with the term "Mormon," and we should be proud to be so designated.

[the narrator]

48 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

On 11/22/2024 at 12:08 PM, the narrator said:

Member preference may vary, but leadership demands that “Mormon” not be used, or else.

Nonsense.  This is just silly.

Sure I was being hyperbolic about it, but then so are Church leaders:

Quote

So, dear friends, when coming from our own tongues the use of “Mormonism” is anathema

 

[rodheadlee]

On 11/22/2024 at 10:34 AM, Tony uk said:

Since I joined the forum on Wednesday, I have received a warm welcome. I just wanted to ask. Do members of the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints like to be called Mormon or prefer something else. Also is it Church or Chapel. 

I don't care if you call me Mormon but it's not the Mormon church. I don't worship Mormon. Welcome to the board.

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, the narrator said:

Sure I was being hyperbolic about it, but then so are Church leaders:

Yes.  I see now that we discussed all this back in 2019.

Have there been any excommunications yet based on failure to comply with this rule?  

[manol]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:34 PM, Tony uk said:

Do members of the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints like to be called Mormon or prefer something else.

I tip my virtual hat to you for being so considerate as to ask this question. 

I no longer participate in this or any other religion so my vote doesn't count, but either would probably be fine with me. 

"LDS"... or "Mormon"... is the "language" I'm most fluent in, and this board is the only belief-system-centric board I go to.  Ime the LDS religion has some great teachings.  For instance it teaches and validates "you can ask God and expect an answer" moreso than other religions I've spent time with, and I like that. 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by manol

[Tony uk]

Many thanks for that manol. Sometimes, I tend to say, or write the wrong thing, unintentionally. I try my best not to be disrespectful in anyway if I can help it. Better to be forewarned, 

[webbles]

6 hours ago, the narrator said:

Sure I was being hyperbolic about it, but then so are Church leaders:

 

The full quote is:

Quote

To his counselors and to us in the Quorum of the Twelve, President Russell M. Nelson said of this matter: “While [acknowledging] we have no control over what other people may call us, we cannot call ourselves by any other than the name as prescribed by the Lord.”  To the degree that we tolerate our own use of “Mormon” and “Mormonism,” he continued, “we will be held accountable for this error in nomenclature.”  To a public audience just weeks ago, he said, “The name of the Church is not negotiable.”  So, dear friends, when coming from our own tongues the use of “Mormonism” is anathema and so is “Mormon” as it pertains to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints per se.

See https://mi.byu.edu/00000189-dad5-dc42-a1bf-dfdd19d30001/2018-annual-report on page 14.

That sounds more like, when we (members) talk about the church, we shouldn't call it "Mormon" or "Mormonism".  But we don't demand others to not use the term.  We ask them not to but can't control it.  Our own, personal usage, is something we can control.

Edited November 26, 2024 by webbles

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

The full quote is:

See https://mi.byu.edu/00000189-dad5-dc42-a1bf-dfdd19d30001/2018-annual-report on page 14.

That sounds more like, when we (members) talk about the church, we shouldn't call it "Mormon" or "Mormonism".  But we don't demand others to not use the term.  We ask them not to but can't control it.  Our own, personal usage, is something we can control.

Yes, of course, and I imagine that most Latter-day Saints will comply most of the time.  But it should never become a matter of compelled speech reminiscent of woke demands for proper pronouns.  We do, after all, claim that the U.S. Constitution (including the 1st amendment) is an inspired document.  This tendency toward lock-step terminology may make boors of all of us, and will make it more difficult for writers to express themselves in a deep and meaningful way -- not least from the POV of the Association for Mormon Letters (AML).